RE: Automatic respect? (Full Version)

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Griswold -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 4:48:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

I have been visiting another forum and a dominant in the lifestyle has caused a stir. She is very adamant because she is 62 and has 45 years of experience that she is due honorifics and automatically is due respect. I know because she repeatedly states" I have 45 years of experience and should be treated accordingly." My thing is that she is very rude and condescending to others. She is not showing respect to others so why should she be given any? Do you think a title, age and experience automatically give one respect? Or should their actions towards others determine respect?


I always follow a very simple rule:

If someone tells me they deserve respect based on what they've done....I watch what they do.

If what they do has any correlation to what they've said....I grant them their due.

If however, what they do has absolutely no correlation to what they say....

I tell them (of course...in the most submissive of ways [8D] )...."Go fuck yourself...and that piece of shit Ford you rode in on".



HerLord -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 4:52:31 PM)

LMFAO>>> thanks Gris...



sabis -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 6:08:50 PM)

I've been a member of a male-domination / female submission email list for about 8 years now. Back in November of 2004, we had someone show up and begin proclaiming that she was one of the ultimate authorities on BDSM because she had been published in various swingers catalogs and bdsm underground newspapers and magazines, and had been involved in BDSM for 42 years.  When folks on the list responded with comments much like I've seen on this thread (ie, respect has to be earned, it's not handed to anyone who walks in and declares themselves The Supreme Mistress of All), she went completely ballistic.  She was deeply and horribly offended that we did not all immediately begin deferring to her vision of the One Twue Way, informing us that people who only had 10 or 15 years in the lifestyle weren't experienced enough yet to know that she was right.  The conversation got downright comedic.
 
Her logic always circled around to, "respect has to earned?? I heard that a million times. It doesn't work  that way in the B&D world."  -- that you are what you say you are, and everyone else must buy into it and act accordingly.
 
I went to her website and reviewed her 'Rules for Dominants' and then posted them to the list, showing examples of how she had violated her own iron-clad rules for a dominant's behavior. My summary included my belief that this poster had to be an impersonator, for surely the Grand Mistress couldn't possibly be that out of sync with her own rules and mission statement, and we should all ignore the impersonator. 
 
The most ironic part was that she was attempting to dominate the entire list by having them submit to her outrageous demands of titles, honorifics, and 'respect' (ie agreeing with everything she said)... on a list with a focus of MALE domination...
 
In His service,
 
~sabis
owned by Cumulus

[Mod Note: email address removed]
 



Daddysredhead -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 6:12:38 PM)

No one deserves automatic respect as far as I'm concerned.  Start demanding shit like that from me, and I'll probably flip my switch to bitch, just because.....



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 7:20:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

She is not showing respect to others so why should she be given any?
 
Because how we treat others says more about us than about them... do either of you realize that?

quote:

 Do you think a title, age and experience automatically give one respect?

Sometimes... why do we tend to open doors or show extra courtesy to the elderly if not because of their age?  Why do we tend to look to those who have worked at something for years for advice on how that should be done if not for their experience?  If you were actually invited to the royal court of England for an audience with the queen herself... would you not bow as instructed, address her as instructed... all because this is due her title?  (Granted, I might not... but you get my point.)

quote:

Or should their actions towards others determine respect?

I think that was a rhetorical question.  But here's another... if someone has earned a title, or spent time accumulating experience... are these not actions to be respected?  Is this not beneath that respect for the elderly... because on some level we assume they've earned some measure of it over the years?

Course... then there's the question of whether someone actually does have experience or titles... or how they've lived all those years.  Never said this was going to be simple.


If someone comes out with all guns blaring and being rude and belittling others I don't see how her "experience" gives her that right. When othes have thrown the olive branch and she still is extremely belittling then I think she is just a raging bitch with a superiority complex.



tahlly -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 7:26:07 PM)

I have not read any other responses, so my apologies if this has already been mentioned.
 
I think that all too often the words respect and courtesy are confused or are used in a way that they seem to be one and the same.
 
I have often run into others who demand that they be shown 'courteous' behavior; ie Mistress, Ma'am, Master, Sir...the titles had nothing to do with respect and everything to do with being courteous. I have no issues with being courteous towards another if this is how they perfer to be addressed.
 
For myself, respect is something totally different; it is something that a person must earn, and then fight to retain. A person earns my respect by their actions/deeds; not by their title.



HerLord -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 7:30:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

If someone comes out with all guns blaring and being rude and belittling others I don't see how her "experience" gives her that right. When othes have thrown the olive branch and she still is extremely belittling then I think she is just a raging bitch with a superiority complex.

Damn... at first I didn't like this person at all... but now.. superiority bitch sounds like someone I wanna fuck.



candisa -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/30/2008 8:31:52 PM)

greetings sweetnurseBBW,
I believe that everyone is entitled to simple courtesy, being polite and respectful of another human being. respect on the other hand, in my opinion must be earned and that is done over time. experience or seniority does not automaticallly warrant respect, it mearly means that there might some wisdom to be found.



Masterssj -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 12:53:46 AM)

demand it and i will not give it , earn it as my Master did and i will be fiercely loyal .... to others i will be courteous but that does not mean i will be submissive to them in any way shape or form since they are not my owner ...



madshysoul -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 1:11:30 AM)

"Being important is like being a Lady, if you have to tell people you are... you aren't"  - Margaret Thatcher.

She said it better than I ever could. Courtesy is given, respect is earned.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 1:48:40 AM)

If someone, even rudely, asks for a honorific, I use it. Why? Because it's not up to me to judge them unless they're wanting to interact in a physical or sexual way with one of mine. Then, I want to see their experience. Otherwise, who cares? They now, deep down, if they are lying or not and they know, deep down, how much damage they continue to do to their psyche by lying.

I just look at it like this: if someone is demanding that they be called "Uber Dom" or something, I treat it like a child who is insisting on being called their full name. In the end, it doesn't hurt the child to indulge them and, hopefully, they'll grow out of it.

Master Fire



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 1:50:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madshysoul
Courtesy is given, respect is earned.



Ha! You said what I've been thinking! When someone demands the honorific, I do so out of courtesy. No respect is implied.

Master Fire



Najakcharmer -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 10:06:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
I know a woman who is adjusting to the idea of not being shown the level of respect she had become accustomed to.
This woman had worked for a long time with a group that had provided one of two top level local play and education spaces, she had been involved in the start up of an event that had served for many as an eucational forum where they got there start.

Burn out and other things had left her going private, later other things brought her back out and she floundered for awhile.
all her "cache" built up respect for things she had done, the knowledge she had built up and shared etc, had disappeared as the folks she had been around to introduce and educate years ago were in many cases no longer involved in the community. Took her awhile to adjust to the idea that, Yes she had paid the dues, worked for the community but the community has a short memory sometimes.


I put myself in that position on purpose, and it feels just fine.  At one point I had "A Big Name" in the community because I was a major organizer of events and community projects, owned a dungeon, and had a strong online presence in the original Usenet groups and early mailing lists.   My experience in having "A Big Name" and being treated like an Important Scene Person was largely a big fat pain in the ass, and made it difficult for me to quietly enjoy other people's events without assorted bullshit coming down. It wasn't even that the vast majority of it was negative stuff, it was just community related crap and expectations and responsibilities.  When I switched coasts, I changed my scene name and didn't tell anybody where I'd gone.

Re-entering the scene on a different coast as a total nobody was a blessed relief because people don't bug me any more.  My responsibilities begin and end at showing up, having fun, cleaning up after my own self and leaving.  I'm not a Big Name and I've strenuously avoided becoming one again despite the occasional temptation to help out, organize, teach, etc.  I have paid my dues to the community and then some, but I'm just as glad that memory is short, because I'm done paying and want to enjoy being just another member in peace. 

They say different strokes for different folks, and it's true.  I'm not a shy person and it's not self-confidence that I lack, but I honestly can't think of anything less fun or more annoying than being famous and sought after, even on a local community level.  No clue what the attraction is for others.  Watching people scrabble for respect and recognition is kind of like watching them nose-mining for boogers.  I don't quite get why they want any.



Najakcharmer -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 10:14:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

Greetings O' High Lord Master Grand Poohbah of the Known Universe (Except That Part of Poughkeepsie Which Nobody Wants Anyways)! 

How's it shaking? I like the new pic :O)


Cool, thanks!  Er, I mean, on your knees, lowly peon, for thou art addressing the Great God-Emperor Ruler of All, Master Of Thy Eternal Destiny, Wielder of The Mighty +3 Flogger "Kittensquisher" and Keeper of the Ancient Secret Book of the One True Way of All BDSM!

Ancient BDSM Saying (okay, about ten minutes old, that counts for ancient in an AOL chat room):  If you cannot laugh at yourself, other people will generally be delighted to do it for you. 



sirguym -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 12:05:13 PM)

I presume respect, until there is a good reason to act otherwise.

I am very proud of what I've done over the years in the scene.

But  I would be a fool to expect anyone else to put the same value on my experiences as I do.

But I find those without experience sneering at those who have been there and paid their dues a disgusting sight.

If you're lucky you'll be one of them one day; if not you'll be a casualty along the way.

The arrogance of youth and inexperience is simple naivete. Until you've been tested you'll not know your strength.

Never judge a man , or woman, until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

In the meantime, at least pretend respect; because maybe they deserve it, maybe they don't, but being polite never hurst and can often help.






RCdc -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 12:09:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madshysoul
respect is earned.



No, it isn't.  It isn't a commodity to be bartered.
 
the.dark.



Padriag -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 7:18:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

If someone comes out with all guns blaring and being rude and belittling others I don't see how her "experience" gives her that right. When othes have thrown the olive branch and she still is extremely belittling then I think she is just a raging bitch with a superiority complex.

I don't think you entirely understood my point so I'll be more direct.

This person... whom it is I don't know, nor do I care... is being rude according to you.  That's her choice, her actions reflect on her.  Clearly, in your eyes, its marked her as a "raging bitch with a superiority complex," and may have done so in the eyes of others as well.  That the consequence of her actions.  How you react to her will say much about you... and how you are marked in the eyes of others.  Understand?

As for her title, experience and age... if those claims are true, then yes... they do entitle her to some measure of respect... which may be somewhat mitigated by her behavior... but even still... if someone has worked at something for a long time, worked at perfecting some craft or skill... that's to be respected (even if we find we don't like the person very much or not at all).  Not liking someone and whether we respect them are two different things... we can hate someone's guts and still have a high regard for their skill, ability, accomplishments, etc.  Understand?

If her claims are true... an operative and pivotal question.  This is the internet, people can and frequently do make all sorts of claims.  How do we know anyone has earned a given title, has X years of experience or is even of any specific age, gender, location, etc.?  When John Warren, the author of The Loving Dominant, first appeared on these forums he was met with skepticism and questions as to whether he was who he claimed... took a bit before that was generally accepted.  If a public figure has to prove themselves in that way, a fairly well known author in BDSM literature... I would say anyone less known had best expect a great deal more skepticism and take it in stride.  So while yes, if such claims are true I'd say those accomplishments should be respected... but, there's that rather large "if" looming there that needs to be addressed.  Understand?



sweetnurseBBW -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 7:20:31 PM)

I got it the first time and didn't need you to clarify. Maybe I didn't make that clear. Understand? Oh maybe now I am being a bitch, but that could just be a perception. Get my point? Your response could be perceived as snarky and condescending. Doesn't make you point anymore just makes you look like you are being condescending.  That is how things get started on the internet. All about ones perception.



DreamyLadySnow -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 7:21:57 PM)

Anything that you have to demand from others, is something not worth having.

LS



angelic -> RE: Automatic respect? (3/31/2008 7:36:31 PM)

She's probably a guy yanking everyone's chain, and then laughing at the stir he has caused.  It has caused so much of a stir it has gone from one internet forum to another.  So in essence, this person now has attention on two internet sites. 

I do not personally have a fast and hard rule as far as giving respect.  It depends totally on the circumstances and the person and could change over time.

However, if someone came onto a forum that I frequented and enjoyed, and was just generally a pain in the ass, I would block, ignore or do whatever that particular forum has available.  Life is just too short and I work hard for my bandwidth.



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