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RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:11:59 AM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

I think the most important thing you can teach ANYONE is to differentiate the difference between fantasy and reality-what works,and what is a crock of crap.

The FIRST thing I tell anyone who wants my time and energy is this: "I'm NOT your fantasy construct,or anyone else you have ever known. And if you think I SHOULD be,get your ass out the door NOW."

There are worse things than being alone-like being a feeding appliance for a whack job.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/5/2005 11:12:22 AM >

(in reply to MasterDirkNC)

Post #: 21

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:21:17 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

<deleted>

Man, that's the fastest tail tuck'n'un I've seen in a while.

[Mod note: Please watch the personal comments]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 10/5/2005 2:05:47 PM >

(in reply to JustaTop)

Post #: 22

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:30:02 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

,...it does -not- make you look good to go through and delete your posts.

Why not leave 'em up, and admit either a) you were wrong or b) you don't like the responses and choose no longer to participate in dialog. Either way, give the people coming after a chance to read and agree or disagree.

Though, many kudos to the boards for civil and interesting disagreement.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 23

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:38:06 AM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

Hmm,I wondered about that too.

What was that again.....some can dish it out,but don't seem to be able to take it?

Problem being,that minute you get quoted,you are well and truly screwed-you CANNOT delete THAT.

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 24

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:40:46 AM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Thanks to Quivver, we've still got the original post...though apparently he wasn't serious when he said at the end that he "welcomed all feedback"

ORIGINAL: MasterDirkNC
One of the strengths of this lifestyle is independence. The independent development of discipline and service is also the greatest weakness of the lifestyle today. Dominants and submissives meet in chat rooms and websites and spar and fence, each applying personal definitions one to the other. The submissive cult is growing, yearning to be safe and to serve (and top from the bottom), and it is attempting to define the Dominant. Dominants see submissive power growing and yield publicly, adopting the submissive definitions, submissive speak, becoming little more than the whip hands for a growing herd of untrained, undisciplined, harpies. Paying to play in other words by conforming.

One overall set of definitions, one generally accepted discipline, and one basic set of guidelines for the training of submissives, as well as Dominants, would help to define the lifestyle, and return control to the Dominants. Common sense indicates that those expected to rule, to train, and to identify the submissives, should control the lifestyle and the relationships that develop as a result of it.

What do submissives want from Dominants?

What definitions and terms should all Dominants know? Submissives?

Should Dominants be trained as submissives, then as Dominants? Or be mentored by older more experienced Dominants? Many submissives feel that Dominants who were once submissive understand them better, others feel that those Dominants are more apt to Switch.

How can Switches be viewed with more respect? Currently, while many do treat them with the respect that they deserve, many more treat them with the same sort of disdain that the vanilla world tends to apply to bi-sexuals. Specifically, bi-sexual men. Bi-sexuality in women is almost universally fantasized over, if not accepted, while bi-sexuality in men is viewed as weak mindedness by the majority of the gay community, and as gay by the straight community. Switches in the lifestyle are generally viewed likewise as weak minded by Dominants, and submissive by submissives. Are they in a transitional phase, or are they true Switches, able to Dominate or submit, depending on the partner, or the situation? Or simply their mood?

I welcome any feedback, regardless of your level of experience, or your role.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 25

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:44:35 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: perverseangelic

,...it does -not- make you look good to go through and delete your posts.

Why not leave 'em up, and admit either a) you were wrong or b) you don't like the responses and choose no longer to participate in dialog. Either way, give the people coming after a chance to read and agree or disagree.

Though, many kudos to the boards for civil and interesting disagreement.

It's too bad. This was shaping up to be an interesting discussion from which many could learn much. I think one of the prime beneficiaries would have been the OP

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 26

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:46:34 AM

Faramir

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

Faramir can correct me if I'm wrong, but military basic training isn't about developing skills -- it's a socialization process designed to build teamwork, eliminate the unproductive element of individuality and instill a sense of single minded purpose toward the deadly job they have to do. Sure they learn skills along the way, but deer hunters can learn to shoot a gun or folks can take martial arts classes to learn other combat skills. And now we're back to individuals learning the skills they want without basic training.

Not that I'm the arbiter of all things military, but yes, I agree that basic training is about socializing, inculcating values, and not really about skills training. From the Marine Corps Recuit Depot (MSCRD) FAQ:

quote:

It is here where America's young men are transformed into Marines. We believe that Marines are forged in a furnace of shared hardship and tough training. This shared, intense experience creates bonds of comradeship and standards of conduct so strong that Marines will let nothing stand in their way. This belief will continue to be the basis upon which we make Marines.

Holding on to the high character of the Marines of the past, we look for ways to inculcate the strong values that have become synonymous with the Marine Corps. Through MCRD’s challenging recruit training the Marine Corps is preparing its Marines for the 21st century.

Marine Corps recruits are trained not only physically and mentally, but morally as well. Forming the bedrock of any Marine's character are the Core Values -- Honor, Courage and Commitment. By incorporating these values into recruit training, the Marine created is not just a basically trained, morally conscious Marine, but also a better American citizen who will return to society following his or her service to this country. (emphasis added)

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 27

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 11:49:22 AM

JustaTop

Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

The problem with standardization is it only works with things-not people. They have been trying to drive square pegs into round holes for centuries-it only results in one or the other winding up damaged.

Wouldn't just finding the right fit be more practical?

(in reply to Faramir)

Post #: 28

RE: x - 10/5/2005 1:43:38 PM

lonewolf05

Posts: 830
Joined: 6/21/2005
Status: offline

ES2

i agree with that.

especially since there ARE those that are new...and still defining THEMSELVES yet...
like MY Mistress/Domme..."I" have more lifestyle experience than SHE does but it IS...HER way isn't it?

woofie

_____________________________

"there is no gravity, life sucks!"

(in reply to MasterDirkNC)

Post #: 29

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 4:30:14 PM

Soulhuntre

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver
And what becomes of those who cant get thru basic? Those that have the desire yet something keeps them from being a perfect fit? It seems your wish is for the Elite, not the average human.

I don't think there is anything wrong if a owner or a house decide they only wish to dea with what they consider "the elite". Those who don't measure up will simply not find a place there... this is not a bad or evil thing. Everyone is entitled to standards of their own choosing.

< Message edited by Soulhuntre -- 10/5/2005 5:01:53 PM >

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 30

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 4:35:09 PM

Soulhuntre

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDirkNC
One overall set of definitions, one generally accepted discipline, and one basic set of guidelines for the training of submissives, as well as Dominants, would help to define the lifestyle, and return control to the Dominants.

This is never going to happen... nor should it ever happen. It simply will never occur that some central authority will gain the ability to define or enforce any such strictures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDirkNC
Common sense indicates that those expected to rule, to train, and to identify the submissives, should control the lifestyle and the relationships that develop as a result of it.

No one controls BDSM as a whole. People control their own houses and relationships only.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDirkNC
If a Dominant can indicate that they have been trained in the basics, then the submissive can be assured that they won’t have to provide the training, and they can focus on their submission. If Dominants can be assured that a submissive has been trained in the basics, they can focus on learning the specific needs, strengths, weaknesses, and limits of their submissive, and training the submissive to serve their individual requirements.

As a founder of a combined training house among my peers I am sympathetic to much of this paragraph - and we have done so. Those who seek submissives we have worked with knwo what they are getting and those who enter houses that are loosely based un our protocols know what they are getting.

But thats it. The boundaries of this influence are those who CHOOSE to consider such influence important. There is no way, no how and no desire to even attempt to make this "the" way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDirkNC
I welcome any feedback, regardless of your level of experience, or your role.

This idea is not only impractical and impossible to implement on a wide scale, it would be bad to do so.

< Message edited by Soulhuntre -- 10/5/2005 5:03:01 PM >

(in reply to MasterDirkNC)

Post #: 31

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 5:07:26 PM

Quivver

Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soulhuntre

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver
And what becomes of those who cant get thru basic? Those that have the desire yet something keeps them from being a perfect fit? It seems your wish is for the Elite, not the average human.

I don't think there is anything wrong if a owner or a house decide they only wish to dea with what they consider "the elite". Those who don't measure up will simply not find a place there... this is not a bad or evil thing. Everyone is entitled to standards of their own choosing.

You've misunderstood my point SoulHunter, I was speaking of the OP's thoughts that we all should have some credited training as a whole. I totally agree that each to their own, again "you may be a ____ but your not my ____" we each get to be human thank God.

Q

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to Soulhuntre)

Post #: 32

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 6:10:28 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soulhuntre

quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver
And what becomes of those who cant get thru basic? Those that have the desire yet something keeps them from being a perfect fit? It seems your wish is for the Elite, not the average human.

I don't think there is anything wrong if a owner or a house decide they only wish to dea with what they consider "the elite". Those who don't measure up will simply not find a place there... this is not a bad or evil thing. Everyone is entitled to standards of their own choosing.

You've misunderstood my point SoulHunter, I was speaking of the OP's thoughts that we all should have some credited training as a whole. I totally agree that each to their own, again "you may be a ____ but your not my ____" we each get to be human thank God.

Q

I'd like for a second to reflect back to a comment you voices in an earlter post "My money's on the Bear" and thank you for your vote. ~ Huge bearish grin ~

quote:

I don't think there is anything wrong if a owner or a house decide they only wish to dea with what they consider "the elite". Those who don't measure up will simply not find a place there... this is not a bad or evil thing. Everyone is entitled to standards of their own choosing.

Ok I'll admit, I seek the best of the best, an elite slave.. HOWEVER, I have never and will never say that she has to be elite when she comes to me. She can be the rawest rooky immaginable or she can be an experienced slave with a M/s background. neither of them are Gorean.. By the time they have spent the time in training, then in a House Collar and lets say a year in my Personal Collar, she will be elite. She will have all I ask of her. I dont give a flying copulating Tarn, if other slaves or kajirae can do some things better or what even she will be part of House Iron Bear and that makes her a loved and owned mamber of my family as well as my personal property.. In our eyes, that makes her elite. In the long run it is what each of the Free requires in a slave is what matters for them and none can gain say them.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Quivver)

Post #: 33

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 7:28:20 PM

Soulhuntre

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
In the long run it is what each of the Free requires in a slave is what matters for them and none can gain say them.

Of course :)

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 34

RE: x - 10/5/2005 7:48:48 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Dangit! I have been asked by more than one person to open a BDSM Charm School.........do you think THAT credential would be valuable? :)

(in reply to MasterDirkNC)

Post #: 35

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/5/2005 10:28:52 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soulhuntre

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
In the long run it is what each of the Free requires in a slave is what matters for them and none can gain say them.

Of course :)

Soulhuntre, G'day mate... I had intended to have added that if a girl come to me from another collar, ideally, I'd want to check her out with her previous owner, and yet still make my own evaluations according to my requirements. I'll still have to train her, but perhaps less that may have been first apparent. Your thoughts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Dangit! I have been asked by more than one person to open a BDSM Charm School.........do you think THAT credential would be valuable? :)

Would this be along the lines of a European Finishing School for young ladies???????? Actually, if it were feasable to open some form of school where triks could, for example learn dance and other relivant subjects especially in their Master's Homes. This would be interesting.... Perhaps even pre collar primer for those seeking a Gorean Collar where the basic can be taught .... Like reading the Gor series etc etc etc...... It would be both interesting and challanging and probably not practical......

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Soulhuntre)

Post #: 36

RE: Basic Training and Guidelines - 10/6/2005 9:25:30 AM

FLButtSlut

Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline

It seems apparent that the OP thinks that while in chat rooms sub/slaves should not have any opinions at all and spend all their time doing the "yes master" thing ad nauseum. I'm willing to bet that somewhere he spouted out this nonsense and someone like Emerald called him out for being the idiot he has shown himself to be on this post.

I wonder what he would think of his idea of a "overall set of definitions" when it showed that he didn't qualify under those terms to BE a dominant or a master?

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 37

RE: x - 10/6/2005 9:33:40 AM

ownedjulia

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

Seems a shame that the orignal posting has been deleted.

I always think it's bad form to delete ones original posting.

_____________________________

~julia
owned slave and proud of it!

(in reply to MasterDirkNC)

Post #: 38

RE: x - 10/6/2005 11:49:28 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

What's a trik?

Actually, I was thinking about doing seminars on a more national level (Midori Envy!) and was riffing on different ideas that hadn't been done already. My Informal Survey results: Teach Manners!

Well, I like to think that folks have manners already, taught to them by their families, but we all know that isn't terribly accurate. How often do we femdoms get emails from alarmingly rude men with no social skills to speak of? When did spelling stop mattering? When did "Kneel, bitch", replace an introduction? I suspect that there are women out there who are just as egregious in their ability to offend.

So, the idea for a BDSM Charm School, which would cover the basics of social intercourse that we can all agree on. But who would attend? :)

Ms Francine, Old Bat

(in reply to ownedjulia)

Post #: 39

RE: x - 10/6/2005 11:54:08 AM

ownedjulia

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

So, the idea for a BDSM Charm School, which would cover the basics of social intercourse that we can all agree on. But who would attend? :)

Exactly, You'd get plenty of responses in 'txt' speak about how they don't need to attend because they have manners - now kneel bitch.... or someover equally stupid remark!

_____________________________

~julia
owned slave and proud of it!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 40

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