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RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/22/2004 11:34:07 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Berlin, you are saying that you will fall in love with anyone who comes along? That you have no control? I don't believe that for a second. If you don't choose, who does? Love only happens when you decide to let it happen. Nobody can make you love them. Just as nobody can make you submit to them if you don't want to.

(in reply to MzBerlin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/23/2004 8:02:47 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: muse

We do choose to breath and for our blood to flow. We have the right and ability to end our lives any moment we choose. Not the best karma to send out but it is still a choice. As for the choosing who we love, *sighs* i can only wish this were always true. Many a heart has been broken by loving one who was not capable to return the love.


We do have the right. We do have the ability. I concur, muse. I also agree that it would do some serious damage on the karma side, for those of us who believe in that, to make a negative choice. Not everyone does (believe in Karma). There have been times when I've come close to considering that right, and that ability, but that will to live is awfully strong. lol If you ask me what my friend Sam's phone number is, I will not be able to tell you. Hand me a phone, and I'll dial it, while continuing the conversation with you, and hand you the phone. No problem. So consciously, no, I'm not aware that I "choose" to breathe, or even that I am breathing, other than that "I guess I'm dead" feeling is missing, lol. But I am aware that I could certainly "choose" not to, if the required conditions were present. *ahem* This is one of those things that could go round and round forever, until someone says, "Loooook, I'll show ya..." Oh My!!! lol And we certainly don't want to go there!!! lol If people can bend spoons with their mind, maybe they can control their blood flow. Ya never know!!!

Regarding whether or not we "choose" who we love. I can't actually go out on a "limb" here, with what I am about to say, because I stay on one pretty much all the time. I confess...I live on a limb. *sigh* Of Course we do!!! And I have loved some absolutely Incredible people, and still do. My heart has never been broken by someone leaving, or by a "break-up", or in any "relationship" associated way. So I can't actually relate to that aspect of it. However, I do feel it when someone I care about is hurting as a result of relationship pain. Pain is an indicator that something is wrong. There's a problem. Problems can generally be fixed with some time, communication, honesty, sincere application, and Mickey Mouse bandaids. So good, or bad, when that feeling, all warm and wonderful, tugs on our heart strings...we make the choice whether or not to respond. We choose.

That was my two common cents...and the coffee is good.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to muse)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/23/2004 9:54:20 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings A/all,

Once again i'd like to submit my humble opinion on a topic...

First, i very much agree that my submission is a gift bestowed upon me. Secondly, i would also concur with the idea that a Dominant's Mastery over me is likewise a gift to myself. All this being said, i do believe that my submission is a gift to my One. Please allow me to explain...

my submission is a gift to my future Master. When i submit to a Master i give of myself to Him. i do not do this lightly or in any sort of play sense - i am simply unable to do so. i chose to give this, it is not taken. This i realize contradicts O/others' views however, it is the best (and realistically only) option available to myself. If it were any way otherwise i would not be partaking willingly. Can one truly give of themselves completely if they do not desire to do such?

my submission is a gift to the world.
i strive to live myself in a way that i might bring some peace, kindness, understanding, reassurance, love, friendship - whatever i may be able to bring to the particular situation. i was blessed with qualities and strengths - my place is to strengthen these as much as possible and give of them so that others might benefit. i hold myself to higher standards than i do others. Can i be perfect? sigh* no Can i continually strive for perfection so that i can grow, learn & mature and better assist others? Yes! Could i do anything less than this? No!

In short, i see my submission as a gift because if i did not i would not be able to give of myself so freely & fully. Submission is not something i do because it pushes one of my kink buttons but because i feel fulfilled in being given the opportunity to please, to assist and to serve.

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/23/2004 10:05:53 AM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Berlin, you are saying that you will fall in love with anyone who comes along? That you have no control? I don't believe that for a second. If you don't choose, who does? Love only happens when you decide to let it happen. Nobody can make you love them. Just as nobody can make you submit to them if you don't want to.



I don't think that's what she's saying at all :). You don't choose who you love though, you can work at making it happen, you can try to make yourself dislike a person, you can even find reasons to convince yourself not to love them and decide not to acknowledge that love... but when it comes right down to it, love is something that just happens on its own :).

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/23/2004 10:09:45 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

Can i be perfect?


"Imperfection" is the Human Condition. Therefore I aver, we are all perfect in that.

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to Destinysskeins)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/23/2004 2:33:09 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I know you two are discussing Karma and stuff, but I gotta quote Rush. (The band not Limbaugh.)

If you choose not to decide
you still have made a choice

We now return you to you existential topic.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/23/2004 2:35:26 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

"Imperfection" is the Human Condition. Therefore I aver, we are all perfect in that.
Lady Beckett

All generalizations are wrong. Especially this one.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to LadyBeckett)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 7/23/2004 2:43:36 PM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry Pixie,

This is hardly a reply to what you wrote but more of an IMO. (Actually I agree with you but why praise when I can blather about myself?)

I do not see my submission as a gift. It is going to happen almost of it's own accord if I have any feelings for the person. (For me, submission must be based in love [in a general sense that includes all the "good" emotions]) Is my exhaling carbon dioxide a gift to my fern? How about it giving off oxygen in daylight, is that a gift to me. (No, not quasi-religiously, I mean like $5 in a birthday card, not a sunset.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to pixieunleashed)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 1:40:47 PM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline 		I think that referring to one's submission (or dominance, for that matter) as a gift is a wonderful bit of poetry. Like poetry, it is deep, personal, and speaks to the more romantically inclined. It is also, like any form of poetry, poorly defined and subject to a number of different interpretations. Not to mention the fact that anyone using poetic allusion is invariably going to be targeted by cynics looking to make a cheap joke at someone else's expense.

I will add this to the debate, referring back to some references regarding trolls and other HNGs - I some times find myself being presented with the gift of submission. It is not a gift that I want, and I find myself desperately looking for a receipt so that I can take it back to the store and trade it in for a nice pair of fuzzy slippers. More often than not, I wind up uncomfortably patting the person on the head, explaining to them that it isn't really appropriate in this stage of the conversation to be picking out matching collars or anything else, and otherwise trying to be nice about this gift I have been given, and trying to decide if they expect me to put it on display in the front room and if so how often will they be coming to visit. I get a lot of gifts like that - crudely drawn pictures, lumpy clay objet d'art, books on subjects I have no interest in, et cetra.

In a proper, reciprocal relationship, I would say that, to an extent, submission is one of many gifts given by one lover to another as part of their adoration. Dominance can be extended the same bit of poetry. When it works, though - when you and yours are in that wonderful, blissful state, it is far more than a gift. It's a blessing, a communion. When you can see God in your lover's face, it goes far beyond some mere trinket to place on the shelf.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 6:10:10 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pixieunleashed


I think that the idea of making the act of submission a "gift" that I can give to someone, somehow cheapens it. I cannot "gift" someone with my love. Implying that my love it a gift is an egotistical way of thinking, especially when it is one of those things that either is, or is not. I cannot "reward" someone with loveing them, I either do or do not. I cannot reward someone with submitting to them, I either do or do not.
I agree whole heartedly.

Master always jokes, "Did that gift come with a receipt, so I can exchange it if it's not what I want?" "What happens if I re-gift your gift?"

I do what I do because the situation makes me happy, not because he's earned a reward. He does what he does because the situation makes him happy, not because I've earned a reward.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to pixieunleashed)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 7:33:02 PM   
lanie38


Posts: 120
Joined: 9/14/2007
Status: offline 		I just don't get it! I don't do *a* submission, it's not a thing to give...it's a verb. I submit. I'm submissive to him.

just don't get it. I don't do submission, it's not a thing.
And why anyone should perceive what is essentially an aspect of my personality, a gift??? I don't get...to me it reeks of conceit on the supposed giver's part..but of course this just my personal opinion


_____________________________

Don't be so humble...you're not that great. ~ Golda Meir

(in reply to pixieunleashed)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 7:57:24 PM   
MakeMeSmile4U


Posts: 710
Joined: 4/27/2008
From: South Florida
Status: offline 		I'm one of those that believe my submission is a gift.  It's right there in green and black in my profile.  I've also had several emails from Dominants telling me I'm full of myself.  Maybe I just didn't express myself properly, but I definitely think of 'my' submission as a gift because while I feel it's an inherent part of my personality, it's not something I choose to give to just anyone.  I guess what I'm trying to say (and doing a poor job of it, too) is that my submission is not just there for the taking by anybody who wants it.  By the same token, I see the gift given to me by a Dominant as well.

Did that make sense to anyone besides me??

(in reply to lanie38)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 7:59:59 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		The "gift of submission" only goes to show that Dominants are not the only narcissists around here.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 8:17:00 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		wow.. that is an old thread, 2004.  I think gifts were in back then.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 8:20:03 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeMeSmile4U
it's not something I choose to give to just anyone.  I guess what I'm trying to say (and doing a poor job of it, too) is that my submission is not just there for the taking by anybody who wants it. 
I don't date just anyone. I don't have sex with just anyone. I'm friends with just anyone. I don't love just anyone. That doesn't mean that date with me is a gift. It doesn't mean that my friendship is a gift. It doesn't mean if I have sex with you, it's a gift. It doesn't mean that if I love you, it's a gift. What you're describing is being choosy.

A gift is given expecting nothing in return. A gift is given with no thought as to what will happen to it after you've it, other than hoping that the recipient will enjoy it. Is that how you feel about your submission?

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MakeMeSmile4U)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 8:22:15 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeMeSmile4U
it's not something I choose to give to just anyone.  I guess what I'm trying to say (and doing a poor job of it, too) is that my submission is not just there for the taking by anybody who wants it. 
I don't date just anyone. I don't have sex with just anyone. I'm not friends with just anyone. I don't love just anyone. That doesn't mean that date with me is a gift. It doesn't mean that my friendship is a gift. It doesn't mean if I have sex with you, it's a gift. It doesn't mean that if I love you, it's a gift. What you're describing is being choosy.

A gift is given expecting nothing in return. A gift is given with no thought as to what will happen to it after you've given it, other than hoping that the recipient will enjoy it. Is that how you feel about your submission?


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/11/2008 9:04:31 PM   
teirtu


Posts: 19
Joined: 4/11/2004
Status: offline 		Everyone is analizing this to death but it's quite simple.  Submissive is no more a gift than dominance is a gift.  ALL relationships are based on getting our needs met, whether it be boyfriend/girlfriend... husband/wife... boyfriend/boyfriend... dominant/submissive or master/slave.   This discussion is so old... everyone forgets we are people first. 

(yes... some have made this point... I'm not discounting them... I just can't quote them but you know who you are)

(in reply to pixieunleashed)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/12/2008 5:01:54 AM   
Suleiman


Posts: 1127
Joined: 9/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

wow.. that is an old thread, 2004.  I think gifts were in back then.
Kyst


My bad - I thought it was a little more current than that. I didn't want to derail another thread entirely with an off-hand comment, so I did a quick search for a more apropos line of discussion.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/12/2008 5:03:36 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Lets get one thing straight. In some societies you don't chose who you love. Marriages are still arranged. How many times has George Clooney been loved?  There are a lot of marriages out there from out of convience. As far as gifts go. Fathersday is sunday buy me a gift. I don't care if you give it to me while your naked. How do you give yourself as a GIFT to someone. What if they don't want you. Do you go back to a store and get a refund.

(in reply to teirtu)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: my thoughts on the "gift" of submission - 6/12/2008 9:10:59 AM   
MakeMeSmile4U


Posts: 710
Joined: 4/27/2008
From: South Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeMeSmile4U
it's not something I choose to give to just anyone.  I guess what I'm trying to say (and doing a poor job of it, too) is that my submission is not just there for the taking by anybody who wants it. 
I don't date just anyone. I don't have sex with just anyone. I'm not friends with just anyone. I don't love just anyone. That doesn't mean that date with me is a gift. It doesn't mean that my friendship is a gift. It doesn't mean if I have sex with you, it's a gift. It doesn't mean that if I love you, it's a gift. What you're describing is being choosy.

A gift is given expecting nothing in return. A gift is given with no thought as to what will happen to it after you've given it, other than hoping that the recipient will enjoy it. Is that how you feel about your submission?



Well, yes, actually.  You said what I could not, thanks :)

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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