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My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:20:37 AM

Capitolisttool

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At some level, I think there is a profound disconnect between the concept of Kink and a D/s relationship. Or maybe I should say BDSM and D/s - the two are not interchangeable concepts, rather distinct and separate ideas. In any relationship, there can be kink, be it vanilla or D/s, so what sets the two apart? My humble opinion is the level or type of power exchange between the two individuals is the initial difference, with the desire to serve or submit being the second denominator. That the two are confused as being the same creates some issues for me, in reading the profiles that I do, and the thoughts expressed in most.

D/s is a lifestyle choice, where two or more (in my case two) people enter into an understanding that one (or more) will live in service, submit, and find pleasure in that submission to the other, this going down the line in a poly house to the extend that there is an Alpha Slave and so forth.

Kink on the other hand is just that, be it bondage or water sports, top or bottom, role play or age play, it is something that occurs in the bedroom (or for those who like risk - on the beach ~grin~) and does not consume more time than the foreplay, the act, and the consummation of such act. Do not get me wrong, I love the kink side, but it should not be confused with the D/s lifestyle.

I add this thought, that sex or kink can be a powerful motivator, a useful tool for control, and a pleasure to both parties, hence its understandable lumping in as part of D/s - but by no means is it the meat of the D/s relationship, rather the icing on the cake.

Post #: 1

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:24:36 AM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Actually I'd say kink and D/s, because d & s are in BDSM. However, although for me, kink is not necessary to feel submissive, I know that for others it is different. I do know people who need the physicality to feel it. And for them the idea of a D/s relationship without the physical enforcement is impossible.

And honestly, I do feel more in tune after a good physical session. If it were entirely mental for me, then we wouldn't ever had had to meet, we could have stayed online.

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(in reply to Capitolisttool)

Post #: 2

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:27:00 AM

Dnomyar

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I agree with Celeste. That a kink is not necessary for submission.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 3

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:41:46 AM

persephonee

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Joined: 12/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitolisttool

Kink on the other hand is just that, be it bondage or water sports, top or bottom, role play or age play, it is something that occurs in the bedroom (or for those who like risk - on the beach ~grin~) and does not consume more time than the foreplay, the act, and the consummation of such act. Do not get me wrong, I love the kink side, but it should not be confused with the D/s lifestyle.

I add this thought, that sex or kink can be a powerful motivator, a useful tool for control, and a pleasure to both parties, hence its understandable lumping in as part of D/s - but by no means is it the meat of the D/s relationship, rather the icing on the cake.

For me, the submission is directly linked to the physical at this point in my life. i identify only as a bottom until such a time as i feel as though im in a position to submit in other ways than sexual. There is submission in the other areas of my life with the partners that i have, but at this point, its almost educational in tone.

One day, when ive "grown up", ill be able to submit fully and know that the path ive chosen is the right one for me. Until then, Vive la difference!

(in reply to Capitolisttool)

Post #: 4

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:56:32 AM

LadyHathor

Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline

by your definition---only. Take D/s in My house where a man submits to a woman----against vanilla standards that is kinky----

Trying to put a solid definition on BDSM is like gaining argeement about what love is.

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

(in reply to Capitolisttool)

Post #: 5

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 5:03:22 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitolisttool

At some level, I think there is a profound disconnect between the concept of Kink and a D/s relationship. Or maybe I should say BDSM and D/s - the two are not interchangeable concepts, rather distinct and separate ideas. In any relationship, there can be kink, be it vanilla or D/s, so what sets the two apart? My humble opinion is the level or type of power exchange between the two individuals is the initial difference, with the desire to serve or submit being the second denominator. That the two are confused as being the same creates some issues for me, in reading the profiles that I do, and the thoughts expressed in most.

D/s is a lifestyle choice, where two or more (in my case two) people enter into an understanding that one (or more) will live in service, submit, and find pleasure in that submission to the other, this going down the line in a poly house to the extend that there is an Alpha Slave and so forth.

Kink on the other hand is just that, be it bondage or water sports, top or bottom, role play or age play, it is something that occurs in the bedroom (or for those who like risk - on the beach ~grin~) and does not consume more time than the foreplay, the act, and the consummation of such act. Do not get me wrong, I love the kink side, but it should not be confused with the D/s lifestyle.

I add this thought, that sex or kink can be a powerful motivator, a useful tool for control, and a pleasure to both parties, hence its understandable lumping in as part of D/s - but by no means is it the meat of the D/s relationship, rather the icing on the cake.

Yeah!!! I like to see someone else post this.
I entered into this lifestyle because I was attracted to the D/s dynamic, period.
I had heard about S/m years ago, and it NEVER appealed to me, as a lifestyle.
When I learned that it was POSSIBLE to have a D/s BASED relationship, I was thrilled!

Many people don't understand the difference.

The main reason I put Female Supremacy on my profile IS to seperate me from the "kinkster" only S/m crew.........., it
is hard to explain that you are really into the D/s dynamic with a touch of S/m, thrown in.

D/s can be lived with a little "kink" , if both parties want to indeed LIVE the lifestyle.
The Dominant and submissive parties have "roles" and are living the lifestyle, and it is not based on the level of "kink" involved!
The way I live THIS lifestyle has little to do with how many "whips" I own, toys, how many ways I have learned to torture you, or bind you, etc. and various
detailed techniques.
**My skill set is a plus, NOT a necessity because our relationship is NOT based on S/m activities!

Imagine that?

It is a D/s power based "relationship" that we live, period. We can live this way,
and only "play" now and then with SATISFACTION and happily "complete and whole" in living a D/s based LIFE.

Thank you so much!!!

p.s.- I realize many if not most here don't view it this way, just understand that a "few of us do.
To each their own!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/26/2008 5:15:18 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Capitolisttool)

Post #: 6

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 5:17:18 AM

Dnomyar

Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
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Lady Hathor that only applys if they are not married.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 7

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 5:31:02 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitolisttool
Kink on the other hand is just that, be it bondage or water sports, top or bottom, role play or age play, it is something that occurs in the bedroom (or for those who like risk - on the beach ~grin~) and does not consume more time than the foreplay, the act, and the consummation of such act. Do not get me wrong, I love the kink side, but it should not be confused with the D/s lifestyle.

I add this thought, that sex or kink can be a powerful motivator, a useful tool for control, and a pleasure to both parties, hence its understandable lumping in as part of D/s - but by no means is it the meat of the D/s relationship, rather the icing on the cake.

I agree. I know several long term couples who are D/s only....no kink. It would not be the perfect dynamic for me but it works well for them. Kink is not required for submission.

quote:

DesFIP
Actually I'd say kink and D/s, because d & s are in BDSM.

There are many of us who don't follow this line of thought and stick with the original definition of BDSM which is Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism. D/s being an entirely seperate thing.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Capitolisttool)

Post #: 8

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 5:46:03 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Actually I'd say kink and D/s, because d & s are in BDSM. However, although for me, kink is not necessary to feel submissive, I know that for others it is different. I do know people who need the physicality to feel it. And for them the idea of a D/s relationship without the physical enforcement is impossible.

And honestly, I do feel more in tune after a good physical session. If it were entirely mental for me, then we wouldn't ever had had to meet, we could have stayed online.

I agree with Celeste. I realize there is a school of thought that doesn't d/s in BDSM but I simply don't agree with them.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 9

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 6:28:29 AM

mistoferin

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I agree with Celeste. I realize there is a school of thought that doesn't d/s in BDSM but I simply don't agree with them.

Guess I was about clear as mud...sorry. I think that many if not most of us who don't see D/s as being a part of BDSM actually include both in our relationship dynamics. It is far more rare to find people who practice no kink....or only kink. While we tend to incorporate both aspects we see them as seperate things that are not dependent upon one another to exist.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 10

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 6:45:05 AM

TracyTaken

Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Do not get me wrong, I love the kink side, but it should not be confused with the D/s lifestyle.

I like confusing them. Confusing them is my kink and also my chosen lifestyle.

There is a lot of white-glove kink out there ... no we're not BDSM, we just like spanking our wives, etc. I find it rather disingenuous, but whatever floats your boat. Likewise Master/slave types who swear they don't do kink ... which makes me wonder why they post to a BDSM board. But, whatever. I suppose any activity is merely that, an activity. Relationships are a bit more complicated. Kink could refer to either though, since it refers to perculiarity.

(in reply to Capitolisttool)

Post #: 11

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 6:46:58 AM

LadyHathor

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Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Lady Hathor that only applys if they are not married.

ohhhh your wit is bang on today Dnomyar---

_____________________________

Lady Hathor, I am the Mistress Hathor of Orleans, I am what I am, often to the dismay and discomfort of others.

(in reply to Dnomyar)

Post #: 12

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 6:59:47 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Guess I was about clear as mud...sorry. I think that many if not most of us who don't see D/s as being a part of BDSM actually include both in our relationship dynamics. It is far more rare to find people who practice no kink....or only kink. While we tend to incorporate both aspects we see them as seperate things that are not dependent upon one another to exist.

Hi erin
I used to be of the mind that BDSM was inclusive of Ds, but not these days. I can see how some people have taken it onboard, but I prefere the basic view of BDSM rather than messing it up with adding this and that - like Ds and Ms. So I am with you on this. Bdsm is about the things done, rather than what people are. I don;t even mix sadism and masochism up with Sadist and masochist. Again, one set is an action and one is an orientation. It just makes it much clearer to me and stops all the confusion that dominants must be this way or slaves must be like that - as you say - not dependant.

Love to you
the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 13

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 8:08:29 AM

lally3

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Joined: 3/4/2008
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when i first started out i tried really hard to find a board that was purely D/s - i never found one. i argued the toss with loads of people on various boards on how D/s is separate from bdsm, but mostly they refused to accept that you could take D/s out of the bdsm equation.

in the end i came to accept that if i wanted a D/s relationship some bdsm would have to be there, which is fine, now, ive been converted

and i wouldnt want just D/s now, it would feel too vanillaesque.

i do separate D/s as the 'filler' dynamic that keeps the TPE ticking and from that the bdsm is a natural progression.

you can have bdsm and no D/s and you can have D/s with no bdsm - i agree. just not my thing.... anymore anyway.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 14

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 9:00:52 AM

Missokyst

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Joined: 9/9/2006
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Ahh... yet another post about how one play is more pure than the next. Ds, bdsm, who cares how people get there? If they enjoy or need the play, or if they do not, it works for them and that is what counts. Why do people feel the need to focus on why the way THEY do things is so much more meaningful than people who are doing it another way?
Kyst

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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

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(in reply to Capitolisttool)

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RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 9:12:53 AM

plushiecat

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Like so many things, it all depends whom you ask. It's only somewhat recently that I've heard it as BDSM and D/s. When I first got interested, I've always heard BDSM as a '3-in-one' abbrieviation (BD DS SM), and I like it that way because I feel it better encompases everything. Why does it need to be separate? You can just take the parts you need/want, and leave the rest, but I don't need to separate. I suppose I agree with DesFIP and AquaticSub on this. :) Can you have submission without the kink? Sure...50's housewives did it all the time. Kink just adds a bit more fun to it. :)

As for whether or not one is somehow better than the other? Hell no. Live your life, and enjoy it. Why compare it to other lives unnecessarily? :)

Hmm...this wasn't supposed to be in reply to Missokyst specifically. >.< Just a post to the topic.

< Message edited by plushiecat -- 3/26/2008 9:14:23 AM >

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 16

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 9:13:30 AM

Daddyslilpookie

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Joined: 3/3/2008
From: OC, California
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I think Missokyst said it best

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Post #: 17

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 10:01:07 AM

Stephann

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From: Portland, OR
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Nah, the OP's accurate (if verbose.) He's not saying there's a better or worse way, he's railing against people who say that one must include kink in a D/s relationship.

Stephan

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Post #: 18

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 10:28:15 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Ahh... yet another post about how one play is more pure than the next. Ds, bdsm, who cares how people get there? If they enjoy or need the play, or if they do not, it works for them and that is what counts. Why do people feel the need to focus on why the way THEY do things is so much more meaningful than people who are doing it another way?
Kyst

I'm with Stephann on this one. I didn't see anyone saying anything about one way or another being more pure or better or more meaningful.

quote:

plushiecat
When I first got interested, I've always heard BDSM as a '3-in-one' abbrieviation (BD DS SM), and I like it that way because I feel it better encompases everything. Why does it need to be separate?

That is cool that you like it that way. I certainly wasn't implying that I felt that you or anyone else needs to seperate it if it suits you just fine the way you view it. What I was trying to say is that for "some" people (like myself) who started out PRIOR to the acronym being split in 3, or even prior to the very birth of the acronym BDSM, D/s is not an inclusive part of the acronym itself. Although many of the same people include the D/s or M/s aspect in their relationships, we simply don't see it as part of the acronym.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 19

RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 10:37:44 AM

colouredin

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Hehe I so wanna be all semantic now BDSM to me is the umbrella term, it for me stands for Bondage Discipline, Dominance, Submission, Sadism, Masochism. But if I take the other way that you say it, D/s doesnt need kink well yeah D s is the power exchange, one is in the position of power one isnt, simple as (I always had a big problem with people saying ohh ill spank you for that, heheh your a sub you'll like it, well no actually being a sub is nothing to do with liking pain) I mean I like to mix it all up, but the strict definitions fair enough.

The problem to me is that we seem to apply value judgements to the words, slave being better than sub etc for example, I have a friend who refers to herself as a slave by her own admission she isnt submissive she is a masochist and almost dominant in her masochism but her own value judgement means that she would never actally change the label she has given to herself because for her slave means that shes more whatever. Sad really.

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(in reply to Capitolisttool)

Post #: 20

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