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drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 4:52:49 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		This was reported on TV last week, and Level's Mosquito thread jogged my memory on it - these are the sort of scumbags who prey on kids hanging out in the street.

Apparently, with the price of drugs falling to ever lower levels, gangs are not making the kind of profits they would like, and have turned to a whole new level of depravity in making up their income.

Initially, they were into bringing east European girls over here with bogus promises of office work and the like. Once here, the girls would be sold as slaves into prostitution. But the police have been under a lot of pressure to disrupt this and theyve had some notable results, so the gangs have changed their source of supply.

What they do now is to seek out young British girls - but not any British girls; only the white girls, and befriend them. The girls think they have a wonderful older boyfriend, who looks after them, buys them things and treats them like an adult, allowing and encouraging them to drink, smoke and have ample access to drugs. Once hooked, theyre sold into prostitution. The whole thing is better than bringing in girls from outside the country, because these girls dont need accomodating as they go home when their work is done.

By then, the girls are far too frightened and ashamed to do anything or say anything to friends or family. And with good reason. Because of the grooming process the gangs know where they live, and make threats to firebomb homes should a word be breathed of whats going on. The gangs can act with impunity with threats to the girls' whole world. They phone the girls at home when its time for work.

The technique of course is nothing new. Pimps have done it for years. Whats new is the industrial level of operation.

One case featured was that of two girls from Bradford who fell into this world. When they threatened to tell they were each beaten, and because of the beating the social services got involved. The girls were taken from their homes and put in care 100 miles away. A very short time later, their "boyfriends" showed up at the care home and abducted them, raped and beat them again. The "boyfriends" got sentences of just six years each - which means three years under early release, less time served on remand awaiting trial.

When one considers the possible penalties for the gang members, in the very unlikely circumstance they are ever charged, against the profits, it would seem a reasonable business risk. And with the supply of goods constant, cheap and willing, and a healthy market for sales and profits, its an attractive proposition. 

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.
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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 4:57:31 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Lady E, sometimes I just want to nuke half the world.
 
There's a woman I know, she turned out her UM. Fuck. We are such a fucked up species.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 5:18:08 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Thats one of the contributing factors Level; kids today want to be treated as adults and that produces huge frictions in households, often resulting in the child leaving home or being thrown out. Its easy to blame the parents, but really there is nothing the parents can do - the law has them powerless to control the child, and the whole youth culture promoted by the media is one in which the kids are encouraged to become adults well before they have the emotional and psychological maturity to be aware of, let alone to be able to manage the risks of the adult world.

I really think we have to look properly into all this and absolutely change our ways. I am ever more sure that we need to stop the "softly softly" approach in our country - whilst some are able to control themselves (and its from this quarter that the softly softly approach has arisen - foolishly thinking that everyone thinks and does as they do), the plain fact is that most of the population requires almost draconian measures and to be forced into control.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 5:22:38 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

the plain fact is that most of the population requires almost draconian measures and to be forced into control.



Wow, LadyE... I didn't realise you were in favour of such radical authoritarianism. Sounds a bit drastic to me. How exactly do you propose you achieve such a goal?

edit: abominable mistake.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/3/2008 5:38:01 AM >

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 5:33:04 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I would really prefer it to be different KS. But then I would categorise myself as one of those fools who thinks that everyone thinks and acts as I do, with self control, morality and so on. Its becoming ever clearer that unfortunately the reverse is true. Its not that for instance, 90% of the population are bad all the time, but it seems clear that 90% of the population are quite prepared to take advantage of the laxity and softly softly approach we have. Of course, its human nature to make the best of one's situation, but when we engineer a situation that can be taken advantage of and is repeatedly taken advantage of to the detriment of the whole, its foolish to perpetuate that situation and extend it further only to have such advantage and detriment perpetuated and developed.

How to bring about a solution in whole I dont know. What I do know though, is that a justice system such as we have is no match for the situation, providing neither deterrent nor rehabilitation. And I also know that the socio-economic system we have does not encourage anything but deviant behaviour. And that unless we can get it together in this country, we're only ever going to see things decline further.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 5:42:05 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

And that unless we can get it together in this country, we're only ever going to see things decline further.



Every generation thinks that the new generation is more degenerate than they were in their youth.

I shudder to think what it was like in Dickens' London: do you truly believe things were better then?

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 5:57:01 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The 19th century is so wholly incomparable that to attempt a judgment would be pointless. The world has changed enormously in a very short time from then to now, and more rapidly and to greater extent than at any time in history.

But yes, as compared to the mid 80s when I was a teenager, it has definitely become worse. And I do not blame the youth, nor (before anyone suggests it) immigration. I blame those who have engineered the situation, believing that enlightened values are widespread, when they are not, and those who have allowed the widespread deterioration of the requirements of society in the quest for individual advantage - again believing that everyone subscribes to the positives of that thinking.

E

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:01:16 AM   
petdave


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

the plain fact is that most of the population requires almost draconian measures and to be forced into control.



Wow, LadyE... I didn't realise you were in favour of such radical authoritarianism. Sounds a bit drastic to me. How exactly do you propose you achieve such a goal?


Well, i think the general idea is that once folks see the light and accept LadyE as their Queen, everything will just kinda work itself out

Personally, i think there needs to be a two-pronged approach. First, legalize prostitution and drugs. Second, we need to bring back effective punishments like hanging people in the town square (might need to bring back town squares first). Really solves the whole recidivism problem.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:03:10 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		E, it seems as though you are mixing up two different problems: the mushrooming of prostitution gangs (of which I know very little), and the "youth of today". Are the gangs in question controlled by very young people? And if so, how is it an indictment of falling society's values? For example, I remember the eighties as being a violent decade, with skinheads roaming all over the place, football hooligans creating havoc, riots and Thatcher - why do you think the eighties were a more benevolent time? I think times are changing, for sure, and change is always frightening, but I don't believe it's worse than past changes.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:04:51 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

First, legalize prostitution and drugs. Second, we need to bring back effective punishments like hanging people in the town square (might need to bring back town squares first). Really solves the whole recidivism problem.



I find your humour a little dark, first thing in the morning  .

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:05:14 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Well at least youre on message Dave. Its only a matter of time before I'm Queen, and your support will not go unrewarded.

Would it solve anything to legalise prostitution and drugs? It would certainly reduce the number of cases like this - most punters would prefer to buy legal too. But there is a black market in everything.

Hanging and flogging might seem attractive answers, but theyre not.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:08:18 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

E, it seems as though you are mixing up two different problems: the mushrooming of prostitution gangs (of which I know very little), and the "youth of today". Are the gangs in question controlled by very young people? And if so, how is it an indictment of falling society's values? For example, I remember the eighties as being a violent decade, with skinheads roaming all over the place, football hooligans creating havoc, riots and Thatcher - why do you think the eighties were a more benevolent time? I think times are changing, for sure, and change is always frightening, but I don't believe it's worse than past changes.


The problem is that we are far too lax in every way.

Criminals act with impunity here.

The young women think they should be able to act as adults.

The criminals take advantage of the young women.

The young women are not to blame.

The criminals are only doing what they do in the numbers they are doing it, because the system is lax - they are liable, but the blame for their success lies elsewhere even from them.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:12:14 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Hanging and flogging might seem attractive answers, but theyre not.

If you want "strict control" of the population, they had better become answers. Either that or, as your first act as Queen, order a massive prison building program.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:18:01 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The death penalty has been discussed at length here and its pitfalls are too obvious to require restatement. In the same way that the death penalty is unsuitable to the need, flogging is also unsuitable to the end. (though good fun in measured doses).

As for prison, this has been discussed at length here too, and its failures in its aims noted. We do need more prisons, but not for every offender, only those who are dangerous and who may not be released should they still represent danger, regardless of how many days have elapsed since initial incarceration.

Penalties need to be more serious, but this is only half of any solution at best.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:28:16 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Penalties need to be more serious, but this is only half of any solution at best.



How about prevention and education? Or is it not demagogic enough?

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:35:46 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
The death penalty has been discussed at length here and its pitfalls are too obvious to require restatement. In the same way that the death penalty is unsuitable to the need, flogging is also unsuitable to the end. (though good fun in measured doses).

So much for strict control of the population....

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:36:11 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Prevention and education are what we have been doing for years - but unless the social framework is strengthened it is largely a waste of time and resources. We cannot tell people to behave and at the same time provide no incentive to behave and every incentive and no real penalty for misbehaviour, and expect it to stick.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:39:36 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Prevention and education are what we have been doing for years - but unless the social framework is strengthened it is largely a waste of time and resources. We cannot tell people to behave and at the same time provide no incentive to behave and every incentive and no real penalty for misbehaviour, and expect it to stick.

E

No punishment.
No prevention.
No education.

So what is your solution? Don't rant about what doesn't work; say something about what will.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:41:20 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
The death penalty has been discussed at length here and its pitfalls are too obvious to require restatement. In the same way that the death penalty is unsuitable to the need, flogging is also unsuitable to the end. (though good fun in measured doses).

So much for strict control of the population....


It was you who mentioned strict control of the population

I mentioned "almost draconian measures and to be forced into control" which is not at all the same thing.

Your comment indicates 3rd party direct authoritation control, such as is the case in China.

I am interested in generating self-control through providing strong penalties for lack thereof, and incentives for demonstration thereof - both of which we lack in our current model, meaning that any need for self-control is lacking.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: drug gangs' new stock in trade - 4/3/2008 6:42:49 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I'm not sure I agree with you... I don't think there has been any real effort on the part of society in general to educate its offsprings against the dangers of the culture of greed and acquisition.

I blame the corporations: their fucked up work ethics and pernicious advertising and brainwashing are largely responsible for the ills you are denouncing.

They are the ones that should be made to pay damages; and make them pay for schools, and pay the teachers better salaries, while we're at it.

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