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RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 7:27:59 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You
By agreeing to play, the Dom assumes the responsibility to (at the very least) contact the submissive partner a short while (usually 24 hours or so) after play, to check on how the sub is doing: mentally, emotionally, and physically.


I dunno what rule book you got that little gem out of, but it's not something I subscribe to.

If I've AGREED to that being part of the arrangement together, sure.  Otherwise, not at all. 


It is in "The True Dom 101" handbook, chapter 4 .

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 7:28:04 PM   
agoodgirl4Daddy


Posts: 336
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You
By agreeing to play, the Dom assumes the responsibility to (at the very least) contact the submissive partner a short while (usually 24 hours or so) after play, to check on how the sub is doing: mentally, emotionally, and physically.


I dunno what rule book you got that little gem out of, but it's not something I subscribe to.

If I've AGREED to that being part of the arrangement together, sure.  Otherwise, not at all. 


That's pretty much mny take on it too-a girl is welcome to call me if she is experiencing issues after the fact.  But I don't consider anything a DUTY unless we agree to it.

Then again,I base my relationships on individual interactions-not stereotypes other people consider to be "proper".



Maybe it's not a "DUTY"..but it shows compassion, integrity, care, and respect.  To me that is not just something I look for in BDSM relationships..it's something i look for in regular ol nilla friendships.

_____________________________

~We do not see things as they are - we see them as we are.~ Anais Nin

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 7:30:18 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agoodgirl4Daddy
when someone wants to be a "regular play partner"...and then doesn't treat me well... yeah...he's dishonorable.  especially when he knows that i had a massive case of bottom drop after being beaten severely.  

a one night stand that is just that..not as bigga deal to me...especially when it was just sex ..... but an emotionally and physically intense scene that leaves the bottom reeling....that does seem to me to be a reason to behave like a caring human being.  and i may be strange..but when the Top has a primary partner..it isn't something i like to have to do to phone him to talk...  (she does know..and was there...that we scened). 

As I said- when it's AGREED upon, then sure.  Otherwise, no.  Try to think a bit beyond the borders before suggesting someone is dishonorable because they don't do kink the way you do it.  I don't think many people would consider THAT to be a very honorable trait to hold.

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(in reply to agoodgirl4Daddy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 7:32:49 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agoodgirl4Daddy
Maybe it's not a "DUTY"..but it shows compassion, integrity, care, and respect.  To me that is not just something I look for in BDSM relationships..it's something i look for in regular ol nilla friendships.

Do you know people who hate cuddly aftercare?  Do you know people who LOVE to just be fucked and used and beat really badly and never see the person again?  On a regular basis?  Because I do.

Would it be compassionate or respectful to play with that person and then demand that they get the aftercare that they know they hate?

Not providing aftercare or providing aftercare isn't a sign of anything other than what that particular relationship decides it's a sign of.  Don't push YOUR ideals of compassion on MY scene/relationship.


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to agoodgirl4Daddy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 8:01:27 PM   
agoodgirl4Daddy


Posts: 336
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: agoodgirl4Daddy
Maybe it's not a "DUTY"..but it shows compassion, integrity, care, and respect.  To me that is not just something I look for in BDSM relationships..it's something i look for in regular ol nilla friendships.

Do you know people who hate cuddly aftercare?  Do you know people who LOVE to just be fucked and used and beat really badly and never see the person again?  On a regular basis?  Because I do.

Would it be compassionate or respectful to play with that person and then demand that they get the aftercare that they know they hate?

Not providing aftercare or providing aftercare isn't a sign of anything other than what that particular relationship decides it's a sign of.  Don't push YOUR ideals of compassion on MY scene/relationship.



if it's a known fact (and the person has STATED it) - that they want NO aftercare..that is not the issue. 

what i'm referring to is when someone (aka, the D type) knows that aftercare is important to the person (aka, the s type)...and knows that the person has had a particularly emotional response to the scene. 

i suppose the rule of thumb for me would be...had it not been adequately discussed..i would err on the side of caution and drop the person a quick phone call or email or text or IM (isn't technology fucking great?) just to say "Hi...i really enjoyed our scene and i hope you're doing well... let me know how you are when you get a chance." 

hmmmm...is that so hard??




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~We do not see things as they are - we see them as we are.~ Anais Nin

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 8:54:04 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

i suppose the rule of thumb for me would be...had it not been adequately discussed..i would err on the side of caution and drop the person a quick phone call or email or text or IM (isn't technology fucking great?) just to say "Hi...i really enjoyed our scene and i hope you're doing well... let me know how you are when you get a chance." 

hmmmm...is that so hard??

No, but it means we agree with my statements- one is not a dishonorable, non compassionate disrespectful top just because one doesn't automatically provide a particular form of aftercare for each and every scene with each and every person.  It would be wrong to assume such things, especially with no clear commitment agreed to.

Enjoy your rule of thumb, it's not a bad one at all.  But don't smear that into a whole set of personality traits or suggest it should be some exalted rule for all.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to agoodgirl4Daddy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 9:06:53 PM   
PonyGroom


Posts: 150
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You
By agreeing to play, the Dom assumes the responsibility to (at the very least) contact the submissive partner a short while (usually 24 hours or so) after play, to check on how the sub is doing: mentally, emotionally, and physically.


I dunno what rule book you got that little gem out of, but it's not something I subscribe to.

If I've AGREED to that being part of the arrangement together, sure.  Otherwise, not at all. 


That's pretty much mny take on it too-a girl is welcome to call me if she is experiencing issues after the fact.  But I don't consider anything a DUTY unless we agree to it.

Then again,I base my relationships on individual interactions-not stereotypes other people consider to be "proper".

One well known rule book is the BDSM page at the Society for Human Sexuality site, http://www.sexuality.org/authors/lauren/AboutBDSM2.html
This is "non-famous lauren" writing under the topic "Tools of Consent: Aftercare".
It's a fairly well known, long standing, and well respected rule book.

Or perhaps you would prefer to read Midori, "Wild Side Sex"?  That's available on Google books online.  Page 92 is where she mentions "next day check in".

Of course, there are exceptions to so many rules.
And Liz, you are nothing if not exceptional.

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 3/31/2008 9:14:56 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Since the OP begged for the interaction and he clearly tried to cut it short from the beginning she might have been better off taking that clue.   He wasn't that into her.  They are both involved with other people, he chose to engage in a little piece. 
I would have blown him off when he started begging off.
But that is just common sense to me, it isn't hard to tell when someone is looking for a way to cut things short.
How committed can a person consider themselves if both parties have committments elsewhere?  Is it realistic to consider feelings if you really dont have an investment in them?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: agoodgirl4Daddy


what i'm referring to is when someone (aka, the D type) knows that aftercare is important to the person (aka, the s type)...and knows that the person has had a particularly emotional response to the scene.  


hmmmm...is that so hard??





_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to agoodgirl4Daddy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/1/2008 7:43:24 AM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline 		I will call and check on my bottom if the play requires that, not all play does.  Are there wounds that may need attention after then yes.  If it was just light play and there was no talk about calling then hell no there will not be a call.  One play session does not make you his sub, and unless you talked about the call there is no need for it.

Mike


(in reply to agoodgirl4Daddy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/1/2008 9:05:38 AM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Do you know people who hate cuddly aftercare?  Do you know people who LOVE to just be fucked and used and beat really badly and never see the person again?  On a regular basis?  Because I do.



And do you know their phone numbers?

C~


_____________________________

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/1/2008 4:13:17 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs
And do you know their phone numbers?

C~

LOL girl you probably know more of them than I do :)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/1/2008 6:31:36 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

fter nearly two months of texts, chats, and one brief encounter, I met the man I had decided to be my Master for a weekend, well, what was supposed to be a weekend. Seeing as we both had to be discreet, I was only able to get away for a weekend, and we had been planning it for quite sometime.


starry,

Move on and learn. Your another victim of not really knowing who and what he was. I preach till I am blue in the face about allowing sufficient time to know and explore each other on line and then phone and then actual realtime.

In two months neither of you did so and you pay the price.

CP

(in reply to starrystarrynite)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/1/2008 9:15:00 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Since the OP begged for the interaction and he clearly tried to cut it short from the beginning she might have been better off taking that clue.   He wasn't that into her.  They are both involved with other people, he chose to engage in a little piece. 
I would have blown him off when he started begging off.
But that is just common sense to me, it isn't hard to tell when someone is looking for a way to cut things short.
How committed can a person consider themselves if both parties have committments elsewhere?  Is it realistic to consider feelings if you really dont have an investment in them?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: agoodgirl4Daddy


what i'm referring to is when someone (aka, the D type) knows that aftercare is important to the person (aka, the s type)...and knows that the person has had a particularly emotional response to the scene.  


hmmmm...is that so hard??




Sadly, this was my thought to what the OP has asked....was this a case of sub frenzy?..was this a case of desperation on the subs part?....possibly....To the OP...instead of reflecting on the negative from this experience.,.try to take away from it as a lesson learned...to grow from this...and to become more aware...and most of all to enable yourself not to sell yourself short the next time around..most men appreciate a woman who is aware of her own desireability...Tempting

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(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/1/2008 11:13:46 PM   
ShadowKing


Posts: 13
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: West Richland, WA
Status: offline 		I am going to have to agree with Floggings4You, the Dom does have a (greater) responsibility to understand what the sub needs and provide it. As the one in the position of power, it is the D that must be aware of whether the s may need a check in or not.

As for the OP, she needed to look at the D's behavior, not his words. Weak people will say anything, but a true person of power will show it in their actions.

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/2/2008 7:33:13 AM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		It's My own personal rule.  I'm not sure if I first got the idea from a book (My sub is currently reading My copy of SM 101 and The Loving Dominant, so I can't look it up to say whether or not I read it in a book, or not.  But, it is also something My Mentor taught Me, and I think its a good rule. 
 
I've read numerous posts by submissives (men and women) here, and elsewhere, who feel abandoned by Doms who don't contact them for weeks after play, who have to seek medical treatment by themselves, etc.
 
BDSM is an intimate, deeply personal, form of sexual play.  I think knowing how give good aftercare is just as important as knowing how to use the tools One carries in One's toybag...      

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/2/2008 7:38:26 AM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		LuckyAlbatross: "I'm dishonorable because we're at a kinky convention on the last day of a four day exhaustive kink a thon, we hook up for a night of hot awesome sexy play, we both leave early the next day because we have to catch flights to get home and get ready to go back to work the next day and we don't talk on the phone?

I think bottoms forget they need to offer aftercare as much as the top- how dishonorable is that?"
 
When playing at public events, I think the Dungeon Master(s) or host(s) of the party assumes much of the responsibility for being available to anyone who needs aftercare, once the event is over.
 
If play is taking place in your hotel room, though, I still don't see anything wrong with taking the time to exchange phone numbers.  (If nothing else, what if they leave something in your room?  Wouldn't T/they want to be able to contact you, to get it back?  Wouldn't you want to be able to get it back to them?)

< Message edited by Floggings4You -- 4/2/2008 7:40:43 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/2/2008 7:46:23 AM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Do you know people who hate cuddly aftercare?  Do you know people who LOVE to just be fucked and used and beat really badly and never see the person again?  On a regular basis?  Because I do.


"Beat really badly?"
 
This phrase raises several red flags for Me.  I suppose, if the two people in question have seen each O/other at play parties, and know the O/other's style and preferences, T/they could agree to play together--once--and engage in some pretty severe stuff.
 
But, a submissive who would meet a stranger to engage in being beaten "really badly", is asking to wind up in a barrel along Route 69. 
 
And, a Dom/me who would agree to meet a stranger and beat that person "really badly" is asking to be brought up on charges.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/2/2008 7:57:35 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

If it was this friday, then you know something about him as a person from the fact that he hasn't contacted you
barring an emergency
thats what you need to process
don't listen to my words, words lie, watch my feet, they tell the truth of me everytime



Kana-
You are absolutely right.
OP-
Most can talk the talk...and there is no reason not to believe them to be who they say they are...until you cant. Please try not to become emotionally attached to someone until you have seen how they behave in common situations...like whether they call you after you play....its hard to not let the internet create a psuedo-intimacy, but for your own sake you have to try.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/2/2008 5:00:52 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You
\When playing at public events, I think the Dungeon Master(s) or host(s) of the party assumes much of the responsibility for being available to anyone who needs aftercare, once the event is over.

You expect maybe three DMs who were monitoring an event to be responsible for all aftercare for the hundreds of people who may have been playing that night?  A DM who walks the floor from 10-2 on Sat night at Black Rose in DC should be able to be called by some newbie sub in Lubbock on Wed at 3 am because she needs some aftercare?

quote:


If play is taking place in your hotel room, though, I still don't see anything wrong with taking the time to exchange phone numbers.  (If nothing else, what if they leave something in your room?  Wouldn't T/they want to be able to contact you, to get it back?  Wouldn't you want to be able to get it back to them?)

There's nothing wrong with it- simply that one should not expect it unless it has been agreed upon and should not assume it is some universal law, because it isn't.

And no, plenty of people do NOT want to talk to someone they've fucked and played with for a few hours.  Sometimes that's a big part of their kink.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Floggings4You)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Have I become a discarded sub? - 4/2/2008 5:02:25 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Floggings4You
But, a submissive who would meet a stranger to engage in being beaten "really badly", is asking to wind up in a barrel along Route 69. 

And, a Dom/me who would agree to meet a stranger and beat that person "really badly" is asking to be brought up on charges.

LOL I'll let everyone at Leather Retreat know.  They'll find it quite amusing.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Floggings4You)
Profile   Post #: 60
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