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MBDom4sub -> anal stretching / fisting (10/4/2005 8:35:32 PM)


I've started anal training with my sub to eventually lead to anal fisting.

Wondering:
1. how long to expect before seeing permanent changes in her anal sphincters?
2. what recommendations to maximize the efficiency of the stretching process?
3. is Crisco / lard the best grease to use?

please feel free to share any other thoughts on the process. thank you, ~R~




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/4/2005 8:39:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub


I've started anal training with my sub to eventually lead to anal fisting.

Wondering:
1. how long to expect before seeing permanent changes in her anal sphincters?


Are you wanting permanent changes? Or are you asking so you can prevent it from happening? I honestly don't know, I haven't done much anal other than ordinary regular anal sex.
quote:


2. what recommendations to maximize the efficiency of the stretching process?

Relax, sexually stimulate them at the same time to enjoy it and get into it more and do it regularly.

3. is Crisco / lard the best grease to use?
No, specially if you're using condoms or any latex products. Use water based lubricants, and plenty of it.



MBDom4sub -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/4/2005 8:51:43 PM)


Question 1 is so I know when training can be eased. I'm assuming when stretched, the sphincter will want to go back to normal size. Therefore successful, PERMANENT stretching should require prolonged oversized stretching until the new size is achieved.

I'm a bit of a zealot when it comes to this stuff and am prone to do too much too fast. Hell, when I met her she couldn't take 2 fingers vaginally without being uncomfortable. 2 months later, I'm snapping photos of pepsi cans in her pussy while she's cumming uncontrollably.

As much as I want her stretched enough to accomodate a fist, I don't want her sphincter damaged to where she's shitting herself every 15 mins. ~R~




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/4/2005 8:57:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
Question 1 is so I know when training can be eased. I'm assuming when stretched, the sphincter will want to go back to normal size. Therefore successful, PERMANENT stretching should require prolonged oversized stretching until the new size is achieved.

Like you said, you don't want her to have to worry about shitting all the time, so I can't see why permanent stretching would be a goal. Again, I'm not certain of the answers so I'd suggest talking to a doctor or reading Tristans anal sex book.
quote:


I'm a bit of a zealot when it comes to this stuff and am prone to do too much too fast. Hell, when I met her she couldn't take 2 fingers vaginally without being uncomfortable. 2 months later, I'm snapping photos of pepsi cans in her pussy while she's cumming uncontrollably.

This can also be a function of practice. I do lots of kegels and stretching for myself, and the vaginal walls are a lot stretchier and elastic than people think. Depending on what I want, I can make it too tight or extremely open.

Also remember that the vagina's function is to take something into itself while the anus' function is to push things out.

quote:


As much as I want her stretched enough to accomodate a fist, I don't want her sphincter damaged to where she's shitting herself every 15 mins. ~R~

In my experience, the more you do something anally, the more comfortable and easier it gets to go into, but there's always a period of adjustment and build up, there's always a bit of pain and easing into things. I don't think you have to permanently alter things just to be able to fist.



FLButtSlut -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/4/2005 9:10:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub

Question 1 is so I know when training can be eased. I'm assuming when stretched, the sphincter will want to go back to normal size. Therefore successful, PERMANENT stretching should require prolonged oversized stretching until the new size is achieved.


Permanent? So you want her to not be able to control her bowels anymore? That is what will happen with "permanent" stretching. As for when you can "ease" training....here is a general rule that should be very helpful. If your sub is no longer finding it unbearably painful, mission accomplished.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
I'm a bit of a zealot when it comes to this stuff and am prone to do too much too fast.


If you are that prone to "too much, too fast" try stretching yours a bit and I'm sure that will cure that problem pretty quickly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MBDom4sub
As much as I want her stretched enough to accomodate a fist, I don't want her sphincter damaged to where she's shitting herself every 15 mins. ~R~


Does she need to shit every 15 minutes? If she doesn't normally, then even if you damaged things, she is not likely to start shitting every 15 minutes. There is no specific "time limit" to how long something like this can take to achieve. Each individual is different and their bodies work in different ways. Go slow, work at HER pace, not your overzealous one (again, doing some anal stretching on yourself should cure that need to "rush" her).

One final thing....some people will NEVER be able to achieve anal fisting. It requires more than just stretching, it requires a LOT of relaxation, tons of trust and lots of lube. You don't mention whether or not the two of you engage in anal sex and how that goes. I would recommend not even trying anal fisting until she is comfortable with anal sex regularly. And I do mean COMFORTABLE, not she does it because it pleases you, but that she does it, it doesn't cause her the least bit of discomfort, perhaps she even enjoys it. When you get that going well, then you can think of moving on to bigger and better things (pun intended).



Hallittlelolita -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/4/2005 9:11:20 PM)

All i can say about this thread is OUCH!!! [:@]That would hurt and yes it can lead to permanent damage so be very cautious. All i know is my Master would not do that to me and thank goodness for that[;)]

Sincerely andie and Her Master Hal



FLButtSlut -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/4/2005 9:42:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Also remember that the vagina's function is to take something into itself while the anus' function is to push things out.

quote:



Actually the vagina's function is to let something OUT, as in a baby. The walls of the vagina are made to accomodate a newborn's head and shoulders, the anus is not.



nephandi -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 3:49:10 AM)

The anus is rather flexible, i am up to four fingers in my butt, and not long after it is back to regular size, only way to stretch permanently would be to damage the anus, severly, and then she will have problems whit shitting herself, she will possible have to ahve operations, she might get seriously ingured and need to be rushed to the doctor. Anal fisting can be enyoyable if you are careful, but are your sub awere you are planning on mutilating her and do she agree to that?

quote:

If you are that prone to "too much, too fast" try stretching yours a bit and I'm sure that will cure that problem pretty quickly.


That is just to adorable hehehehehe. [:D]



MBDom4sub -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 8:40:30 AM)


I think I was a little tired last night as upon reviewing my work, I found the questions raise more questions than they ask.

When I talk "permanent stretching" I mean stretched to the point where she'll be easily fistable without much effort and I distinguish that from damaged meaning the sphincter is ripped and no longer functions.

both conditions equal a looose anus but obviously the former is preferred.

nephandi: appreciate your post - yes my sub understands and looks forward to the transformation.

~R~




night101owl -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 9:29:37 AM)

I typed up a lovely list of resources, then my computer ate it! Damn!

It sounds like you're interesting in handballing/anal fisting, and you want that to be fun and easy, but you don't want your sub ending up with infections or anal leakage, right? What you're looking to do is expand the flexibility of her sphincter while keeping it strong and healthy-- that's a far cry from permanent stretching! It's a muscle, and like most muscles, in can be made stronger and more flexible, and it is also susceptible to damage.

Here are some resources:
http://www.sexuality.org/l/sex/handball.html
http://villagevoice.com/people/0538,taormino,67945,24.html
http://www.puckerup.com (click on "anal advisor")
Trust: The Hand Book by Bert Herrman
The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women by Tristan Taormino

There are a several associations of handballing enthusiasts (mostly/all leathermen), so do a google search to see if there are any locally, because they might be able to provide some good pointers. For lubricant, I would recommend something synthetic that's specifically made for anal lubrication-- Crisco might work in a pinch, but it doesn't stand up to modern miracles of science. You want something thick and oil-based. And you want a lot. There are some people who will speak up and say that they don't need lube, but the tissue here is very delicate so don't fuck around-- use lube.

If you really want to work up to fisting or double fisting, a lot of it is going to be in her head. Scary rough play can be fun, but this muscle is only partly controlled by the conscious mind, and if she clamps down, it's going to be difficult. Starting out, focus on relaxation-- the more turned on she is, the more she'll be able to relax.

Go slower than you want to. Slow and steady really does win the race here, because it only take a small tear to cause a serious infection (and some people can never really relax once they've had bad anal trauma).



nephandi -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 11:27:35 AM)

Well the anus can be trained to stretch, just like for example your legs, try to sit down on the floor, your legs completly paralel to the floor out on both sides, usualy at first you can n ot do it, but whit training the mussels, joints and everything learn to acept the stretch and you become more liber, so to whit the anus.



JustaTop -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 12:18:25 PM)

Stretching is merely a function of relaxing and adding extra skin to the interior lining of the rectum. The last thing you want to do is to tear either skin or muscles by going too large, too fast. Gradual dilation done over time should not affect continence issues,so long as she also tones the muscles along with it.

The only real horror stories I have heard with concrete foundations about women ending up in diapers were from idiots who forced things too fast. Things like giving birth can have a similar effect on urinary continence-again,too large,too fast-things tore. So long as you are VERY aware of the comparative fragility of the area you are working with-and research DECENT lubricants ,like "sex grease"-there should not be any real issues.

Patience rules in long term goals like these-view them as such.



sultryvoice -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 12:45:35 PM)

As has been stated throughout this thread, be careful, be very careful..Being overzealous is harmful not helpful. Take your time...go very slow...take the time SHE needs and wants...just because you want it doesn't mean she can do it, even if she has given consent....remember to take the mind along with the physical....do try relaxation excercises along with muscles excercises...when she is relaxed, the goal will be closer..

Resepctfully,
sultry



kasiani -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 3:22:33 PM)

May be that photo will act as a caution to Your eagerness.. I love anal sex, but i shrink in horror when i think that the damage of my sphinxter could end in this. Admittedly, that was caused by something else, but damage never less. I have seen similar images from sexual overuse.. I agree that You should be very comfortable with each other just have anal intercourse before You atempt anything more drastic

[Mod note: photo removed - community standards]



ed408 -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/5/2005 4:38:41 PM)

The (fortunately) now gone site of goatse was another example of taking things way too far....
Should you want to see some serious capabilities just google brad johnson

If butts were supposed to open that much we'd be born elephants.



DomButNotForgotn -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/6/2005 1:15:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ed408

The (fortunately) now gone site of goatse was another example of taking things way too far....
Should you want to see some serious capabilities just google brad johnson

If butts were supposed to open that much we'd be born elephants.



I googled Brad Johnson, and found nothing about anal sex. Apparently theres a Brad Johnson from the NFL who is very anal-retentive (detail oriented?) on the field, that's all I found in more than 30 sites...



RiotGirl -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/6/2005 4:50:00 PM)

LOL me too



nephandi -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/6/2005 4:56:15 PM)

Basicaly what i ahve heard is that anal fisting is often a bit painful, and that is not a problem unthil it get to mutch, listen to your sub, a bit of pain sure fine, but if it get unbearable you are doing somthing wrong, try stretching a mussle, by carrying somthing heavy, a little pain simply mean the mussle have taken just a bit of damage and will heal back stronger, strong pain means you ahve done actual ingury.

While i have seen pictures of girls taking 2 liter bottels in a ass (ouch.) and seaming to do just fine, i think it takes a grate deal of time to get to this point.



ed408 -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/6/2005 4:58:09 PM)

My apologies. It is Kirk Johnson not Brad Johnson.

Note to self - never multi-task especially when dealing with very disparate topics... ;)



Wolfie648 -> RE: anal stretching / fisting (10/6/2005 5:18:44 PM)

My personal experience with my slave is this:

I have never used extremely large buttplugs with her (yet muwahaha ;-), but I am an anal sex enthusiast. 5 years later, her anus looks different than when I met her (I would say I am a typical girth for a male). It looks minimally relaxed. She has never suffered damage to her anus and the anus should NEVER be entered forcefully (unlike a vagina >:-> ) unless your goal is to cause irreparable damage (the diaper kind), and/or cause your sub massive amounts of pain for potentionally months (anal tear/perforation) after the trip to the hospital.

I guess my point is that I really haven't done anything extreme with her and yet noticed a small difference - I can only imagine that fisting would cause a greater effect. She has no difficulty with bowel movements or controlling them.

For lube I find that Astrogel or KY works the best - over my, uh, career (sadly not vast), I have found no-one that has become irritated with those, whereas many other lubes have caused irritation. Some people are more sensitive than others. I also find that it being thicker, it works better. I have never tried crisco.

Also - with regards to enemas (you probably want to have her do this before, but not everyone does...) you should wait at least an hour afterwards before starting any anal play - this allows the mucous membranes (natures lube) a chance to recharge.

There are actually 3 sphincters in the anus - 2 at the opening (exiting?) and one about 9 inches farther up (although my experience with this is that it's not that far up, the book I read (Anal Health and Pleasure) said it was about 9. The lower bowel is usually empty unless said person is about to have a bowel movement. Results may vary :-)

I would never use a product like poppers or Analease (desensitising creams/lubes). Your victim, er sub, needs to know and be able to communicate whats going on down there.

D (owner of j)




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