RE: Religious Incompatibility

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girlfrom60s -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (3/28/2008 3:46:57 AM)
I have lived that scenario for the past several years. I, a christian, like You who does not follow an organized religion, and the One I served who had not any interest in faith or spirituality. There were many terrible jokes criticizing God and/or Jesus, and organized faith. I learned to ignore it, but on the inside in contributed to a lot of my anger and resentment toward Him.

adoracat -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (3/28/2008 4:41:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel I think it might have been on our second or third date, He asked me if I had a problem with Him being a Pagan. I smiled and replied, "No. Do you have a problem with me being a Christian?" He grinned and said "No". And here we are...... [:)] nods that's pretty much the same conversation i had with Daddy and with TheEngineer also. kitten

Wheldrake -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (3/28/2008 11:44:39 AM)
As a thoroughly convinced atheist and rationalist, I find it impossible to "respect" religion and still feel that I'm being intellectually honest. I do appreciate the beauty and complexity of nature, not to mention art, literature and science, and I can look up into a starry sky and feel a kind of awe and reverence for the grandeur of the universe. I suppose that makes me a spiritual person, according to some definitions that have been put forward on this thread, but I would rather say that those experiences are emotional and aesthetic ones. I certainly don't see any evidence for a guiding will or a higher power behind the workings of the cosmos. I could probably submit to a very religious dominant, provided she didn't expect to actually change my mind. If she allowed me to express my opinions about her beliefs, I would probably end up telling her now and then that I thought they were completely unfounded. It would be an interesting act of submission to have to go through the motions of religious rituals or spiritual exercises such as meditation, as long as it was understood that I was participating under duress and didn't really believe a word of whatever hymn or mantra I was chanting. However, I can't imagine that many Dominants of Faith would want or require that sort of thing in any case.

sabis -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (3/30/2008 6:30:34 PM)
Back in the days of our courtship, before my (now) husband and Owner and I had ever met, we discussed a variety of things. Me: I'm a spiritualist, tree-hugging Pagan. Him: I'm a Methodist. Me: I am a non-smoker, and it would break my heart to date a smoker. Him: Pass me the Marlboros. Me: I'm a liberal. Him: I'm a Republican. Me: I'm a feminist. Him: That's nice. I'm gonna spank your ass anyway. I'm in charge. In so very many, so very big ways, we are exact opposites. Guess what? It can still work out. We're happily together eight years later. We agree to disagree on some topics, and I use my submission to him to mentally help me work through others. In His service, ~sabis owned by Cumulus

catize -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (3/30/2008 7:02:00 PM)
Nor would I be compatible with a dominant who required me to expend effort in spiritual development.

sapphirepleasure -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (3/30/2008 7:18:46 PM)
~FR~ I am quite spiritual but definitely not into organized religion, being a recovering fundamentalist preacher's daughter. [:D] I've found that I am not compatible with a hardcore athiest because in my experience they tend to make light of and mock my spiritual beliefs. I also am not compatible with someone who is very conservative religiously because my path includes things such as reiki, tarot and other forms of divination which don't seem to be tolerated by conservative folks.

TracyTaken -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (3/30/2008 9:17:36 PM)
I think it's important. I've been around the bend a few times, and when you say "religous" and "spiritual," to me it's a question of "Why do we live; why do we choose life and then make the choices we do in life?" Those are very important questions, and they get more important as life stretches out. I could not relate to someone who had definite ideas about "after life" or "deity/ies" or who thought that morality is based in some ancient book. I would have a hard time - as a life partner - taking such a person seriously. It would be difficult to be supportive, in the hardest of times, if my most intimate relationship required me to quash my deepest beliefs. I wouldn't want my partner to have to do that either.

CountrySong -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 12:19:08 AM)
This is a refreshing topic, and one which I frequently wonder about. I am Mormon by belief (obviously there is some incongruity with my actions), and it's difficult, especially in Utah, to find someone interesting and compatible that either a) shares the same beliefs, or b) respects them. It hurts my heart to have my beliefs belittled by the person I love, and I would never dream of perpetuating that. I'm still trying to strike a balance...and settling for non-believers in the meantime. I feel for you. I was married to a Mormon for a time. I'm a very liberal Christian. The first thing that happened was that the bishop called her in and told her not to marry me. The next thing that happened was one of her brothers and his wife stopped talking to her and said she was no longer welcome in their home. After that did not work and we got married anyway, then they went to work on me trying very hard to convert me. You should have seen the looks I got when I showed up at the hall/meeting house (?) with a 6 inch thick parallel Bible. It got so bad that I actually told her family that I was converting to Atheism. (That went over well.) I said that because I did what they asked - I studied their texts and the Bible and my science background picked both totally apart (There are over 100 major mistakes in the bible so it's the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth does not stand for me.) and for awhile I did lose my faith. They really did not like that!! (I remember questioning one of the elders about a statement that used the word Iron but was supposed to have come from a time when Iron did not exist in the Americas or the ancient world. He was one unhappy camper and just kept saying things like "If you just open your heart you will see the truth.") My interest in the lifestyle was also a major issue to her. Eventually we split. It took me years to regain my faith and I only did it by looking at some of the other Christian sects and texts like the Gnostics and Thomasians. I've since been with other people of other faiths and as long as they don't want me to bow to their version of God I'm okay being with them. (One partner wanted me to crawl on a stage and bow before an Hindu living saint. I told her I only bow to one LORD. She was not a happy camper and sulked for a long time about it.) However, I've decided to limit my TPE or 24/7 search to Christians, Agnostics, Native American Faiths, and Buddists because I want kids. Once you add kids to the mix the dynamics change. For example, as a Mormon your family would probably want the kids to go through the temple with all of the secret cerimoneis therein. As a Dom and their father I would have major issues with that. I hope you find a solution that works for you and brings you lifestyle and religious peace. It seams that playing together is easier then living together.

ZenDragoness -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 2:19:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CountrySong snip It seams that playing together is easier then living together. snip CountrySong, i found your whole post very interesting. Good to know that you found a way to regain your faith. But your parting sentence is simply great. Ruth

MsHonor -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 3:13:09 AM)
One person (OmegaG) says "atheists are theists too" and SixFootMaster says "Connection with nature is definitely a form of spirituality." and "A person lacking in spirituality is... incapable of appreciating greater nobility and beauty in the world at large" No undue offense intended, but both remind me on a line in The Princess Bride: "You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means." Atheists are most certainly not theists. In fact, oddly enough, not being a theist is the sole qualification for being an "atheist". "Deist" means you believe in a creator who does not intervene in the universe. "Theist" means you believe in a creator who does intervene. "Atheist" means you believe there is no such creator. "Spirituality" is a belief that the "spirit" or "soul" exists, distinct from physical matter. "Religion" is a system or doctrine of worship of a superhuman power or authority, most usually, specifically a god or gods. Many religions include a doctrine of spirituality, but the two are absolutely not the same thing, nor is spirituality synonymous with - nor the lack thereof mutually exclusive with - a sense of wonder and beauty. As a partial agreement with the general tone of the thread, I do think the question of religion, spirituality, and political philosophy are rather important to identify early on... Particularly if you're not the sort who's happy with a "live and let live" course of action on such things. To me "live and let live" is for things like "I like broccoli and you don't" or "You like Monet, and I think he sucked.", not things like "I live in a world of rational reality and you base important decisions on superstition and nonsense." I have it listed in my profile journal posts as something a submissive should carefully consider before contacting me, and I may edit it sometime to make it even more clear and strident. Along with basic (and, I would think, obvious) requirements of loyalty and ethical fitness, I require a high degree of functional intelligence, logical capacity, ability to learn, and open-mindedness... Although it's important that the latter not be confused with starry-eyed gullibility or empty-headed credulity. In early acquainting conversations, I tell any prospective submissive that religion and politics will be discussed, and I will not shy away from calling illogical, irrational, or outright silly ideas anything but what they are. My slaves are not required to agree with me, but they are required to formulate a rational argument to defend their position when they don't... And, sometimes, even when they do. I don't allow taboo subjects, and I don't "agree to disagree." - all that means is either that one of us can't defend her position, or one of us doesn't consider the other's ideas worthy of due consideration. They will be expected to eloquently and rigorously defend any philosophy or belief they hold to, just as they will be expected to honestly argue any of my positions that they disagree with. There will be frank discussion, and there will likely be harsh humor. I have a robust and direct sense of humor, and if the perpetrators and willing subjects of the oldest and most widely duplicated con-game in human history, responsible for more pain and suffering than any other sociological device ever created aren't worthy of derision, I don't know what possibly could be. Not all ideas are equal in value. The fact that someone "believes" an idea doesn't make it automatically worthy of reverence and respect. Any "belief" that can't be defended isn't worth the space it's taking up in your head.

slavegirljoy -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:07:24 PM)
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers..." -- 2 Corinthians 6:14 To me, this means that if you want to form a satisfying union or partnership with someone, you can achieve a more positive outcome when you share a common communion of faith. It's easier to work more effectively together, as a united team, when you are walking together in faith. There's not so much turmoil, friction, and disharmony when you are both matched in your spititual beliefs. Personally, i have always had a strong Christian faith and i have never bowed down and laid at the feet of any man who would not bow down and lay at the feet of Christ. That's not to say that we have to be members of the same church or that he has to belong to any church, but i can't submit to any man unless and until he submits to God and accepts Christ as his personal savior. joy Owned servant of Master David quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann I'm a very spiritual person. I don't follow any form of organized religion. I don't have a personal investment in my slave's specific religious beliefs. Yet I will never be involved with a woman who doesn't share an interest in spiritualism again. I would be incompatible with an athiest who doesn't respect my expectations for her emotional and spiritual development. Stephan

CountrySong -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:24:16 PM)
I have a robust and direct sense of humor, and if the perpetrators and willing subjects of the oldest and most widely duplicated con-game in human history, responsible for more pain and suffering than any other sociological device ever created aren't worthy of derision, I don't know what possibly could be. I assume your talking about religion and a God being a con-game and responsible for more pain and suffering than any other sociological device? I used to think about it in that manner especially when thinking about things like the crusades, European witch hunts, etc. However, when you really look at the fact those things have very little to do with faith and a lot to do with power and the accumulation of wealth by those willing to twist belief systems for their own benefit - which also happens in Atheist societies as in China and the USSR. The real truth is that people who strongly believe in their faith and practice it are happier overall than most who do not have a strong faith. (That is based on the positive psychology studies and the two national poles on happiness.) So actually when you look at the total sum of humanity faith has been much more beneficial than harmful. A strong faith fills many of the social and emotional needs of a person. Just like a good Dom(me) fills the needs of a sub. I lost my faith because I was a scientist. I regained it with three questions: What did my lord – Christ do? According to the traditional bible he – healed, fed the hungry, and brought hope to the hopeless. According to the other texts he did those things and also brought enlightenment. Those are things I believe are worth so he is a worthy lord and I have no issues following his lead. If I die and it’s over, then nothing lost. I still did a lot of good with my life. If I die and that is not the end then it’s a heck of a deal. ;-) Is there a heaven? That one was tough. However, I had to ask myself if I had the power to make a heaven would I? The answer was yes – just to see my Grandma again I would. So is there a possibility that a higher intelligence would do that and has the power too. I had to answer yes to that also as we are approaching the point where we will be able to basically do that for humans. (Look up The Singularity online – interesting and scary.) We also know that time travel is theoretically possible so who knows maybe it’s some future US or just some really nice alien intelligence. Could some entity have planned the universe and even the creation of life? Sure. It’s all based on mathematics. Create event AKA big bang. X+y=z. Eventually, odds are that life will come into being. Set up a system to check for life and let you know what’s happening in your creation (sub atomic particles). Peace

HerLord -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:39:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CountrySong I have a robust and direct sense of humor, and if the perpetrators and willing subjects of the oldest and most widely duplicated con-game in human history, responsible for more pain and suffering than any other sociological device ever created aren't worthy of derision, I don't know what possibly could be. I assume your talking about religion and a God being a con-game and responsible for more pain and suffering than any other sociological device? I used to think about it in that manner especially when thinking about things like the crusades, European witch hunts, etc. However, when you really look at the fact those things have very little to do with faith and a lot to do with power and the accumulation of wealth by those willing to twist belief systems for their own benefit - which also happens in Atheist societies as in China and the USSR. The real truth is that people who strongly believe in their faith and practice it are happier overall than most who do not have a strong faith. (That is based on the positive psychology studies and the two national poles on happiness.) So actually when you look at the total sum of humanity faith has been much more beneficial than harmful. A strong faith fills many of the social and emotional needs of a person. Just like a good Dom(me) fills the needs of a sub. I lost my faith because I was a scientist. I regained it with three questions: What did my lord – Christ do? According to the traditional bible he – healed, fed the hungry, and brought hope to the hopeless. According to the other texts he did those things and also brought enlightenment. Those are things I believe are worth so he is a worthy lord and I have no issues following his lead. If I die and it’s over, then nothing lost. I still did a lot of good with my life. If I die and that is not the end then it’s a heck of a deal. ;-) Is there a heaven? That one was tough. However, I had to ask myself if I had the power to make a heaven would I? The answer was yes – just to see my Grandma again I would. So is there a possibility that a higher intelligence would do that and has the power too. I had to answer yes to that also as we are approaching the point where we will be able to basically do that for humans. (Look up The Singularity online – interesting and scary.) We also know that time travel is theoretically possible so who knows maybe it’s some future US or just some really nice alien intelligence. Could some entity have planned the universe and even the creation of life? Sure. It’s all based on mathematics. Create event AKA big bang. X+y=z. Eventually, odds are that life will come into being. Set up a system to check for life and let you know what’s happening in your creation (sub atomic particles). Peace This, Country, may be the MOST resounding argument I have ever heard for the ramblings of the money hungry. Putting them out of it, and listening to your words, within the context of my thoughs, and you could almost call your self a converter. Almost. But I will think on them some more, probably for some time. Thank you.

Monkeyontuesday -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:40:15 PM)
tips her hat Very well said, MsHonor. And I especially love you for the Princess Bride reference. Just what I was thinking. [:D]

MzMia -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:40:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann I'm a very spiritual person. I don't follow any form of organized religion. I don't have a personal investment in my slave's specific religious beliefs. Yet I will never be involved with a woman who doesn't share an interest in spiritualism again. I would be incompatible with an athiest who doesn't respect my expectations for her emotional and spiritual development. Stephan You have stated very well, exactly how I feel. I could not see myself in a long term serious relationship, with an athiest or anyone remotely similar. This is one area, that people often need to be thinking on a similar wave length. Great post, as usual Stephann.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:41:58 PM)
One of the things my Sir and I talked about at our first meeting was religion/spirituality - which shows me that it was very important to both of us that we be compatable. And we are - thank Goddess!!! There are those in the world that need organised structure, and those that don't. I did, and now I don't. One isn't better than the other, they just are.

puppy4owner -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:43:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsHonor One person (OmegaG) says "atheists are theists too" and SixFootMaster says "Connection with nature is definitely a form of spirituality." and "A person lacking in spirituality is... incapable of appreciating greater nobility and beauty in the world at large" No undue offense intended, but both remind me on a line in The Princess Bride: "You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means." Atheists are most certainly not theists. In fact, oddly enough, not being a theist is the sole qualification for being an "atheist". "Deist" means you believe in a creator who does not intervene in the universe. "Theist" means you believe in a creator who does intervene. "Atheist" means you believe there is no such creator. "Spirituality" is a belief that the "spirit" or "soul" exists, distinct from physical matter. "Religion" is a system or doctrine of worship of a superhuman power or authority, most usually, specifically a god or gods. Many religions include a doctrine of spirituality, but the two are absolutely not the same thing, nor is spirituality synonymous with - nor the lack thereof mutually exclusive with - a sense of wonder and beauty. As a partial agreement with the general tone of the thread, I do think the question of religion, spirituality, and political philosophy are rather important to identify early on... Particularly if you're not the sort who's happy with a "live and let live" course of action on such things. To me "live and let live" is for things like "I like broccoli and you don't" or "You like Monet, and I think he sucked.", not things like "I live in a world of rational reality and you base important decisions on superstition and nonsense." I have it listed in my profile journal posts as something a submissive should carefully consider before contacting me, and I may edit it sometime to make it even more clear and strident. Along with basic (and, I would think, obvious) requirements of loyalty and ethical fitness, I require a high degree of functional intelligence, logical capacity, ability to learn, and open-mindedness... Although it's important that the latter not be confused with starry-eyed gullibility or empty-headed credulity. In early acquainting conversations, I tell any prospective submissive that religion and politics will be discussed, and I will not shy away from calling illogical, irrational, or outright silly ideas anything but what they are. My slaves are not required to agree with me, but they are required to formulate a rational argument to defend their position when they don't... And, sometimes, even when they do. I don't allow taboo subjects, and I don't "agree to disagree." - all that means is either that one of us can't defend her position, or one of us doesn't consider the other's ideas worthy of due consideration. They will be expected to eloquently and rigorously defend any philosophy or belief they hold to, just as they will be expected to honestly argue any of my positions that they disagree with. There will be frank discussion, and there will likely be harsh humor. I have a robust and direct sense of humor, and if the perpetrators and willing subjects of the oldest and most widely duplicated con-game in human history, responsible for more pain and suffering than any other sociological device ever created aren't worthy of derision, I don't know what possibly could be. Not all ideas are equal in value. The fact that someone "believes" an idea doesn't make it automatically worthy of reverence and respect. Any "belief" that can't be defended isn't worth the space it's taking up in your head. brilliant,very well said.Religion has become the evil it professes to be fighting against,taking money from mostly poor,uneducated people with very little understanding of science and recent discoveries,particularly genetics to trace our ancestry very far back.Many have heard that 98% of our genes are the same as monkeys but did you know 40% of our genes are shared with lettuce?

MzMia -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:45:54 PM)
I enjoyed reading your post, MsHonor. I am not easily impressed, but I was more than impressed with what your wrote. You have given me a few thoughts to ponder, I have never seen anyone give the definition of an aethist that you gave. Such wonderful and deep thoughts. I am hoping that you will be posting a lot more around here. [;)] I agree with the last 3 posters, you are brilliant, and hot too![:D]

HerLord -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 5:56:52 PM)
Ms Honor... I am copying this to my drive with your name/nick for later referal. On my word, It will not leave my drive. These words are brilliant. I wish to not soon forget them. Plz let me know if this is offensive to you, and I will undue c/p. Outside of this, I'm typeless. (since I'm not actually speaking)

aBondageTop -> RE: Religious Incompatibility (4/2/2008 6:22:35 PM)
I am an atheist. I do not date women who believe in magic of any kind: Christianity, Islam, Wicca, or homeopathy. Still, I am a spiritual person, full of the wonder of it all. My feelings were well-expressed by Peter Mayer in his song Holy Now When I was a boy, each week On Sunday, we would go to church And pay attention to the priest He would read the holy word And consecrate the holy bread And everyone would kneel and bow Today the only difference is Everything is holy now Everything, everything Everything is holy now When I was in Sunday school We would learn about the time Moses split the sea in two Jesus made the water wine And I remember feeling sad That miracles don’t happen still But now I can’t keep track ‘Cause everything’s a miracle Everything, Everything Everything’s a miracle Wine from water is not so small But an even better magic trick Is that anything is here at all So the challenging thing becomes Not to look for miracles But finding where there isn’t one When holy water was rare at best It barely wet my fingertips But now I have to hold my breath Like I’m swimming in a sea of it It used to be a world half there Heaven’s second rate hand-me-down But I walk it with a reverent air ‘Cause everything is holy now Everything, everything Everything is holy now Read a questioning child’s face And say it’s not a testament That’d be very hard to say See another new morning come And say it’s not a sacrament I tell you that it can’t be done This morning, outside I stood And saw a little red-winged bird Shining like a burning bush Singing like a scripture verse It made me want to bow my head I remember when church let out How things have changed since then Everything is holy now It used to be a world half-there Heaven’s second rate hand-me-down Now I walk it with a reverent air ‘Cause everything is holy now

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