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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 12:02:45 AM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		This along the same lines as what Lucky said,

I am a maso, and I have been punished with pain before. Knowing Sir was upset with me dident put me in my "pain is pleasure" head space. The head space I got from that was "this is not for your enjoyment, this is not for My enjoyment, this is because you stepped over the line, this is a punishment, and you deserve it"

I was completely throughly chastised, I've never forgotten it and I never will. The MEANING behind what was happening, the thought that I ever ever upset him in the slightest way, I was completely broken by that fact I did something wrong, and I have never done it again. At the end I was begging Him to not turn me away for that infraction, not to take my collar...anything anything to appease him. God....even thinking about it almost brings a girl to tears.


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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 8:01:19 AM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		That's a very good point you make. Just knowing you've upset your Master and he responds with physical punishment does change the dynamic a bit. Thank you.

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 9:50:49 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Question for the op. When talking with your Dom do you talk in circles. Thats a quick way to drive someone up a wall.

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 9:58:14 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Dnomyar, hmmmm.. yea. probably. i have a tendency to change topics several times midsentence. If he was really bothered by it, i suspect i'd get beaten for it, instead of laughed at. Sometimes i throw in obscure references and he just keeps nodding and saying, 'uh-huh', so he may have perfected the self protective tactic of listening - uhm... less than all the time. (beer and naked women)
i really do my best to keep posts, or at least serious ones, on track and orderly. i spell check twice and reread and try to see if i could make something clearer. obviously i fail sometimes... apologies.

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 11:55:39 AM   
Exquemelin


Posts: 113
Joined: 2/2/2007
From: CT
Status: offline 		Well they're a masochist, so why not no pain play for a week or some such?

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 3:20:52 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

...
I was completely throughly chastised, I've never forgotten it and I never will. The MEANING behind what was happening, the thought that I ever ever upset him in the slightest way, I was completely broken by that fact I did something wrong, and I have never done it again. At the end I was begging Him to not turn me away for that infraction, not to take my collar...anything anything to appease him. God....even thinking about it almost brings a girl to tears.



That word, Meaning, comes up so seldom here.  Thank you.

So many people still choose to see punishment in Behavioristic terms. People aren't lab rats.

The most curious thing to me in these discussions is the prevalance of a certain asymmetry. People generally understand that you can reward with pain. Many have a harder time grasping that you can just as well punish with pleasure.

A person brought to a contrition of  tears and nausea by a taste of her favorite dessert, carefully prepared and lovingly presented, can be said to have explored the punishment dynamic, I think.

Those who don't get how this works might want to keep one thing in mind: you don't get how this works.

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 4:06:10 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
So many people still choose to see punishment in Behavioristic terms. People aren't lab rats.

But they really are on so many levels.

quote:

A person brought to a contrition of  tears and nausea by a taste of her favorite dessert, carefully prepared and lovingly presented, can be said to have explored the punishment dynamic, I think.

Those who don't get how this works might want to keep one thing in mind: you don't get how this works.

This is just as behavioristic as anything- same principles, just different formats.

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 4:36:35 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
So many people still choose to see punishment in Behavioristic terms. People aren't lab rats.

But they really are on so many levels.

quote:

A person brought to a contrition of  tears and nausea by a taste of her favorite dessert, carefully prepared and lovingly presented, can be said to have explored the punishment dynamic, I think.

Those who don't get how this works might want to keep one thing in mind: you don't get how this works.

This is just as behavioristic as anything- same principles, just different formats.


I didn't mean behavioristic in the sense of having something to do with behavior. I capitalized the word so as to refer to the roundly discredited theories of human Behavioral Psychology.

You can choose to reduce anything to any set of terms you choose. Marxist political, Keynesian economic, Inuit spiritual, Astrological, Phrenological, you name it.

That you can reduce a thing to a favorite set of terms is no strong case for saying that this is what it "is". Reducing phenomena to a set of terms rejected after decades of careful experimental testing by the people who first gave us the theory in question yields a particularly weak claim that this what it "is", in my view.






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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/27/2008 7:04:11 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		.


< Message edited by Noah -- 3/27/2008 7:11:12 PM >

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/28/2008 4:47:49 PM   
MasochistToy


Posts: 21
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

I cant imagine anything more nuclear than voicing my disappointment. Fox is a maso, and i have just had to SOUND upset to bring him to the brink of tears.


As a perfectionist, just being looked at with a frown, just being told I was disappointing, just that sharp note in his voice is enough to crush me. Also, as a pleaser there is nothing that makes me happier than pleasing Daddy sexually. I get nearly as much satisfaction out of sex when I don't cum as long as I know Daddy was "pleased'. So denying me his orgasm is another form of punishment.

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/30/2008 10:32:11 AM   
loragirl


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/28/2006
Status: offline 		How often is the punishment a closure for the sub rather than the Dom?

My Dom and I both know that it's enough for me to know that I've let him down and it involves a discussion about what happened and why. He is clear that this is the end of the matter and no further action is required.

However, sometimes I NEED punishing. The normal discussion isn't enough. I feel guilt and other negative emotions until I am punished. I know in my mind that by doing this, I am taking control back from Him, but I still feel in need of punishment before I can let go.

Occasionally He will indulge me and punish me but He is clear that by not letting go of an incident, I am making a bigger mistake, making Him more unhappy because I am not following His wishes.

sigh

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/30/2008 11:51:12 AM   
AuroraKitten


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/28/2008
Status: offline 		I'm sort of new to this lifestyle, but in my opinion, the best(worst) punishment I've ever gotten was to be denied orgasm for a night.

-Aurora

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RE: Punishing a Masochist - 3/30/2008 1:51:43 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loragirl
However, sometimes I NEED punishing. The normal discussion isn't enough. I feel guilt and other negative emotions until I am punished. I know in my mind that by doing this, I am taking control back from Him, but I still feel in need of punishment before I can let go.

Occasionally He will indulge me and punish me but He is clear that by not letting go of an incident, I am making a bigger mistake, making Him more unhappy because I am not following His wishes.

sigh

Thanks for pointing out this perspective.  It gets even more complicated when a sub is so starved or insecure for attention that they misbehave in order to GET the punishment that they need to feel catharsis and closure.  Very bad cycle there.

It would be extremely rare for me to punish someone because they NEEDED it for their own closure.  I'd much  more address the need for closure and guilt itself and try to relinquish that waste of time and energy first.

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Profile   Post #: 33
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