RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/6/2005 9:15:15 AM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
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quote:

Some might think the calm and composed manner in which you've handled yourself here are excellent Dom traits - and others might be thinking sociopath! Tomato, tomarto, whatever, such a pity you've brought your misogynous ideals into this particular thread....

Having been involved in discussion groups with Soulhuntre since... oh, somewhere around mid-1997, I've always found the knee-jerk reactions of people "encountering" him for the first time to be rather amusing.

His ways are certainly not for everyone, but in the eight years I've "known" him, I've never found a "red flag" that would indicate he is anything other than what he presents himself to be. His girls serve him admirably and honorably, and he is, if nothing else, consistent in how he presents himself and his life to the rest of the world.

I know several people in the real world whose beliefs closely mirror those of Soulhuntre, and my own beliefs are equally similar.

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to Focus50)

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Post #: 61

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/6/2005 9:28:00 AM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
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Let's look at this from a legal point of view.

Tying or caging someone can be seen as kidnapping,illegal imprisonment, or restraint.

Impact play ,cutting, piercing,etc...as assault and battery.

The Attleboro case is a good example of what can happen when the law steps into the middle of what it is that we do. This is not something condoned by western societies as acceptable-when push comes to shove folks.

All that ssc was EVER intended to do was make a few pertinent points to newcomers.

1. Try not to break the toy-it's a person.

2. Keep a reasonable perspective on what you do-fun is fun,but when somebody dies or is maimed-it's not fun anymore.

3. REAL rape,kidnapping and assault are NOT cool-know the difference and respect it.

Enough said-anything beyond that is just blowing smoke and splitting hairs.

(in reply to WickedKev)

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Post #: 62

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/6/2005 11:33:32 AM

sub4mistressnsir

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WickedKev

Safe, Sane, Consensual, a good slogan to teach the newbies I agree, but to an experienced Dom? Who is going to tell him/her they are not safe nor sane? Not I, for I do not know the dynamics of thier relationship, I'm an edge player myself but what I might deem as unsafe or insane others might see as normal activities. The only person who can tell me they don't feel my play is safe or sane, that I would even listen too is the sub/slave/bottom I am playing with. Anyone else would be told where to go, and god help them if they interrupted a scene to tell me. For me the only valid part of Safe, Sane, Consensual is the Consensual part. Let the flaming begin..........

HAZZAH!!!!! WickedKev
i like your statement!!!

(in reply to WickedKev)

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Post #: 63

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/7/2005 6:51:13 AM

MrThorns

Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
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I think that "Safe, Sane & Consentual" is an extremely misleading statement. Is it safe or sane to cut off your partner's air supply? To cut or pierce their flesh? To set parts of their body on fire? I think that if I were on a psychiatrist's couch and said, "I like to whip my girlfriend black and blue then slide needles into her skin, set her on fire, and fuck her like the dirty little whore she is." I think I would be prescribed some strong anti-psychotics, referred to an anger management group, and issued a comfy cell.

I agree that explaining the principles of SSC or RACK to a new player is helpful in establishing some basic understandings of what we do, but thanks to virtual places like castlerealm, cuffs, etc, SSC has been interpreted (inaccurately) as being the commandments of BDSM.

Common sense, risk awareness, clear lines of communication and a firm grasp of reality should be, in my opinion, the primary tenants of what we do.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to WickedKev)

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Post #: 64

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/7/2005 1:25:28 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Come on, Focus. Don't call him names just because he doesn't agree with you.

Well, hardly for something as petty as "doesn't agree with you" (me)! Though I concede the lawyer comment was probably excessive and unprovoked - point taken....

Focus51.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

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Post #: 65

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/7/2005 2:39:08 PM

Soulhuntre

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce
I know several people in the real world whose beliefs closely mirror those of Soulhuntre, and my own beliefs are equally similar.

Hey there Denise! Your one of the folks on here I recognise but I try not to make a big deal of it in case you all don't want anyone to know you know me :)

(in reply to Evanesce)

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Post #: 66

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/7/2005 2:48:35 PM

Soulhuntre

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
An overview of your posts shows you are indeed the king of spin!

If the fact that my opinions are well thought out and consistent makes them spin then I'll take the credit :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
You wouldn't happen to be a lawyer?

Good lord no, I am an honestly abusive bastard - being a lawyer is beneath me :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Some might think the calm and composed manner in which you've handled yourself here are excellent Dom traits - and others might be thinking sociopath!

Could be - I am sure there are some of each. Hell, I know at least two little ladies who think it is both and like it :)

The sociopath thing is something I have discussed before (almost eveything is). While I know you won't go read the links I'll put them here for anyone interested in a discussion of dominance and sociopathy accusations.

* Socio what?

* So many ways to ignore what I said?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Tomato, tomarto, whatever, such a pity you've brought your misogynous ideals into this particular thread....

Misogynous? What I have said here may be many things - but since I would apply all of it to a male submissive I don't see how it might be misogynistic.

(in reply to Focus50)

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Post #: 67

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/7/2005 5:35:21 PM

Evanesce

Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
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quote:

Hey there Denise! Your one of the folks on here I recognise but I try not to make a big deal of it in case you all don't want anyone to know you know me :)

LOL! I don't care who knows it. I can take the heat.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich

(in reply to Soulhuntre)

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/7/2005 8:34:51 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Soulhuntre

If the fact that my opinions are well thought out and consistent makes them spin then I'll take the credit :)

<snip>

quote:

Misogynous? What I have said here may be many things - but since I would apply all of it to a male submissive I don't see how it might be misogynistic.

Left is right; up is down; black is white.... Spin certainly is the area you're consistent about, hence my observation.

But this IS a thread on SS&C and since your girls (apparently) don't even have the right to end their relationship with you, indeed are even incapable of contemplating such a decision (to your mind), your opinions on this subject aren't exactly qualified, informed, helpful or based on personal experience, are they? G'won, dazzle me with what qualifies as qualified etc....

Consent, consensual or consensus means to agree or an agreement - one person doesn't get to decide for others that all are in agreement, especially when SS&C has it's most value in the formative stages of that relationship. If your relationships work differently, fine, but like I said, such a pity you had to bring those values to this particular thread.

Life is full of "grey areas" but there's nothing to trust or respect about anyone who strives to thrive in them, and I don't just mean lawyers.... I'm done with you but it's not to say it hasn't been entertaining. Lotsa scope here, spin away....

Focus.

(in reply to Soulhuntre)

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Post #: 69

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/7/2005 10:40:46 PM

Soulhuntre

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

Misogynous? What I have said here may be many things - but since I would apply all of it to a male submissive I don't see how it might be misogynistic.

Left is right; up is down; black is white.... Spin certainly is the area you're consistent about, hence my observation.

I know, that pesky little thing called factual accuracy. It muust be a real problem. You're welcome to call it what you want - I just tend to assume that people understand the words they use. Probably a failing of mine.

I am really failing to see how this is spin though - you refered to my words as an example of "mosogyny" - a term that is defined as the hatred of women. Since none of my comments were limited to women, nor did they express any such hatred.... you're simply wrong.

Thats not spin, thats fact.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
But this IS a thread on SS&C

Yes...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
and since your girls (apparently) don't even have the right to end their relationship with you

Good so far...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
indeed are even incapable of contemplating such a decision (to your mind)

Actually, I didn't say that. They contemplate it all the time. What I said was they aren't capable of actually deciding to do it. Accuracy never hurts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
your opinions on this subject aren't exactly qualified, informed, helpful or based on personal experience, are they? G'won, dazzle me with what qualifies as qualified etc....

How does that follow? Since the discussion was about the concepts of SSC and not about a topic that only has meaning for those who accept it as their personal ethical guideline my opinion is as qualified etc as anyone elses in broad terms.

I don't need to be, for instance, a salamander in order to discuss them and have an opinion on them.

Or have things gotten to the point where only opinions from those who agree with SSC are considered as valuable?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Life is full of "grey areas" but there's nothing to trust or respect about anyone who strives to thrive in them, and I don't just mean lawyers.... I'm done with you but it's not to say it hasn't been entertaining. Lotsa scope here, spin away....

Enjoy :)

(in reply to Focus50)

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RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/8/2005 3:07:57 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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SSC = Safe ~ Sane ~ Consensual (some one left out the S = Sex at the end?)

Yep we have that at work too in many industrial and commercial areas…

Safe ~ The work place is safe to work in (well we hope it is but we can't be sued because of the fine print on your employment contract)

Sane ~ Sure just don’t mind the Psych Nurses and resident psychologist we employ. Ohh and never go to the basement we don’t want you to see the padded cells.

Consensual ~ Sure, you signed the employment contract. Not our fault if you couldn’t read the fine print in Latin.

Can you imagine the Armed Services or the Police having SSC occupations? Never! This post is absolutely insane as it was meant to be up to now…. But this is why I believe in what I have used in my work areas most of my life, it’s called RACK… Know the dangers, know the risks and then decide if you want to enter the playground. If not then find a peaceful DVD and curl up with a vibrator or something suitable.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Soulhuntre)

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Post #: 71

RE: Safe, Sane and Consenual - 10/13/2005 3:38:32 PM

oldnewbie2

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/12/2005
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um okay coming from a newbie, i have never heard the term before, but now that i have, and read this ENTIRE thread....................yes, its a little confusing, but i think that the best people to discuss it posted in, and from everything i have read here, i can come up with what i w9uld think for ME is SS and C. Thats a BIG thing for me.
i mean, my BIGGEST fears about doing this for the first time are being SAFE.
I mean, i dont want to give up the "PLAY", part, i think thats what i should say, of being safe, but i would have to minsist that a Dom respected my limits or at least let me have some for aawhile, until there was some sort of a trust built up??
I dont want to feel as if i could be truly damaged, or really honestly HURT like permanently in any way.
I want to make sure that the person KNOWS what He is doing.
so, for me, this whole safe sane and consensual thing...i would want to talk about it first, get it agreed upon, but if a scene has been set, and the play is in motion, i lioke the idea of what i read here about a safe word.
I think that would work for me, but then i would have to trust the person to really stop if i said it.
i was thinking what it would be.
i decided on peanutbutter. G

Mahalo again for all the intelligent wisdom from u gys. S

(in reply to WickedKev)

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Post #: 72