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Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:10:45 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Time and again a person hears that "Trust" is wanted and needed in an intimate relationship for it to be successful over the long term.

So..... how do you establish and/or build "Trust" in your relationship?

When do you know you have Trust?   Have you ever thought yu had it... only to find out you didn't have it?  How did you lose it?  Did you give Trust when it's shouldn't of been given? 

Is "Trust" something you get and then you don't have to work to have it anymore... cause you just have it?  or is trust something you constantly most work on building and one needs to maintain it? 



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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.
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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:25:44 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		There are two levels of trust. Trust that is given and trust that is earned.

When My girl first came to Me, she trusted that I was what I appeared to be, trusted that I ment what I said and said what I ment. That things would be as had been outlined in discussion.

That was trust she gave Me (Works the same with the trust I gave her in the same manner)

That is only baseline trust, it is a fragile thing and doesn't give much security but is an essential in building lasting trust which is the second type.

Lasting trust is built, earned by actions over time. Not on the assumption that things will be as discussed but that they have been as discussed, that I have done what I said and said what I ment. That I am 'exactly what it said on the tin'.... and more, all the little things that aren't outlined that work, the duty of care in effect. Even where things haven't gone exactly to plan, the way I keep control and ensure her safety, the effectivness of the after care, the smooth way that various aspects of our Dynamic have been incorporated as they have developed (The Daddy Dom aspect of the Dynamic with My current girl is a lot stronger than either of us had first anticipated, butit had been smoothly incorporated, naturaly incorporated without detriment to any other aspect of the relationship).

Baseline trust is an assumption, a chance to prove and yes there is the risk that it will turn out to be misplaced.

Lasting trust is built from that baseline, proven time and time again. she learns who You are and how You handle things (Both good and bad), she doesn't have to 'trust' in assumptions but rather she has a growing body of proof to base that secure trust on.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:29:42 AM   
TethersEnd


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		Hugs KOM...
Trust is one of those Buzz words we hear over and over but IMHO Trust has to begin with yourself. 
Too often when a trust is broken we want to point fingers at the other, say it's their fault, that they broke
their word and so on, but in reality I feel we failed ourselves by not trusting our own gut, trusting what
we've heard, seen or experianced cause we've filtered it through our own expectations for the most part. 
Sure there are those times when something comes out of the blue and flies backwards in the face of
everything you invested in, but even then if you search far enough it comes right back to a missing link
that you paid no heed to. 
So, how do I go about building trust? 
I tend to start with a blank slate.  Although I will say I am a bit skeptical, which is why I have learned
to trust ME first.  I listen, and watch for follow up to promises and intent.  If someone fails to follow through
over and over again reguardless of excuses or lack there of that's a Red Flag. 
It's almost like letting out rope to see if they hang themself. 
I over look some trips if they get their foot caught, see if it gets corrected before tossing in the towel. 
So, yes.... I am with the school of it's something to be consistantly watched over even after it is
established.  Personally I believe if you take it forgranted that is a fore runner into allowing yourself
to become a DoorMat. 
But the thought of rebuilding Trust once it's gone totally is wasted time. 
If it's gotten to that point you can pretty much take it to the bank what ever happened before
will again.  .....   Bottom line is Trust Yourself. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Time and again a person hears that "Trust" is wanted and needed in an intimate relationship for it to be successful over the long term.

So..... how do you establish and/or build "Trust" in your relationship?

When do you know you have Trust?   Have you ever thought yu had it... only to find out you didn't have it?  How did you lose it?  Did you give Trust when it's shouldn't of been given? 

Is "Trust" something you get and then you don't have to work to have it anymore... cause you just have it?  or is trust something you constantly most work on building and one needs to maintain it? 




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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:36:45 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Good morning, Knight.
 
A quick answer, to one of your questions: trust needs to be maintained, because it can be lost. Easier to maintain, and keep it, than have to try to reclaim it once it's gone.

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:37:37 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TethersEnd

But the thought of rebuilding Trust once it's gone totally is wasted time. 



Absolutely. Lasting trust is built because the person hasn't broken your baseline trust.... once broken it means there is always the spector of it happening again.

Someone new starts with a clean slate, someone who has broken My trust to the extent I dismiss them, there is no clean slate to be had, they will never be allowed to be in a position to break it again. (Small trust issues can be repaired, but a relationship breaker.... never. Once that line gets drawn it is held forever.)

If you bite Me once, its your bad... bite Me twice... its My stupidity... and I ain't that stupid!


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:41:16 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		Just remember that "trust" isn't a binary.  We move from "no trust" to degrees of "some trust" to.... well, there is arguement about the existence of absolute trust.

The best trust exercise I know of is to extend some trust, give the person a chance to betray it, and if he or she does not, extend a bit more.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:50:52 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

There are two levels of trust. Trust that is given and trust that is earned.

When My girl first came to Me, she trusted that I was what I appeared to be, trusted that I ment what I said and said what I ment. That things would be as had been outlined in discussion.

That was trust she gave Me (Works the same with the trust I gave her in the same manner)

That is only baseline trust, it is a fragile thing and doesn't give much security but is an essential in building lasting trust which is the second type.

Lasting trust is built, earned by actions over time. Not on the assumption that things will be as discussed but that they have been as discussed, that I have done what I said and said what I ment. That I am 'exactly what it said on the tin'.... and more, all the little things that aren't outlined that work, the duty of care in effect. Even where things haven't gone exactly to plan, the way I keep control and ensure her safety, the effectivness of the after care, the smooth way that various aspects of our Dynamic have been incorporated as they have developed (The Daddy Dom aspect of the Dynamic with My current girl is a lot stronger than either of us had first anticipated, butit had been smoothly incorporated, naturaly incorporated without detriment to any other aspect of the relationship).

Baseline trust is an assumption, a chance to prove and yes there is the risk that it will turn out to be misplaced.

Lasting trust is built from that baseline, proven time and time again. she learns who You are and how You handle things (Both good and bad), she doesn't have to 'trust' in assumptions but rather she has a growing body of proof to base that secure trust on.



Exactly. 

I'd only add that trust requires maintenance... if only to continue to consistently behave in the manner that gained trust in the first place.


< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 3/29/2008 8:54:13 AM >

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:51:46 AM   
hsagnev


Posts: 188
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Time and again a person hears that "Trust" is wanted and needed in an intimate relationship for it to be successful over the long term.

So..... how do you establish and/or build "Trust" in your relationship?

When do you know you have Trust?   Have you ever thought yu had it... only to find out you didn't have it?  How did you lose it?  Did you give Trust when it's shouldn't of been given? 

Is "Trust" something you get and then you don't have to work to have it anymore... cause you just have it?  or is trust something you constantly most work on building and one needs to maintain it? 




It is something you have until you lose it, so don't do anything to lose it. Once you cross the line you might be forgiven, but the action will always be remembered and there is nothing that either partner could do to change that. Don't cross the line if trust is important. That's just my take.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 8:54:40 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hsagnev

It is something you have until you lose it, so don't do anything to lose it. Once you cross the line you might be forgiven, but the action will always be remembered and there is nothing that either partner could do to change that. Don't cross the line if trust is important. That's just my take.


mmm that is very well said

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:02:08 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 Time and again a person hears that "Trust" is wanted and needed in an intimate relationship for it to be successful over the long term. 

~Looks at you with suspicion~  What are you really getting at here?

quote:

  So..... how do you establish and/or build "Trust" in your relationship?

Seriously,  trust is engendered when the person simply goes about being trustworthy; words and deeds are consistent and he/she does not need to exclaim repeatedly that “you can trust MEEEE, really!"

quote:

  When do you know you have Trust?

I know it when  words and deeds are consistent over time.


quote:

Have you ever thought yu had it... only to find out you didn't have it?  How did you lose it?  Did you give Trust when it's shouldn't of been given?   

Yep, and yep.  Most times when this has happened to me I can look back and see that I ignored the red flags.   There have been a few times where it came out of the blue.  I was friends with a couple for over 20 years and the guy went all flaky on me and betrayed the basis of our friendship; so there are times one can be blindsided.
quote:

  Is "Trust" something you get and then you don't have to work to have it anymore... cause you just have it?  or is trust something you constantly most work on building and one needs to maintain it? 

I don’t know; seems to me that in general if you are trustworthy, it isn’t something you work on, you just are who you are. 

< Message edited by catize -- 3/29/2008 9:03:30 AM >

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Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:03:13 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		my god
can you put the blue font some smaller next time :P

i beg you...!!!

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:09:59 AM   
MissHarlet


Posts: 2728
Joined: 9/11/2005
From: El Paso , TX US
Status: offline 		What a great thought provoking thread ....... I can only agree with all of the above ...... <smile> ..... and stress that to be trusted you must first trust ... and to me that means trust YOURSELF........

If you never learn to trust yourself ... you will never be trustworthy.... and will not trust others ...

_____________________________

Protectress of hearts/souls of all submissives calling Bounty's Place home, by order of Bounty~Proprietor

To be respected you must be respectful, to be loved you must be willing to love,
to be trusted you must be willing to trust.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:10:10 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

my god
can you put the blue font some smaller next time :P
i beg you...!!![/quote
 
~just laughs~


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:11:46 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
So..... how do you establish and/or build "Trust" in your relationship?

Time and shared experiences together.
quote:


When do you know you have Trust?  

When you take a leap of faith and land safely on the other side.

quote:

 Have you ever thought yu had it... only to find out you didn't have it?  How did you lose it?  Did you give Trust when it's shouldn't of been given? 

Absolutely.
quote:


Is "Trust" something you get and then you don't have to work to have it anymore... cause you just have it?  or is trust something you constantly most work on building and one needs to maintain it? 

For me once trust is there in some form, it doesn't erode over time.  But if it's a sensitive issue, it might take a lot more work to really internalize and take in that trust.

Trust isn't just an all or nothing thing- I can trust someone in some way and not at all in another way.  I can trust them to be a sucky person :)  I can trust them to understand some parts and not others.  It's very much a living progressive dynamic.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:15:42 AM   
sassysexygirl


Posts: 213
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

There are two levels of trust. Trust that is given and trust that is earned.

When My girl first came to Me, she trusted that I was what I appeared to be, trusted that I ment what I said and said what I ment. That things would be as had been outlined in discussion.

That was trust she gave Me (Works the same with the trust I gave her in the same manner)

That is only baseline trust, it is a fragile thing and doesn't give much security but is an essential in building lasting trust which is the second type.

Lasting trust is built, earned by actions over time. Not on the assumption that things will be as discussed but that they have been as discussed, that I have done what I said and said what I ment. That I am 'exactly what it said on the tin'.... and more, all the little things that aren't outlined that work, the duty of care in effect. Even where things haven't gone exactly to plan, the way I keep control and ensure her safety, the effectivness of the after care, the smooth way that various aspects of our Dynamic have been incorporated as they have developed (The Daddy Dom aspect of the Dynamic with My current girl is a lot stronger than either of us had first anticipated, butit had been smoothly incorporated, naturaly incorporated without detriment to any other aspect of the relationship).

Baseline trust is an assumption, a chance to prove and yes there is the risk that it will turn out to be misplaced.

Lasting trust is built from that baseline, proven time and time again. she learns who You are and how You handle things (Both good and bad), she doesn't have to 'trust' in assumptions but rather she has a growing body of proof to base that secure trust on.



greetings Master Ravenmuse

i could not have said it better myself.  thank You for writing a conception i would have had trouble explaining.

well wishes,
gemmie

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:25:21 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		When it comes to trust I have differnt issues and I have shared them before so for those of you who pay attention I am about to sound off the usual cynical belief systems I hold onto dearly.

Where I agree that there is a concept of trust that cannot be easily given I do not believe that it is earned either because well I don't believe you can Earn trust period. I do believe that some trust is harder to give than others but in the end NOTHING I DO is going to make me definantly TRUST WORTHY.

I break this down with Trust and Lost Trust, because Trust is freely given and usually with no real pattern you either trust someone or you don't. Now lets say we are friends and one day you catch me going through your wallet and trying to take a $100.00 dollar Bill from it. Now under many circumstances our friendship would come to an end at that very point, but lets just say I beg you forgiveness and Vow NEVER to do something that that again and I prove it day and day again just to show you I don't ever want to damage that trust again. We remain friends and 5 years later you realize you left your wallet on my coffee table and when you come back to it you think there is less money than there should be. Who do you assume took the money? Me obviously because I have a History and because of this you always associate me with a Thief. AND THIS IS WELL WITHIN YOUR RIGHT!!! I am a former Drug Addict there are those out there who just can't trust me ever again and I understand why.

However there is the BLANKET MIS-TRUST that I don't understand and ladies I find that it is a 5 to 1 balance in which you take the cake in this particular factor. The Mis-Trust that because ONE, TWO, or TWENTY Guys Cheated on you that they all will, and trying to overcome this belief is in most cases exausting and never shows real promise. I understand that someone hurt you but why must "I" pay for "THIER" Sins? I never cheated on you however all the acusation and mistrust certainly don't make me want to stay with you and in the end you simply assume that I left you for another woman when in relaity I just left the accusations that I am a Filthy Cheater for someone who is going to give me the benifit of a doubt before casting me to the dogs or under the bus for something I didn't do.

I like the Philosophy that I will trust EVERYONE untill the first belief that they are not being honest or trustworthy. This can be a big thing like lying about what you do for a living or sending a differnt Picture to a small think like telling me to enjoy something that you don't. I am all about upfront BLUNT Honesty and if you aren't capable of that then you really ought to look into the reasons why.

I know that just because every guy doesn't cheat doesn't mean that your guy isn't cheating, but can you simply be more discreat about how you deal with this issue? I mean if he isn't cheating how do you think he sees the relationhsip when he can't choose to let a call go to voice mail because he is busy without you going directly to "Which Whore are you fucking behind my back" as the price?

Building Trust is a Time game BUT IT TAKES TWO BOYS AND GIRLS!!!!!!! If you aren't willing to trust then maybe you have no business getting into a relationship which has a FOIUNDATION BUILT ON TRUST! If you can't bring yourself to trust someone then why are you meeting to trying to get involved in a lifestyle which DEMANDS Trust from all parties involved?

Just out of curiosity to all the Nay sayers .... How can ANYONE actually Prove that they are trust worthy? And before I bet the Blanket answer of TIME I will have you all now that one in 4 SERIAL KILLERS Knew thier first victim for over 3 years!!!!! So Time doesn't mean a damn thing when someone just isn't a good guy.

Really, what can someone do to PROVE they are trust worthy?

Steel

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:34:55 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

There are two levels of trust. Trust that is given and trust that is earned.


Maybe "level" is the wrong word here.  I would consider it two "approaches" of obtaining trust that can and do feed off of each other... the giving of trust and the earning of trust.

As John Warren stated...
quote:

The best trust exercise I know of is to extend some trust, give the person a chance to betray it, and if he or she does not, extend a bit more.


This is an exercise of trust being given.  But with trust being given... we as the giver will validate that it was the right decision to give in the first place before we extend a bit more.

However, for us to "give" trust.  We must first need to be motivated to give it.  This motivation can come internal or external.  Often we as individuals we are internal motivated to give trust to another.  For many this drive is because of beliefs, value and principles that are engrained in us through our experiences of life.  We give trust... we can have a good relationship.  On the external side we have that other approach.  We seek to Earn trust for some of the very reasons that we seek to give trust. 

As we give alittle trust... it becomes much easier to give alittle more when warrented becaue the person is attempting to earn trust.  Their desire to earn trust allows us to validate the trust we have already given.... and so the cycle begins.  Each person desiring to give and earn trust in the relationship and slowly the bond closer together.



quote:



Lasting trust is built, earned by actions over time.


it is not only actions but also our inactions... in other words.... we build trust not just by what we do but we do not do as well.

Secondly... Actions/Inactions do not in of itself build trust.  For that to occur their must be expectations for such actions/inactions to be meassure against.  When actions/inactions exceed or meet expectations.. trust grows stronger.  When actions/inactions fall below expectations trust well suffer as a result.

For me... the establishment of realistic expecations is a critical step in the building of trust in a relationship.  One can desire to give trust and one can desire to earn trust.... but if the expectations are unrealistic.. one will fail to build trust.





_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:37:03 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I can honestly see this thread spinning off into a number of sub-topics.
  • It's an extremely difficult process to build trust if either party has a lot of insecurities.
  • It's Difficult to build trust if either party has bad Passive-Aggressive habits.
  • It's Difficult to build trust if either party is extremely needy, Co-Dependent.

There is always a measure of trust that should be given between two people.  The rest of it has to be earned.   Just as respect is given in a certain measure between two people, and the rest of it is earned. 

Not only through words but through actions is trust built and maintained.  The bitch is that one can spend a lot of time building trust, and it can all collapse in a single moment.

I think this is where reasoning, understanding, acceptance, compassion and forgiveness come into play.  

At times, it hurts like hell when trust has been broken.   The thing is to understand the reason behind it and see if it can be repaired or not.   Us humans tend to become all self protective when our trust is violated.   The thing is was trust broken to intentionally harm or hurt us or not?  Perhaps if two people are willing to talk about the root reasons to things, that this can rebuild trust, or not.

What the difference between a guilt trip and somebody's honest preception of things?  Misunderstanding often happen as the result of miscommunication or somebody stuck in selfish denial refusing to acknowledge the other persons struggles, thoughts and feelings.

Somebody's asshole/bitch may be somebody else's true one.  I think casting Judgements upon other people, in a sense gives us our own sense of closure to things.  At times, we don't always Judge people right and face Judgements by other people that simply are not true either.

I think trust is a two way street.  Somebody can try to do everything right to build trust, if the other person is too wrapped up in insecurity, fear, or constantly needs paise it's a bad thing.





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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:42:26 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Trust isn't just an all or nothing thing- I can trust someone in some way and not at all in another way.  I can trust them to be a sucky person :)  I can trust them to understand some parts and not others.  It's very much a living progressive dynamic.


I agree very much that it is not an all or nothing.  I can trust person A will issue B, D, E... but not with A & C.   But I wonder if this not a form of trust.  In knowing what to expect of a person... both the good and the bad... we can trust the outcome with the person.  It's when I don't know the expectation is that I will say that I don't trust person A with A & C.  But... if I know the expectation of what person A will do with issue A & C... something that I don't like... this is trust... I can trust them to do something I don't want.  Therefore, we in a way treat them like some we don't trust we dont depend on them with issue A&C.  but B,D & E we would trust them.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:44:20 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

 However there is the BLANKET MIS-TRUST that I don't understand and ladies I find that it is a 5 to 1 balance in which you take the cake in this particular factor. The Mis-Trust that because ONE, TWO, or TWENTY Guys Cheated on you that they all will, and trying to overcome this belief is in most cases exausting and never shows real promise.  


 
It has happened to me as well; my behavior was not in question but he mistrusted me based on his past experiences.  Seems to me we should keep it in the here and now, not assume it’s another ‘somebody done somebody wrong song.’ 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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