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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:52:37 AM   
christine1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Good morning, Knight.
 
A quick answer, to one of your questions: trust needs to be maintained, because it can be lost. Easier to maintain, and keep it, than have to try to reclaim it once it's gone.


yup, what he said.



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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:52:41 AM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Just out of curiosity to all the Nay sayers .... How can ANYONE actually Prove that they are trust worthy? And before I bet the Blanket answer of TIME I will have you all now that one in 4 SERIAL KILLERS Knew thier first victim for over 3 years!!!!! So Time doesn't mean a damn thing when someone just isn't a good guy.



Your example doesn't prove your point... it only proves that Time for some proves they are not trustworthy.  But because some are proven to lack being trustworthy doesn't mean it proves that everyone is untrustworthy.  The answer is still Time... time will prove that a person is trustworthy or not trustworthy.

Secondly, just because a person doesn't do what you want.. doesn't make them untrustworthy.  It comes down to expectations measured against actions/inaction.  Even if my expectations are of a negative view of person A... if a person A continues to meet my expectations... I can trust him to do X...  It makes him trustworthy... It could very well be that another would like what he would do... that person would also see the person as trustworthy.  The difference is.. the results.  I see it as negative and the other would see it as positive.  This difference would be the reason why we have a different type of relationship with person A.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 10:12:32 AM   
UncleNasty


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Trust is a very big issue/topic. I keep learning more about it, and I hope I never stop. I don't think I could ever know too much about what trust is, how to build it, how to earn it, when, where and to whom to give it, how to keep and maintain it. Or how to become more worthy of trust.

Trust looks and feels differently for all of us as individuals. Clear communication about what it is for both invloved is the best way to get there. That requires familiarity with our emotions and the courage to talk about and share them. That might actually be harder to find than trust, LOL.

I don't have to trust someone to be who or what I need. I can trust them to be who and what they are. Knowing the difference is important. Recognizing what kind of trust Im giving is as well. The hits come when I'm trusting them to be who I need when I would have done better to trust them to be who they need.

One thing I am certain of: You can't learn if someone is trustworthy without taking risks. If there is no risk then it doesn't involve trust. Without the risk any illusions of trustworthiness are just that, illusions, and not worthy of basing deeper or real trust on.

Comments others have made about "red flags" sit well with me. I pay attention when I see them, but try and gather more evidence before making bigger decisions. A red flag by itself doesn't usually provide enough information for me. A bunch of different ones, or a bunch of the same kind, are another matter. But I am well past kicking myself if I invest trust in someone and loose further down the line. If someone lacks integrity and are practiced at the arts of deception they can fool anyone. I won't kick myself for the first one, but I will for any that come after.

Be well, live free (and "You can trust me" LOL),

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 10:34:41 AM   
ownedgirlie


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He built trust by being consistant. 

Before I fully trusted I would doubt his intentions, as a way of self protection.  Every time my doubts proved false, I trusted more.   I learned I didn't have to protect myself from him.

Along the way I thought I trusted and would later discover I did not completely trust (when those doubts in certain areas would appear).

Recently trust was put to a very big test, due to some major outside influences.  Some of the old ghosts lingered around my brain but I was able to send them away.  Now I am certain of my trust in him.

Yes, I have trusted in others when I shouldn't have.  I think that's part of life and something that happens to everyone.

Yes, trust must be maintained.  My Master remained consistant, and that is what maintained and grew my trust.

Yes, trust can be mended when broken.  Maybe it was unfairly broken?  Maybe someone made an honest to god mistake and has made ammends for it?  I believe people deserve an opportunity to make things right, if they are truly remorseful for having erred.  But such an opportunity comes with a risk - they might fail to make things right.  They might err again and destroy trust completely.  Giving someone another chance risks becoming vulnerable - more vulnerable sometimes than one may be comfortable with.  Trust can be mended, but it is not always mended.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 10:38:28 AM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Time and again a person hears that "Trust" is wanted and needed in an intimate relationship for it to be successful over the long term.

So..... how do you establish and/or build "Trust" in your relationship?

When do you know you have Trust?   Have you ever thought yu had it... only to find out you didn't have it?  How did you lose it?  Did you give Trust when it's shouldn't of been given? 

Is "Trust" something you get and then you don't have to work to have it anymore... cause you just have it?  or is trust something you constantly most work on building and one needs to maintain it? 




While I've always believed that trust is an absolute, I also believe that there are different kinds of trust.   For instance: There's the kind of trust I feel when I know someone isn't going to injure me physically when I'm helpless and tied up, then there's the kind of trust when I believe that the person says what they mean and means what they say...or in other words... trust that someone is being honest with me.  The former is easy to find and easy to recognize, the latter, is not so common and much trickier to be sure of.

I don't really think trust is something that you can 'work' for, or work to maintain.  There's nothing you can do to learn how to be trustworthy, and there's no work you can do to prove that you can be trusted.  I think it either comes across or it doesn't.   I don't really understand trusting someone somewhat, and then trusting them more as time goes on and you see them "work" for it or "earn" it, as we hear so often.   I do understand trusting someone with certain things (ie your physical safety) and not trusting them with other things (ie your emotional well-being)  Whatever, you are either trust worthy or you are not, regardless of whether someone recognizes or believes which one it is.  

No,  I've never been wrong about who I could trust and who I could not.  Even in instances where I wanted to believe I did trust the person, the inner voice was always there trying to make itself heard to my conscious mind.

If you don't trust someone completely, you really don't trust them at all.  Which is why whole-hearted trust is very uncommon, though we may tell ourselves otherwise.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 11:32:51 AM   
piopunahele


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I've always looked at it a bit differently.  I trust everyone in a sense, because I trust people to be who they are.  It takes time to get to know a person, how they react, how they think, etc.  I don't put any expectations on them.  I don't expect them to put my feelings before their own, or to be reasonable or honest or whatever.  I trust that they will be who they are, period.  If a relationship ends, I don't look at it as "so and so lied," "so and so violated my trust," or "so and so betrayed me."  What I see is, "Well, I guess I didn't really know so and so."  Some people are predators and that's just who they are.  For the most part, time reveals them for who they are.  Just remember when you "feel like I've known him forever" that you really haven't.  It takes time to know someone and there's really no way around that. 


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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 11:33:46 AM   
lally3


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The answer is still Time... time will prove that a person is trustworthy or not trustworthy.

and is the worst trust to break, the one built over time.  for me that is the variety that i can never forgive.

i withdrew myself from close relationships for a while after my sons father screwed up and a close friend screwed up.  it wasnt anything i had control over it just happened, i kept people at bay.  in the end i realised that it was down to me to trust myself, not other people.  other people have their own agenda's their own hang ups and own needs.  what i give and extract from a relationship is down to me, my choice to make, my responsibility.

if i dont place a bar of expectation over another person it gives me the freedom to like/love them for who they are and not for what i hope they might turn out to be for me.

in the end noone has been put on this planet to validate anyone else, we meet, we like, we enjoy each other - or not.

trust doesnt equal love or endless tomorrows and yet that is what trust implies, that it is a pact to the bitter end or bust.  way too much pressure.  for me its easier to hand over the responsiblity of anothers actions squarely into their own hands rather than worry if theyre to be trusted or not.  let them decide, its not for me to assume.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 2:34:58 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Good morning, Knight.
 
A quick answer, to one of your questions: trust needs to be maintained, because it can be lost. Easier to maintain, and keep it, than have to try to reclaim it once it's gone.


yup, what he said.


*once again indulging in my habit of profiling posts that agree with me*

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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(in reply to christine1)
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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 3:01:55 PM   
HerLord


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*flexing my prowess*

Trust is good.
Trust me.
you'll see.



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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 3:04:25 PM   
nursygirl


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and what will you give me in return for my trust??

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 3:14:00 PM   
HerLord


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HAHAHA...

Trust. The only thing I TRUST implicitly, is the eventuallity I will die.  Trust. Big issues. non-definitive answers. Very subjective.

My Love Trusts me. Not for what I say I will do, nor for what I do. My Love trusts me, for she understands that I am ME. I will do what it is in me to do. If the neighbor kid around the side comes barging in here... My Love trusts I will put him in a box. If her Daughter comes screaming in the house, My Love trusts I will not. Trust to me is little more than knowledge, hence anticipation, of what is to happen. I trust that My Love's thoughts are of dedication and not betrayal. WE got to where we trust each other in TIME. This indeed seems to be the recurring theme... NAY, I say. It is not TIME but repitition. Time only goes by. It is only marked by the ticking of seconds. Trust does not so easily measure. There are varying levels/degrees of trust. The more repetative the person the more incline to consistancy. The more consistant, the more trust is established. This kinda links back to the three rules law. I am done for now.

Cali... I am looking forward to how this comes around to BJ's.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 3:57:36 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord


My Love Trusts me. Not for what I say I will do, nor for what I do. My Love trusts me, for she understands that I am ME. I will do what it is in me to do.


Trust = knowledge of the other person.
 
Veddy interesting.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 4:02:52 PM   
chickpea


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I totally agree with the different degrees of trust giving at different times.  I just like to think of giving trust in a more "organic way" being a woman using her intuition.  Sure it's important to give trust and see if it's kept and keep tabs that way in black and white terms. 

And I would venture further into white trust issues and black (serious) trust issues, akin to white lies and big lies.  Like if your friend borrows a shirt from a friend that wasn't using it and it doesn't cause any harm... white trust issue.  Or cheating when you're engaged or married, serious trust issue. 

I think that trust is built day in and day out on the little things largely, and then soon you have a big fat pile of trust.  Like does someone seem like they walk their talk, and say what they mean, and do what they say.  Or does someone seem to always say things they don't mean or feel, and things they say about their actions or life doesn't fit with what you observe.  These observations and things pile up over time, day in and day out and can lead to the road of more trust or less trust. 

Also, the atmosphere to building trust is important, like if the Dom is non-judgemental and non-critical, a submissive is likely to be more honest and more open with herself and her life, leading to more trust, rather than the opposite with a critical and derogatory Dom and the submissive begins to close up or act in other ways leading to less trust.  I think that Doms need to initially act more open with everything they do, so submissives give trust and be a good submissive, and i think submissives need to initially act non-judgementally and non-critically in order for Doms to eventually beable to be a Dom and be honest with whatever he chooses to do and know that his submissive will trust him in his decisions.

A lot of trust may be given initially to different people based on intuition because someone just seems trustable...then this person only needs to do a little in order to reach a big fat pile of trust.  While some other folks just *seem* untrustable and no matter what they do it's just very hard to give them the benefit of the doubt... they will have to work extra hard to that big fat pile of trust.  As an aside, I think allowing a submissive to trust at her own pace (tapping into her natural reactions/nature and letting her natural nature work in her submission, rather than forcing things based on a preconcived idea or goal in mind) is important in a healthy lasting super-strong BDSM relationship.  The less forced things are, the more natural and powerful the relationship can be if it's meant to be, that's another form of trust, trusting in the other person's feelings.

But yeah, if it's lost and the reasons behind it are forgivable, I think trust is salvageable.  Also, if the trust-breaker is truely repentant of her/his untrustable action, has apologized and is making efforts to change, I think it is salvageable.  I know a lot of dominants out there are very cut & dry, black & white, but I venture to go forth and say that lots of things in life are out of our control, including many situations that influence the way we act and feel in ways we would prefer not to, so keeping that in mind perhaps the cut and dry, black and white approach to trust isn't the healthiest if we are to build a lasting trusting situation with another human being -- rather than chasing a perfect idea, that usually never lasts long.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 6:38:22 PM   
petpete


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i think trust is needed to build a good relationship between people involved. That could happen with good communication and also with chemistry that has to do with each other, as to how ell they want to know each other and absorb each other to enter there pneumatic world.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/29/2008 9:03:55 PM   
Leatherist


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I need to be able to trust myself to do right by others first.

Then others can learn to trust me.

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RE: Building Trust - 3/30/2008 4:47:43 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Time and again a person hears that "Trust" is wanted and needed in an intimate relationship for it to be successful over the long term.

So..... how do you establish and/or build "Trust" in your relationship?

When do you know you have Trust?   Have you ever thought yu had it... only to find out you didn't have it?  How did you lose it?  Did you give Trust when it's shouldn't of been given? 

Is "Trust" something you get and then you don't have to work to have it anymore... cause you just have it?  or is trust something you constantly most work on building and one needs to maintain it? 




Trust is built by peoples actions, real trust anyways. Generally i kinda trust everyone till they do something that makes me wary innocent till proven guilty and all that but thats not real trust. Real trust is when someone says I promise you --- they do it its people that keep their words. I have actually found though that those who make the biggest song and dance about how valid their word is are the ones who are normally ALL talk.

I dont trust very easily, i may claim that I do but on a base level I am very wary of people, this is just common sense though all relationships of mine have broken down due to some type of lie be it that they are lying about something physical or lying about how they feel. Therefore i guess part of me always expects that to happen (yeah its cynical but thats life, anyone who is single now is yet to have had a totally successful relationship, no matter what the break up was, if it was amicable or whatever the fact is the same)

I have trusted people I shouldnt have in the past, despite what I said above I have still let myself get carried away in the words and forgotten to look at the reality.

Trust is constantly maintained, once its there you wont suddenly stop making promises or saying things that you still have to back up, one thing can tear trust up, it isnt hard to do and once its gone its gone, you can never trust someone after they have broken your trust because they have already proven that their words are no good therefore how can you ever trust any word that they say.

< Message edited by colouredin -- 3/30/2008 4:48:22 AM >


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RE: Building Trust - 3/30/2008 6:03:12 AM   
LaTigresse


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I think I like the concept of, taking personal responsibility for whom and how we trust, that I am reading. That it is MY responsibility to be aware, educated if you will, of the the type of person I am dealing with and what I can trust them to do and be.

Example: I can trust that my father loves me. I can trust that he may always drink too much, that he will more often than not follow up on something he said he will do. I can trust that if I go see him at 9AM, he will be somewhat sober, but if I go there at 4PM I should not expect deep conversation. I can trust that he will never be finished remodeling his house. I can trust that he will always be hard of hearing and that he loves watching baseball on TV. That he is more harsh with his dogs than I would like him to be, that he still loves his dogs. Etc etc etc.

I can trust myself to not need him to be anything other than who he is. That I know most all of his strengths and limitations. To not expect more of him than he can be or give.

I think the biggest breakdown of relationships is hoping, assuming, expecting.......someone be something they are incapable or unwilling, to be. We assume our expectations are their expectations. We do not communicate nearly enough. So when they do not meet our expectations, we turn the blame on them, say we cannot trust them. When in truth, we failed ourselves.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/30/2008 6:05:10 AM >


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RE: Building Trust - 3/30/2008 8:30:11 AM   
KnightofMists


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thank you LaTigresse... it seems you and understand trust in very similar ways.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Building Trust - 3/30/2008 8:39:13 AM   
VeryMercurial


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Wonderful topic and many wonderful replies.
Often trust is given far too easily and freely to those that have not earned it.
I will offer friendship, before I usually offer trust.
As many here have stated, trust is earned.
Once I see that you violate even the small trusts that I expect from you, I don't extend
larger trusts for you to violate.

< Message edited by VeryMercurial -- 3/30/2008 8:40:14 AM >

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RE: Building Trust - 3/30/2008 8:41:59 AM   
VeryMercurial


Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: piopunahele

I've always looked at it a bit differently.  I trust everyone in a sense, because I trust people to be who they are.  It takes time to get to know a person, how they react, how they think, etc.  I don't put any expectations on them.  I don't expect them to put my feelings before their own, or to be reasonable or honest or whatever.  I trust that they will be who they are, period.  If a relationship ends, I don't look at it as "so and so lied," "so and so violated my trust," or "so and so betrayed me."  What I see is, "Well, I guess I didn't really know so and so."  Some people are predators and that's just who they are.  For the most part, time reveals them for who they are.  Just remember when you "feel like I've known him forever" that you really haven't.  It takes time to know someone and there's really no way around that. 


This is also the way that I view life.
People will always show you who and what they are, if you just take the
time to wait.
I have come to the conclusion, that many people really don't want to see certain things.
I study people, and I always look more at what they do, then what they say.

< Message edited by VeryMercurial -- 3/30/2008 8:43:14 AM >

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