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RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 12:10:22 PM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		Now to me, I don't put the D/s with the BD-DS-SM format.  It's completely separate in my mind.  I am a bottom, I participate in bdsm.  I am not a sub with a Dom.  I think that D/s is more of a headspace, and WIITIAm, whereas bdsm is WIITIDo.  Totally separate for me.  You can have one without the other or a combination of the two.

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RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 12:36:22 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		My question is that if it does not include any kink, what makes it ds?  Why isn't it vanilla?  Plenty of people still do the traditional style of one person in charge in a relationship.  Yet they do not think they are engaging in some abberant lifestyle. 
Why attach a label associated with kink to something that in so much of the world is still traditional and normal?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Nah, the OP's accurate (if verbose.)  He's not saying there's a better or worse way, he's railing against people who say that one must include kink in a D/s relationship.

Stephan



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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 12:43:45 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

My question is that if it does not include any kink, what makes it ds?  Why isn't it vanilla?  Plenty of people still do the traditional style of one person in charge in a relationship.  Yet they do not think they are engaging in some abberant lifestyle. 
Why attach a label associated with kink to something that in so much of the world is still traditional and normal?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Nah, the OP's accurate (if verbose.)  He's not saying there's a better or worse way, he's railing against people who say that one must include kink in a D/s relationship.

Stephan




I would view people who intentionally live like Ward and June from Leave it to Beaver to be D/s, without being kinky.  A dominant/submissive relationship reflects the acknowledged power structure of the relationship, not the activity part.  Typically, we tend to consider kink to be something you do (or things you do that you enjoy) and almost being synonymous with BDSM activities, as opposed to Dominant/submissive lifestyles.

Goreans would be a good example of this; often engaging in D/s relationships, without embracing any of the 'kink' usually associated with D/s.

Again, these are generalities.  When I met my first slave at a party, flirted with her for three hours, and then commanded her "Kiss me" it wasn't kinky.  It was a dominant act, she submitted to that demand, and we kissed.  The first time we had sex, I choked her and she loved it.  That would be kinky.  If I never engaged in the choking, spanking, belting aspect of our relationship, our relationship would have been D/s and not kinky.

Hope that illustrates my point better.

Stephan


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RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 12:45:21 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
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From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I a kink is not necessary for submission.



yup.. i am vanilla...i just hang around with Y'all perverts  to bag me a decent Dominant ... I pretend to like all that kinky stuff ... but really ... I'd just rather get into twin beds, one for me one for Master, say my prayers and drift off to sleep safe in the knowledge its 3 weeks until our next shag.



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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 12:45:43 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Because there isn't any seperation between vanilla and ds?
There is no seperation except what a handful of people put on it.  There are levels of kinkiness in ALL life.  From the couple who get it on after a good meal and candles to the two dudettes who get it on after a thrashing.
 
I never got from the OP that he was saying one was better than the other, just that they exist seperately.
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 12:47:30 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Lady Hathor that only applys if they are not married.


 ha ha ha ha ha - yes those poor vanilla sub men -

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:02:19 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_859957/mpage_1/key_bdsm/tm.htm#860025
Ds and BDSM:  There's a difference!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1373332/mpage_1/key_bdsm/tm.htm#1373598
bdsm umbrella...or NOT

http://www.collarchat.com/m_794045/mpage_2/key_umbrella/tm.htm#794492
ds vs bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_616573/mpage_1/key_umbrella/tm.htm#616591
ds as bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_592203/mpage_1/key_umbrella/tm.htm#592271
watered down bdsm


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:12:01 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		My parents were non kinky sort.  Yet my mom served my father without question.. well.. at least until the early 70's when rebellion occured.  There was no acknowlegement of the fact that he was the bread winner and therefore held the power.  It was just life.  That is just how things happened.  I can almost gaurantee she got no sexual charge from play.  The woman never saw the point of sex at all, besides having children.
I think my issue with people needing to put a label on non kink ds being ds, and not nilla is that it assumes that somehow THAT is better.  Almost like being nilla is an insult and being submissive is more elevated.
Nilla works in many cultures, and has for many centuries.  I never understood why people would find that so offensive that they needed to assign it into another catagory so they can find enjoyment in it again.
I give my power because it gets me wet.  I love being molested, grabbed, fondled, pushed, man-handled, taken, which is a power thing, because it makes me hot.  Daily catering to my mate is nice, but it is not what makes me wet.  What makes me wet is knowing that what I have is his to take.  And the fact that he knows that and just takes,.. that is what makes it kinky.
I could do nilla and be happy, but I might never get that wet.
Kyst


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 4:51:44 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

There are many of us who don't follow this line of thought and stick with the original definition of BDSM which is Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism. D/s being an entirely seperate thing.


Really? Simply because the letters are in there, I think mostly people do include it. But nowhere does it say you have to do all of it to be into  BDSM. We're d/s and bondage. No discipline or s & m. I know, I know, I'm a freak!

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 5:42:00 PM   
Capitolisttool


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/8/2004
Status: offline 		Missokyst, This post has nothing to do with purity, rather that there is a dsitinction between the two, the one is not the other.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 5:58:52 PM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitolisttool

Missokyst, This post has nothing to do with purity, rather that there is a dsitinction between the two, the one is not the other.


The sepal is not the petal then?

(in reply to Capitolisttool)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 6:27:52 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I agree with Celeste. I realize there is a school of thought that doesn't d/s in BDSM but I simply don't agree with them.


Guess I was about clear as mud...sorry. I think that many if not most of us who don't see D/s as being a part of BDSM actually include both in our relationship dynamics. It is far more rare to find people who practice no kink....or only kink. While we tend to incorporate both aspects we see them as seperate things that are not dependent upon one another to exist.


I believe I understand where you are coming from. I just don't agree with you. I prefer the "Bondage & Discipline, Domination & Submission, and Sadism & Masochism." I realize the defination is newer, I simply don't think the old one is better.

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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 6:54:03 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitolisttool

Missokyst, This post has nothing to do with purity, rather that there is a dsitinction between the two, the one is not the other.


for YOU.. please remember that.. for YOU

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/26/2008 6:56:14 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitolisttool

Missokyst, This post has nothing to do with purity, rather that there is a dsitinction between the two, the one is not the other.


I totally agree with you and most that have posted.
There are always those, who insist on creating drama, where there is NO drama.
I did not see any posts saying one way was better than other way.
 
Your OP, is mentioning the fact, WE EXIST!
It is as simple as THAT.
I don't see anybody "knocking" how others live, but we do have a right to say, we exist,
and people can live this lifestyle, DIFFERENTLY.
great thread.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/27/2008 3:41:40 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		kink is a shit word...it confuses the hell out of me. I don't see things I do as a kink. I just like them.
Kink I use for things others do and I don't practice myself..... it sounds like "see those weirdo's"

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/27/2008 5:24:10 AM   
Capitolisttool


Posts: 3
Joined: 7/8/2004
Status: offline 		TracyTaken,
My answer would be, can you have a D/s relationship without kink? Yes. Can you have Kink with out D/s? Yes. Does kink enhance a relationship? Depends on the individuals involved. My point was that D/s is not about kinky sex, rather about the power exchange that occures between two or more people. My Father was born in 1917, a British Officer, with VERY victorian attitudes. Did he and my mother have a D/s relationship? With out a doubt, did it involve kink? I have no clue and dont want to know ~smile~
To put it another way, I'll have an order of D/s, please, with a side of bondage and a larger order of kink, to go!

< Message edited by Capitolisttool -- 3/27/2008 5:25:15 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/27/2008 6:08:26 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

kink is a shit word...it confuses the hell out of me. I don't see things I do as a kink. I just like them.
Kink I use for things others do and I don't practice myself..... it sounds like "see those weirdo's"


I agree with you.. I've never much cared for the words kink or kinky...

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 3/27/2008 6:19:20 AM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline 		I think its all a matter of personal opinion and preference. Not just in BDsM but in our world in general. Its all about perception.
my 2 cents


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 5/20/2008 10:01:03 PM   
plushiecat


Posts: 109
Joined: 12/18/2005
Status: offline 		I have heard that BDSM as the 3-in-one came first...so, I am now curious to see if anyone has any dates to show what one really did come first...the abbrieviation a s the 3-in-one...or just the 2?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: My thoughts on Kink vs D/s - 5/20/2008 10:35:15 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I prefere the basic view of BDSM rather than messing it up with adding this and that - like Ds and Ms.  So I am with you on this.  Bdsm is about the things done, rather than what people are.  I don;t even mix sadism and masochism up with Sadist and masochist.  Again, one set is an action and one is an orientation.  It just makes it much clearer to me and stops all the confusion that dominants must be this way or slaves must be like that - as you say - not dependant.
 
Love to you
the.dark.

This is the same way i look at it and honestly, i had no idea the two had gotten mixed together until i started getting on the internet.  i don't know when or why they got blended, other than, perhaps someone might have noticed the D and the S in the middle of BD/SM (Bondage&Discipline / Sadomasochism), and thought that they stood for D/s (Dominant/submissive).
 
Also, i would love for you to say more about the differences between sadists and sadism and also masochists and masochism.  Maybe you could post a new thread on that topic, if you feel like it.
 
Actually, i have had kinky sex, including B&D, with non-dominant men and i have been with some Dominant men who only had vanilla sex.  And, there were a few Dominant men who only dominated me during sexual activities, which included BD/SM but, they were far from being D/s relationships.
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David
 

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 5/20/2008 10:43:15 PM >

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 40
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