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RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 4:01:32 PM

pain4gain

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline

Holly I share your dismay that such feelings can exist but according to those who have to pick up the pieces time and time again they do apparently exist and are quite common. I didn't actually say mom walked funny, just that she had 'that' walk, by which I meant that my mother and stepfather had a active sex life despite the abuse and an abusive episode was always followed with a pretty intensive 'making up' episode which I have been told is also fairly common. My brother was not only abusive to his spouses but a liar, cheat and criminal to boot - a thoroughly rotten apple right to the core.

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 41

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 4:07:54 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

Jeez. He apologised for his style of posting and explained he is used to other types of forums. He attempted to straighten out his admittedly raggedy first post. Can't people just let it go? Just continue with the thread and not just the thread maker please? My earliest influence was an unknown movie I saw at about 7ish. All I can remember is a girl being led with her hands tied in front, unclothed but covered in paint (strategically) while in front of a crowd.It made me squirmy inside and was utterly confusing lol. I kept quiet but began to notice all sorts of things, like how people related to each other. In particular how some could manipulate a certain reaction from others.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to pain4gain)

Post #: 42

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 4:19:45 PM

pain4gain

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline

Herlord hostily is a two way street. Nearly everyone here went on the attack without a single question, knee jerk reaction and instant conviction. When you accuse a victim of domestic violence of wanting to perpetuate it, that is a deeply personal attack so you bet I reacted a little bit. Accusing a victim of an abusive stepfather of identifying with him on the so-called evidence you have is as about as vile as me accusing you of being peadophile because you admitted to hugging the nieghbours kid to comfort him after he fell down and skinned his knee (and before anyone goes twisting THAT to suit their prejudices it was just an example of unjustified accusations). As for pissing of everyone in the room, I can see that many have judged me and condemned me without so much as a thought that their assumptions might possibly be wrong if that's so and if they aren't prepared to find out the truth with the simple courtesy of asking then there's nothing anyone can do about that.

Your disgusting comments about my personal sexual preferences I shall ignore as meaningless angst. If you don't like hostile posts then don't make disgusting accusations. As for my typos and 'incomplete thoughts' its sounds like you have already made up your mind that you won't like anything I say so I won't try to talk to a closed mind.

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to HerLord)

Post #: 43

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 4:25:26 PM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

I must say that i agree with mistoferin. It may not have been your intention to make it seem like the women in your family asked for it, but that IS how it comes across. I reread your post several times and it still comes across the same way: that your mom and sisters in law stayed with their abusers because they enjoyed and condoned the abuse.

I'm not saying that this is what you intended, but it IS the way it comes across.

Phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to pain4gain)

Post #: 44

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 4:45:19 PM

pain4gain

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline

Pheonix you have my apologies if that is how you see my post. Let me just post AGAIN, my mother and elder sister did stay with their abusive spouses and claimed to love their spouses. I never meant to imply they loved their spouses BECAUSE of the abuse, simply that they loved their spouses.

Look leaving all personalities aside here everyone seems feverishly intent on repudiating family violence to which I say HOORAY and I'm sure you all stand up for those who are victims of it in the community as you do here. However attacking the messenger or trying to paint him or her with the same stripe as those we all despise is a bit over the top.

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 45

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 4:49:38 PM

giveeverything

Posts: 348
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pain4gain

What was your first experience of Sadism or for that matter Masochism - when did it first make an impression on you? I was about 12 at the time, with my father dead 2 years my mother re-married and I gained a stepfather. Many of you can guess what comes next. . . he was what they call a street angel, home devil. Friendly and good company outside the home but once home a calculatingly viscious bastard who terrified yours truly with the thrashings inflicted on his mother. For years growing up I pleaded, threatened and screamed but all to no avail, he would not give up his beatings and she would not leave him. At about the age of 17 a dim glow lit inside the old brain box as I noticed that whenever he started to calm down and simply snarl abusive threats at her she would do her level best to provoke him until he lashed out and they were off again. I started thinking back right to the very first time he thrashed her, yes most of you will have guessed - she deliberately provoked him and had been doing so ever since. The penny finally dropped when I put two and two together to realize that the next morning, it wasn't the blackening eyes or bruised arms and legs that stood out the most it was the way she walked. . you know the way!

My elder sister is the same, married to what is termed an abusive husband but they have been together 40 years and she thinks the sun shines out of his @rse. My eldest brother is a viscious bastard with a loving wife who adores him. . . and me? I'm arrogant and intent on controlling any situation I find myself in and from an early age I learnt the symbiotic relationship between pleasure and pain, the poets skate as close to the truth as publishers will allow when they talk about the exquisite pain of love.
[/quote/]

I've reread your first post and I still have no other way to analyze your own words other than to think that you have held onto some idea that your mother really "brought it on herself." I realize that you've said that wasn't your intent... but it still strikes me as the case. I think you got called on something that you didn't really want to admit to yourself and have tried to back peddle. You explain to me how I misinterperate your own words?

edited to change a freudian slip.

< Message edited by giveeverything -- 3/29/2008 4:50:51 PM >

(in reply to pain4gain)

Post #: 46

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 4:52:51 PM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pain4gain

Pheonix you have my apologies if that is how you see my post. Let me just post AGAIN, my mother and elder sister did stay with their abusive spouses and claimed to love their spouses. I never meant to imply they loved their spouses BECAUSE of the abuse, simply that they loved their spouses.

Look leaving all personalities aside here everyone seems feverishly intent on repudiating family violence to which I say HOORAY and I'm sure you all stand up for those who are victims of it in the community as you do here. However attacking the messenger or trying to paint him or her with the same stripe as those we all despise is a bit over the top.

I'm glad to see you took my comment in the spirit which it was intended. I cannot comment on what you were thinking when you posted this, only the way you said it. Actually i don't see you as condoning domestic violence at all. HOWEVER just because the women in your family stay with their abusers does not mean they love them, they may be afraid to leave or have been threatened if they tried, a very different thing.

Phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to pain4gain)

Post #: 47

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 5:28:06 PM

pain4gain

Posts: 20
Joined: 3/21/2008
Status: offline

giveeverything I have posted my utter repudiation of any form of domestic violence ad nauseum. Read all my replies with an open mind, my mother was a corageous person who would never stand for any form of bullying and yes the very first time he tried to come the heavy on her she did provoke him, simply by refusing to be cowed. That is enough to provoke a wife beater. And yes my mother and stepfather did have an active sex life and yes after abusive episodes there was always an equally intense episode of 'making up' which produced that type of walk.

Those who love an abusive partner despite the abuse do understand the duality of pleasure/pain. Nothing could be more agonizing than loving someone who abuses you.

On reading this particular post of yours you SEEM to have decided that you're interpretation of my post is the only correct one. If you call explanation and repudiation of vile personal attacks back peddling then I fear that no suasion will suffice.

Yes I said vile personal attacks because when you accuse a victim of domestic violence of the same despicable crime you are stooping to the lowest of lows.

_____________________________

A roman soldier calls up to the centurion on the gates "Sir I've captured a Gaul!" Centurion calls "Bring him inside for interrogation." After a minute or so of silence the roman soldier replies brokenly "Sir He won't let me!"

I am the Gaul. .

(in reply to giveeverything)

Post #: 48

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 5:42:12 PM

ModeratorEleven

Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline

Ok folks, after spending some time cleaning up this thread I'll say this once; keep the personal attacks to yourself if you want to patricipate here. This is getting way out of hand.

XI

_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to pain4gain)

Post #: 49

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 6:18:54 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

I think you meant exactly what you said and when you didn't get the pat on the back and the "atta boy" you expected, you attempted to back pedal. I don't think that's any kind of psychoanalysis, it's just stating the obvious.

Now in terms of you feeling victimized because no one asked you what it was like to live with and experience the abuse of your mother or considered how traumatic it must have been for you; YOU are the one who trivialized her experience, and your own. Not us. You are the one who boiled it all down to her way of getting some good sex.

Go ahead and be offended but it's not going to do you any good if you don't learn from what happened here. You're getting all huffy because you feel you've been misjudged, but several people had exactly the same response to what you wrote, so either; YOU misrepresented yourself and your views, OR you really believe what you wrote but now that you see it's unpopular you want everyone to believe that's not really what you meant. Which is it?

(in reply to ModeratorEleven)

Post #: 50

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 6:47:41 PM

TheBanshee

Posts: 403
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I think you're full of it. Either you know it, and hope we won't notice, or you've fooled yourself as well. You're mother was abused and now you want to do the same thing to someone else and you've twisted it all in your head to be something it's not. I'm glad you posted this so any prospective sub can see and know to stay far far away.

Was thinking the same thing reading it and you said it perfectly. Bravo

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 51

RE: Your early influences? - 3/29/2008 7:35:19 PM

MontrealPhoenix

Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

I think you meant exactly what you said and when you didn't get the pat on the back and the "atta boy" you expected, you attempted to back pedal. I don't think that's any kind of psychoanalysis, it's just stating the obvious.

Now in terms of you feeling victimized because no one asked you what it was like to live with and experience the abuse of your mother or considered how traumatic it must have been for you; YOU are the one who trivialized her experience, and your own. Not us. You are the one who boiled it all down to her way of getting some good sex.

Go ahead and be offended but it's not going to do you any good if you don't learn from what happened here. You're getting all huffy because you feel you've been misjudged, but several people had exactly the same response to what you wrote, so either; YOU misrepresented yourself and your views, OR you really believe what you wrote but now that you see it's unpopular you want everyone to believe that's not really what you meant. Which is it?

.....OR he simply clarified a previously unclear post.....

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 52

RE: Your early influences? - 3/30/2008 4:44:52 AM

lally3

Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline

At about the age of 17 a dim glow lit inside the old brain box as I noticed that whenever he started to calm down and simply snarl abusive threats at her she would do her level best to provoke him until he lashed out and they were off again. I started thinking back right to the very first time he thrashed her, yes most of you will have guessed - she deliberately provoked him and had been doing so ever since. The penny finally dropped when I put two and two together to realize that the next morning, it wasn't the blackening eyes or bruised arms and legs that stood out the most it was the way she walked. . you know the way!

i dont think that at 17 a person is emotionally equipped or life-experienced enough to form an accurate opinion on an adult and complex relationship. i think that what you have done here is equate what happened and applied your 17 year old attempt to make sense of it.

you know that what you witnessed was abuse, your mothers reaction was confusing and in order to make sense of that and perhaps make what happened to her more pallatable you have parralelled it with S&m - perhaps by thinking it maybe was in some way consensual you can live with the memory better.

i was in an abusive relationship for a while. he beat me up for no reason atall. then i started to sass him and push him, once i cut all three phone lines in the appartment just to wind him up. what i was doing was trying to find an excuse to leave him, to hate him more than i already did, to make him do that one final thing that would eventually push me through the door. for me it came, not from an act of violence, i just walked through the door one day, i didnt pack i didnt look back i walked.

you dont mention it atall, but perhaps your mother witnessed abuse or was abused as a child too and all that she has done is carry the cycle through into her own adult life. i think too that maybe there is some anger toward her for allowing this to go on and affect your childhood and your siblings.

im sure you know the difference between abuse and consensual, i sense your real anger towards the implication that you might be confusing these two things, but i also feel that you need to adjust that 17 year old 'dim glow' of comprehension and work on it. the impotence of a 17 year old to step between his mother and his mothers abuser, to be confused as to whether this was wanted, necessary or would be doubly rejected by her as well as him. there are an awful lot of layers going on here.

if you have come to bdsm with a horror of abuse and you know the difference then all power to you. but the 17 year old take on it all needs to be reviewed.

just my take on this.

< Message edited by lally3 -- 3/30/2008 4:47:39 AM >

(in reply to MontrealPhoenix)

Post #: 53

RE: Your early influences? - 3/30/2008 5:30:08 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

pain4gain
As for arrogance that is a matter of interpertation - do you call a certainty of self-control in most situations arrogant? I do. And as for being a control freak, I seek to control nobody else but me and my reactions to other people - you know the type of lack of self control I'm talking about - unfounded accusations, jumping to conclusions, that type of thing.

I really don't think that I made any unfounded accusations or jumped to conclusions. I wasn't basing my comments on my own opinions, I based them on your own words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pain4gain
I'm arrogant and intent on controlling any situation I find myself in and from an early age I learnt the symbiotic relationship between pleasure and pain, the poets skate as close to the truth as publishers will allow when they talk about the exquisite pain of love.

I would also like to comment on your statement about learning from an early age about the symbiotic relationship between pleasure and pain. Once again noting that you are on a BDSM message board, I don't think that your early experiences can contribute much to your understanding of "the symbiotic relationship between pleasure and pain" in the context that we discuss it here. If I was to teach a small child mathematics, yet I had no understanding of mathematics myself, that child may learn what I teach them very well and may grow up with the "knowledge" that 1+1+3. I don't think that you can have a good understanding of the "symbiotic relationship between pleasure and pain" if you are basing your knowledge of it on the early experiences you describe here. Your educational model was seriously flawed.

I have read and re-read and re-read your original post and your subsequent posts. I don't think I misinterpreted and the fact that so many here share a similar interpretation of your words reinforces to that to me. Maybe, if you would take time out from being on the defensive you might consider some of the perspectives shared here.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to pain4gain)

Post #: 54

RE: Your early influences? - 3/30/2008 6:34:35 AM

cjan

Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Jeez. He apologised for his style of posting and explained he is used to other types of forums. He attempted to straighten out his admittedly raggedy first post. Can't people just let it go? Just continue with the thread and not just the thread maker please? My earliest influence was an unknown movie I saw at about 7ish. All I can remember is a girl being led with her hands tied in front, unclothed but covered in paint (strategically) while in front of a crowd.It made me squirmy inside and was utterly confusing lol. I kept quiet but began to notice all sorts of things, like how people related to each other. In particular how some could manipulate a certain reaction from others.

Yea, what she said...

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 55

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