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RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 11:38:44 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

If your Masters says you do not need one, you do not.
 
the.dark.

 
As usual, you said it first. 

I know some Masters who swear by them and find them incredibly useful and valuable.  I know others who do not.  My Master did not want one, so we do not have one.  This has worked out just fine for us. 

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 12:18:39 PM   
epiphany


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/31/2004
Status: offline 		  I was recently asked to write a draft of what I felt should be included in my contract. It was a very interesting assignment.

   I started out writing all kinds of things, and then would go back and delete. I would realize that I had said something that was covered elsewhere, and delete more.   We have known each other so long and discussed so many things, that I couldn't find a need to include those previously agreed to either.

Finally I ended up with about one page that pretty much said " I belong to you, and I'll trust you in all things". I realized that I had been in a process of giving myself to him all along, and that it had become complete. This was a great tool to get to that place of recognition. There was nothing to negotiate, or work out...it had been done all along the way. The contract was merely a formality. This was exactly what he was hoping I would see.


Now, the interesting part, for me, is the paper he is now working on. It will state what areas he wants control in and to what degree / way, now that he knows  I recognize him as my owner and accept that he will decide in what ways he will have it.

epiphany




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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 12:21:26 PM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Our agreement was formed similarly.  I wrote the draft and then he reworked it to suit his preferrences.  It was a good experience for me as it helped me verbalize what I wanted in print for re-read purposes.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to epiphany)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 12:25:22 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		I take the point that 'some' may find it a useful communication tool and refference point to opening up discussions. Personaly I don't tend to need such, especialy with metalmiss, the level of communication is very high anyhow and there are no 'sacred cows' or no go areas when it comes to discussion. Not for her and certainly not for Me.

Maybe it is easier on this with TPE given if it isn't about her choise to walk away, everything else is Mine.

Like with her post, thats just what works for U/us, different things will work for others. Horses for courses.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 2:53:07 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

If your Masters says you do not need one, you do not.
 
the.dark.

 
As usual, you said it first. 

I know some Masters who swear by them and find them incredibly useful and valuable.  I know others who do not.  My Master did not want one, so we do not have one.  This has worked out just fine for us. 


I can't disagree more.

If a submissive feels they need a contract to spell issues out clearly, before they are collared, then that's exactly what they need.  The contract may be the one thing the submissive needs to feel they have communicated their desires clearly. 

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 3:02:24 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
I can't disagree more.

If a submissive feels they need a contract to spell issues out clearly, before they are collared, then that's exactly what they need.  The contract may be the one thing the submissive needs to feel they have communicated their desires clearly. 

Stephan



It is my belief that a Master knows his property well enough (or in my opinion, he ought to) to know whether or not she needs a contract.  And if he says she does not, then she does not.  She might really want one and claim it is a need, but she must defer to him and what he deems is appropriate for her. 

If what you say is true and the contract is the one thing she needs, then surely her Master would know that, or he has no business being her Master yet, or at all.  I answer posts from my own perspective and experience.  And if my Master says I do not need something, then I do not need it.  I am, of course, given an opportunity to try to convince him otherwise if I feel really strongly about something.  But ultimately, it is his assessment and decision.    I used to claim to "need" a lot of things.  He claimed I didn't...and, lo & behold...ultimately he was right.

I know there is an opinion contrary to mine which claims the slave knows what she needs better than he Master does.  I respect that opinion, but I do not agree with it.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 3:32:35 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
I can't disagree more.

If a submissive feels they need a contract to spell issues out clearly, before they are collared, then that's exactly what they need.  The contract may be the one thing the submissive needs to feel they have communicated their desires clearly. 

Stephan



It is my belief that a Master knows his property well enough (or in my opinion, he ought to) to know whether or not she needs a contract.  And if he says she does not, then she does not.  She might really want one and claim it is a need, but she must defer to him and what he deems is appropriate for her. 

If what you say is true and the contract is the one thing she needs, then surely her Master would know that, or he has no business being her Master yet, or at all.  I answer posts from my own perspective and experience.  And if my Master says I do not need something, then I do not need it.  I am, of course, given an opportunity to try to convince him otherwise if I feel really strongly about something.  But ultimately, it is his assessment and decision.    I used to claim to "need" a lot of things.  He claimed I didn't...and, lo & behold...ultimately he was right.

I know there is an opinion contrary to mine which claims the slave knows what she needs better than he Master does.  I respect that opinion, but I do not agree with it.


I am going to add my thoughts to this as well.
I completely agree with OG - no surprise there.  I do understand Stephans POV and I believe that a s-type should be and feel able to voice his/her desire and if that means, during negociation of a new relationship, or even once within a relationship, they feel a contract would help them focus, then by all means they should make the request for one.
But I ultimately believe that the dominants decision is the final authority and that as s-types, we enter relationships with an authority that we understand knows what is correct and best for us as an individual and as a dynamic.
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 3:34:14 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		He and I dated, played and got to know each other  for 4 months before He proclaimed His love for me and His desire to own me.  This is His first relationship of this type and my second, although the first one was seriously lacking in so many ways.... it almost doesn't count. 


Anyway, we don't have a contract, but certain expectations, needs and wants were made clear by both of us as we got to know each other.  We talk about anything and everything, and when something new comes up, we discuss it like two people in a committed relationship.  The fact that He is Master and I am slave, doesn't change that fact.  Works for us!

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 4:11:52 PM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
If a submissive feels they need a contract to spell issues out clearly, before they are collared, then that's exactly what they need.  The contract may be the one thing the submissive needs to feel they have communicated their desires clearly. 



If a Master states He doesn't want/require a contract but the sub/slave only believes they have 'communicated their desires clearly' by having one and wants to 'insist' then they may as well call it quits there and then as there is neither the level of communication nor trust in that relationship to build much on.

IMO of course.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Is A Contract Necessary? - 4/1/2008 6:41:22 PM   
DarkVictory


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline
I see a lot of 'contract not neccessary' postings in this thread.  I disagree strongly.  If she's to be a slave, and in order to secure full access to her bank accounts, a full power of attorney, a full medical power of attorney, and a lien against present and future earnings, you need a contract.  Actually, you'll need a series of contracts, some notarized and witnessed, some simply signed.

If you go into the world of her relinquishing rights to offspring, or to her refusing parental support, it becomes substantially more complicated than the above.

Also, while it is not a contract, a witnessed document in which she specifically details the kinds of activities she is submitting to is extremely useful.

I personally have been burned with this.  In a prior relationship, the submissive was eager, enthusiastic, and willing to engage in first light, then moderate and later on edgy BDSM play.  This led to a full time, 24/7 Master/slave collared relationship.  This went on for years, and we were/are well known in the local community as that kind of couple. No thought ever entered my mind that things would change.  Now she's had a full-on nervous breakdown, suicidal ideation depression, and heavy medication.  She now says and believes that a) she was only ever a light player, b) I abused her terribly, and c) that certain things and requests never happened.  Friends of ours feel betrayed by her radical re-interpretation.  I and my family am subject to the most vile slanders from her.  Our vanilla friends are suddenly exposed to things they *never* wanted to know anything about.

Luckily, I gained access to a family computer on which she had stored letters, advertisements for submissives, gushing reviews of play scenes, etc.  This documentation could easily have been erased by her at any time before I could copy it.

If you're going to play in the Master/slave arena, and if you're going to play hard or edgy, be smart please.  Document the consent and store it away safely.  Document the ongoing nature of the consent.  Document and make legal the actual nature of the power exchange.  You may not need it today, it may not be romantic, and it even may crush the spirit of play that is present... but do it.



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Is A Contract Necessary? - 4/1/2008 6:43:55 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		And what law lets you enforce a slave contract? 

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Is A Contract Necessary? - 4/1/2008 6:44:10 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		They come in handy if you have to go and out of tp.Like many have stated they aren't worth the paper they are written upon....

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US going to hell in a hand basket/

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 6:46:16 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		I think you should listen to what your Master says instead of ignoreing his answer and asking a bunch of internet strangers to comment on what your relationship needs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddyslilpookie

Hi, I married to my Master and I his slave, my question is, is a contract nessecary? I have asked Master and He says we don't need one. I asked him well, I want to know what is expected of me as his slave. He said do my chores, take care of our daughter and be obedient to him. Do you think a contract is necessary for us? Do many married D/s couples have contracts?

(in reply to Daddyslilpookie)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 6:58:51 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		He and Alandra are married and I live with them.  We do not have a contract in the BDSM sense.  Since they are married to each other there is a legal contract between the two of them.  We are also researching other legal contracts (wills, power of attorney, etc) so that he and/or Alandra has the legal authority to make certain decisions for me if I am unable to and vice versa.  These things are legally necessary to ensure that we can act in each other's stead should the need arise. 

In regards to a BDSM contract, we do not think that it is needed for us.  He has authority over everything in our life and he sees no need to spell that out on paper.

For other people, having the contract and paperwork is something that adds value and enjoyment to their relationship.  For us, it does not.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to Daddyslilpookie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Is A Contract Necessary? - 4/1/2008 7:44:28 PM   
w1cked519


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/26/2008
Status: offline 		Can anyone provide a place to view contracts so a new sub can get an idea of what one includes or how it is written?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 8:29:54 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Well put Archer.

PS..why don't you say something silly so I know that your mortal.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Is A Contract Necessary? - 4/1/2008 9:02:10 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: w1cked519

Can anyone provide a place to view contracts so a new sub can get an idea of what one includes or how it is written?


they are written using standard legalese either by yourselves or by a legal specialist, theyarerearely or if ever binding in themselves .. they merely provide formalised evidence of what is going on within the dynamic

I can show you a draft of a document - or more accurately series of documents - matching what Dark Victory describes above... but if you're a newbie sub... i would start somewhere less specific than that and to be honest ... much less scary the type of documents that make TPE an actual reality ... not for the faint hearted

< Message edited by softness -- 4/1/2008 9:03:45 PM >

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 9:34:27 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Do you think that words on a sheet of paper are going to make eveything perfect?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/1/2008 9:50:35 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann
If a submissive feels they need a contract to spell issues out clearly, before they are collared, then that's exactly what they need.  The contract may be the one thing the submissive needs to feel they have communicated their desires clearly. 



If a Master states He doesn't want/require a contract but the sub/slave only believes they have 'communicated their desires clearly' by having one and wants to 'insist' then they may as well call it quits there and then as there is neither the level of communication nor trust in that relationship to build much on.

IMO of course.



Amen. The tail should not be wagging the dog.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Is A Contract Nessecary? - 4/2/2008 1:04:57 AM   
AS11


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		Archer: I most certainly agree, although time consuming, thought provoking, tedious, and mentally emotionally taxing, the contract in its end serves much like a guide book for living, as well as a five ten and twenty year plan for achieving goals amassing wealth and preparing for old age happiness. It serves, as arbitrator, as grounder and balancer, often requires neither addendum nor amendment but those options are always available. I agree but view a contract as much more than just words on paper.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 40
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