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Making Changes - 4/3/2008 11:38:56 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		Many, many D/s relationships require a degree of change in the people involved in order to work in the first place This is normal compromise, and part of every human relationship that is going to work. I want to discuss the idea of change on the part of a submissive, to become more pleasing to their Dominant. This isn't about training; like learning how to give a good blow job or communicating within a strict protocol. I want to discuss the fundemental changes in person and being that can be asked of a submissive by their Dominant.

In the past, and often still now , I think that the some changes required of submissives are unhealthy,unreasonable and ill thought through. Largely that is due to the health and balance of the dynamic (as I see it from the outside) and the motivation for the required changes (again .. as I see them).Now usually the depth and intensity of the changes are directly proportional to the depth and intensity of the relationship; and it will be interesting to see if the replies on these boards reflect that. I also see that some changes are exceptionally healthy and create an outcome so positive, it can outlast the relationship.

I am now in a situation where I am required to make some pretty profound changes to my life, attitude and well being in order to get where I want to be. It is not a point of compromise, these changes will be made, or it is not going to work. I accept that. Some of the changes I have been actively hostile to with other partners (my weight for instance, control of my health problems) and because of where I am headed .. and the person I am hopefully headed there with I now see the good sense and usefulness of such changes for both our future happiness. There are others that I am still having trouble coming to terms with and committing to both the word and the spirit of those changes will be possibly the hardest part of my submission in the future. I dont see them as necessary in themselves, other than that they will please Him, but that I now believe is the only reason there needs to be.

So let's open up a discussion on making changes .

What changes have you willingly/unwilling gone through for your Dominant?
How was it put to you? How did you adjust yourself to the word/spirit of the request?
Do you now looking back, think they had a positive or negative impact?
Are there lines that you would draw in the sand .. this far but no further?
Have you any advice for others going through the same or similar changes?

I will answer all those questions myself later ... but thought I would try to keep the OP to at least a moderately reasonable length!

< Message edited by softness -- 4/3/2008 11:49:19 AM >

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio




Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Making Changes - 4/3/2008 12:25:00 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		There have been fundamental changes to my life and to our relationship based on decisions he has made.  There has been a job change, a name change, a pending residence change, an acceptance of another slave, learning to create and develop personality traits that had previously been stifled, and most recently a major temporary change to the way we relate to each other, due to some personal circumstances.

He directs and I follow, while always communicating what I think and feel.  Such changes are usually put to me as an instruction, and I am to obey it.  Some are more difficult than others, and I have a great support system with a few very close friends that I seek advice from when I'm struggling.

I'd say the impact has always been positive because we make it so.  No matter what's going on, we figure out how to grow from it and come out better for it.

I have not drawn any lines in the sand, and I don't foresee doing that.  What could possibly happen is I might some day be incapable of making a certain change, but then it's all about capability rather than my will or desire.

Some key advice that was given to me, which I also give to others, is to ask how I define a slave to be, and am I living according to what that is, and do I consider myself a slave?  Am I being true to myself?  What is my overall goal - his will or mine?  And am I capable of doing his will?  Do I want to be capable of doing his will?  Do I want to put his will before mine?  Do I trust him?   Am I willing to live with any errors he might make, without throwing them back at him?

Knowing my answers to those questions, I can center myself and go with it.  He hasn't steered me wrong yet, after all, and I see no reason why he would intentionally do so now.  He always wants my thoughts about what is happening.  This doesn't necessarily mean he will change the plan, but knowing where my head is will help him know if and when to step in and help me along, if he feels I need it.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Making Changes - 4/3/2008 12:32:54 PM   
TwistedLeather


Posts: 189
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline 		my changes are based on life experiences. W/we all change, as people and within our roles. Sometimes going deeper, sometimes shallowing out. i am not the same girl i was five years ago, and five years from now i will be different too.

Due to this, the lines i had once drawn (like being used by another at my Master's command) faded on their own. my willingness to do things i was once too afraid to do are no longer an issue (such as being naked around others. i was once INCREDIBLY shy). i have gone from being a surrendered slave with only the limits required to be the mother i still am, to the lap pet i am today with most of my liberties in tact.

If the changes that are occuring are opening you up and allowing yourself to give more to whomever you belong to, my advice is to openly communicate what you're feeling, and what you think about it. Even if it makes you feel shy. Even if you're afraid to say it. Allow Him/Her to help you grow. If they are taking you in a backwards step as my grief did, i hope you find someone with the willingness to help you find yourself again, accept you for who you are becoming instead of who you once were. If you're stepping backwards with the same person you started off with... i'm sorry, i don't really have advice for that, but hope you have an understanding Dom/me willing to help you through it.

Change is inevitable. Change is natural.

_____________________________

Wishing you lots of whacks and giggles!

www.americantwistedleather.com

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Making Changes - 4/3/2008 12:39:31 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

What changes have you willingly/unwilling gone through for your Dominant?


here's a few:
no cursing at the dinner table.
 
the elimination of my, me, mine and I from the vocabulary.
 
physical appearance is now dictated by Him.  that goes for what she will wear, which hairs will be kept at which length, how much she will weigh, etc..
 
this slave's activities are now dictated by Him and what He desires on any given day, or as a regular regimen that He sees fit to mandate.
 
this slave no longer serves everyone that crosses her path, her community, friends, and/or relatives.  she serves only those who Master desires her to.
 
quote:

How was it put to you?


Q:  "are you submissive, or do you get off fantasizing about it?"
A:  "both"
 
this slave had been doing both all of her life, just never entered into an M/s relationship before.  He is a confident Dom who knew what He wanted, and it is a pleasure to bring Him pleasure through obeying His desires.   pleasing Him IS job 1.  actually getting to participate in the sexual side of submission as a masochist to a Dominant sadist is pure gravy.

quote:

How did you adjust yourself to the word/spirit of the request?


by striving to lose any former sense of "self" and replace any remnant of it with "Master's obedient slave".

quote:

Do you now looking back, think they had a positive or negative impact?

 
all positive.
 
quote:

Are there lines that you would draw in the sand .. this far but no further?

in the beginning this slave had no interest in dying or going to jail, but since neither is Master, she didn't and doesn't have to draw those lines.

quote:

Have you any advice for others going through the same or similar changes?


the only one-true-way that matters is the path you choose.
each individual's path is unique to them.
being a little trustworthy with regard to another's life is like being a little bit pregnant...both are "all or nothing" things to this slave.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Making Changes - 4/3/2008 5:00:54 PM   
mzbehavin


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		What changes have you willingly/unwilling gone through for your Dominant?
** Completely re-arranged my life... Location, everything.

How was it put to you? How did you adjust yourself to the word/spirit of the request?
**It wasnt requested, i did everything willingly, on my own accord.


Do you now looking back, think they had a positive or negative impact?
** Both positive and negative. Positive in that really, it made me a better submissive. Negative in that it pretty much demolished my life as i had known it.

Are there lines that you would draw in the sand .. this far but no further?
** Yes, in relation to my um's, co-habitation right off the bat wasnt optional. I was willing to work into that but in the end it wasnt an issue as it didnt work out.


Have you any advice for others going through the same or similar changes
**Good luck... I wish you all the best. Its too subjective and as i dont know what "changes" specifically, relocation, body modification, etc you're looking at, all i can say is what the others said. Everyones path is different. xox

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Making Changes - 4/3/2008 7:33:08 PM   
LaMspeach


Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline 		What changes have you willingly/unwilling gone through for your Dominant?
I learned to drive over bridges; Moved to another state to be closer to him, Master has helped me make choices to better myself in many areas. He has helped me with medical decisions. One of the hardest and get most fulfilling changes has been to put his will over my own.


How was it put to you? How did you adjust yourself to the word/spirit of the request?  Master and I set goals and made plans to reach those goals. He encouraged me along the road and pushed me at times to reach those goals but he made me do it alone so that I could feel pride in what I accomplished.

Do you now looking back, think they had a positive or negative impact?
Everything has had a very positive impact even the things I struggled with.

Are there lines that you would draw in the sand .. this far but no further?
In my mind drawing lines would be taking control and I don’t want that kind of control.

Have you any advice for others going through the same or similar changes?
Understand what his goals for you are and what he wants the end results to be. Communicate openly and honestly… even your fears. Go into the changes with open eyes and an open mind.

_____________________________

peach ~ LordandMasters devoted alpha slave
"Only when the year has grown cold does one know that the pine and cypress are the last to wither"



(in reply to mzbehavin)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Making Changes - 4/3/2008 8:35:08 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

What changes have you willingly (/unwilling - not revelent) gone through for your Dominant?

 1. Changed name to joy, which is actually my middle name, but never had used it before.
 2. Began addressing someone as "Master" for the first time in my life.
 3. Moved to NC from GA.
 4. Wearing a collar and chain in the house.
 5. Began sleeping on the floor.
 6. Got a life insurance policy to benefit my offspring.
 7. Got my driver's license and started driving.
 8. Learned to make coffee.
 9. Watching horror movies.
10. Telling Him what i need.
and many more.

quote:

How was it put to you? How did you adjust yourself to the word/spirit of the request?

He told me and i did it.  i just do what He tells me to do.  Getting used to using "joy" as my first name has been a little challenging for me, but that is because my legal name hasn't been changed.  So, i have to go back and forth with the two of them. 

quote:

Do you now looking back, think they had a positive or negative impact?

All positive changes.  Everything He has me do is for a good reason.

quote:

Are there lines that you would draw in the sand .. this far but no further?

No.  Not with this Man.  If there had been, i never would have wanted to be with Him. 

quote:

Have you any advice for others going through the same or similar changes?

Just do what you feel is right for you. 
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 4/3/2008 8:37:41 PM >

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Making Changes - 4/3/2008 10:29:28 PM   
tahlly


Posts: 57
Status: offline
I gave up my career and gained a very lucrative hobby in return.
I gave up my freedom of choice in the relationship and gained enormous knowledge about myself in return.
I gave up my house and gained a home in return.
I gave up my body, mind, and soul and gained peace of mind and spirit in return.

For every ‘compromise’ that I have made; I have gained twice that in return. I would do it all again, for a lot less than what I gained.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Making Changes - 4/4/2008 4:40:00 AM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		What changes have you willingly/unwilling gone through for your Dominant?
The only changes My Lord has asked me to make are the same kinds of changes one would make in any relationship...behavioral issues that are creating friction, mostly.  He loves me for who I am, and frankly, it's just not our kink.
How was it put to you?
lol...usually at the top of his lungs at the start, more calm and collected once we talk, but definitely with the attitude that it needs to change and that we will help each other.
How did you adjust yourself to the word/spirit of the request?
It depends on the request.  So far, nothing he asked of me has been of such importance that it outweighs the importance of the relationship in my heart.  I'm not sure how I would react if it was something I was opposed to since we are usually simbiotic in our needs.
Do you now looking back, think they had a positive or negative impact?
Well, since he's still here, I'm thinking positive, but I suppose that remains to be seen.
Are there lines that you would draw in the sand .. this far but no further?
Absolutely.  We haven't hit any of those lines yet, so we don't know what they are, but if we stumble across one, I owe him the commitment of keeping an open mind and at least hearing him out.  Other than that, I am not required to blindly obey, nor do I think I could.
Have you any advice for others going through the same or similar changes?
Be true to yourself.  Doing otherwise is a breeding ground for resentment, anger, and bitterness; all of which will lead to the failure of the relationship, in our opinion.
edited: typo

< Message edited by StormsSlave -- 4/4/2008 4:41:16 AM >

_____________________________

Congratulate me...I'm a missus!!

--nobody's resident anything.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Making Changes - 4/6/2008 6:16:47 PM   
trueshadow


Posts: 388
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline 		As a male slave, I can't really remember any big changes I've made with my Owners.  They have been local and more part-time than 24/7.  I am very obedient and love to follow orders.  My Superiors have not made more than a couple of unreasonable requests (that I could comply with, mainly due to health reasons, some due to being impractical). 

I think male slaves are less involved in long, drawn out discussion and negotiations.  Perhaps Dommes are less inclined to make difficult requests as well.

(in reply to StormsSlave)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Making Changes - 4/6/2008 7:23:01 PM   
aphrodite5


Posts: 71
Joined: 8/5/2007
Status: offline 		Ch-ch-ch-changes!

Ahem. Sorry. What was the question?

What changes have I gone through for "my" Dominant(s)... Well, for some reason, I seem to attract the one-and-only types. Being of the many-loves sort myself, it was definitely a big change to be limited to a single partner. (I know for many this is just fine, and kudos to you, it just doesn't work for me.) It wasn't really put to me as a request. It was always an expectation. "If you want to be with me, you won't be with anyone else." Phrased various ways, and sometimes more implied than stated, but always the same intent. It was definitely a negative thing in my life. I become slightly unstable when someone tells me that I shouldn't love the people I love, and can't have the relationships I want to build. No one who has asked for this change has lasted in the long run. As a result, yes, there are lines that I have drawn. I will not be with anyone who expects me to be monogomous.

On the other hand, I've gone through changes with Daddy that have been very beneficial. I'm learning to be more emotionally transparent. I cry when I need to cry, even if I think it's silly. I tell him how much I love him, even when I worry that it's too much. And one of the first things he required me to change was to be more aware and responsible for my safety with new people. That included himself. I'm also learning to ask for help when I need it. I have a stubborn tendancy to fight it out on my own until I can't hide it any more. The only line I have with him is that I'm not looking to get married again. And I think that's a pretty easy line to work around!

The only advice I could give to anyone else is to be self-aware. Know what is good for you, and what is not. Know how much of yourself you can give without breaking.

(in reply to trueshadow)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Making Changes - 4/6/2008 8:05:23 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I started to respond to this thread last night, but my answer seemed a little too complicated to go into so late at night.  Tonight when the topic resurfaced, I figured I'd just put it out there to be what it is. 

Unlike many others here, I've not made any changes nor has Firm asked or required me to change.  I'm guessing he likes me just fine the way I am.  

That's not to say I've not been influenced by him.  I did move over 800 miles because I wanted to be near him, and his guidance shapes my opinions and decisions every day.  If I didn't feel his presence in my life was positive, I would not belong to him.  

I don't suppose I really have any lines in the sand, but I would need to understand the reasoning behind any change he would ask of me.  If it were a significant change to who I am, I would wonder why he didn't just choose someone who possessed that trait to begin with.  If it's simply adding a ritual or protocol... something to bring him pleasure, that is certainly easy enough to accept.

I'm not sure if I can give advice regarding the kind of changes you refer to other than to say you need to be happy with yourself in the end.  If it feels wrong to you, then you need to ask yourself why.  You could have a very good reason to oppose the change... and dominants aren't infallible.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Making Changes - 4/6/2008 8:30:46 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Unlike many others here, I've not made any changes nor has Firm asked or required me to change.  I'm guessing he likes me just fine the way I am.  


Not to point you out specifically, Treasure, but every time I see someone say what I bolded above, I wonder that that intends to imply to others who did go through changes for their dominants. 

There are a lot of folks here who moved for their dominants.  That has nothing to do with whether or not he/she likes the submissive.  There are a lot of folks here who did not see areas within themselves that had the potential of truly shining until someone else in their world helped them see it.  To those I say thank goodness their dominants did not choose to let them settle for being "just the way they were."

I guess it's a pet peeve of mine which bugs me whenever I see it. 

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 4/6/2008 8:31:14 PM >

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Making Changes - 4/6/2008 8:37:53 PM   
LPslittleclip


Posts: 1163
Joined: 9/29/2007
Status: offline 		all relationships require changes whether we know or just don't think about them. you go from living alone to living with some one. from shopping just for yourself to shopping together. i don't see much difference just the type of relationship. I'm a submissive and married to a very understanding wife who has allowed me to have/belong to a dominate. with my M'Lady she has done great things to further my submissive journey. O/our schedules are differing so its hard to get together but i try to always try to please my M'Lady. i don't have many hard limits just 3  one is due to sanitary reasons(scat play), one is due to being in combat several times(whips) and the last is from my working in the medical Field(needle play). i trust my M'Lady to protect me and i do what  ever she asks of me. i feel that all the changes that have occurred are for the positive. as far as a list many i just do them. for the new person going through this if you cant trust your Dominant/Master then you cant have a positive relationship.

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Making Changes - 4/7/2008 12:31:19 AM   
littlebitxxx


Posts: 732
Status: offline 		Now I have a question.  Why would someone want to change the person they fell in love/like with?  You were attracted for a reason, why would you want to change that?  And why would you fall for someone who wanted to change who you are?  Of course, compromise and adjustments are required for any healthy relationship but outright changes?  And I don't agree with ownedgirlie that someone would "just settle" for someone else and like them "just the way they are".  I don't call it settling for anything.  I wanted it all, I wouldn't "just settle".  I waited and he found me.  I love him just the way he is because "the way he is" is what I wanted.  No changes necessary.

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to LPslittleclip)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Making Changes - 4/7/2008 12:53:44 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline 		what littlebit said.  because we're talking eventual marriage, TheEngineer asked me what i thought he should change about himself.  why?  because well, that's what women do, they demand change.

me, i started laughing.  i told him "i love you as you are.  the only thing i would change is your weight because YOU are concerned about it."  and that's true.  he's already a great man.

i tell Daddy the same sort of thing.  he's a great man too.

they both would change the same thing about me...give me more self-esteem.  we're working on that, the three of us. 

kitten

(in reply to littlebitxxx)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Making Changes - 4/7/2008 1:49:39 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlebitxxx

And I don't agree with ownedgirlie that someone would "just settle" for someone else and like them "just the way they are".  I don't call it settling for anything.  I wanted it all, I wouldn't "just settle".  I waited and he found me.  I love him just the way he is because "the way he is" is what I wanted.  No changes necessary.


You misunderstood.  I said thank goodness, in some cases, the dominant did not let the submissive settle for being less than what she (or he) is capable of.  What if I am  convinced I was only capable of achieving "B" but he sees a much bigger picture and knows I can achieve "A?"  Should he let me achieve less than my fullest potential?  Shouldn't we want to bring out the best in each other?

Change isn't always a bad thing.  Change can mean growing and evolving and becoming our best. For example, I adore my Master, but what if he is unknowingly doing something that isn't healthy for himself?  Do I share my knowledge and educate him, or do I say I love him for who he is, even those unhealthy habits, and leave it alone?  Wouldn't educating him and asking him to be healthier be changing him?  And would that be wrong?  Should I let him settle for being less than his potential instead?

Your signature line says it all - There is no "can't" unless it is followed by "yet."  What if I don't see the potential for "yet" and he does? 



_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to littlebitxxx)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Making Changes - 4/7/2008 1:52:38 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

they both would change the same thing about me...give me more self-esteem.  we're working on that, the three of us. 


That is awesome that you're working on that, and I hope you come to think wonderfully about yourself!  You basically said what I was trying to say.  Why should they let you "settle" for thinking less about yourself than you should?  They see a potential in you and they're influencing you to develope it.  They are changing a trait in you, and that's not a bad thing at all.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to adoracat)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Making Changes - 4/7/2008 1:55:16 AM   
adoracat


Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: adoracat

they both would change the same thing about me...give me more self-esteem.  we're working on that, the three of us. 


That is awesome that you're working on that, and I hope you come to think wonderfully about yourself!  You basically said what I was trying to say.  Why should they let you "settle" for thinking less about yourself than you should?  They see a potential in you and they're influencing you to develope it.  They are changing a trait in you, and that's not a bad thing at all.


*nods*  what i see is that they arent changing the core of me, just a few things that detract from the "me" that i should be.

they both understand the why of me, and how i got this way, but lets shift the way i look at myself, and i think that might be a good thing in the long run.

kitten

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Making Changes - 4/7/2008 2:13:57 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I agree - changing a person's core is different than changing traits.  But I often see "he likes me just the way I am" applied to any kind of changes - not solely those relating to a person's core.  It was just an observation I had that influencing someone to change certain traits can actually be a good thing, and thankfully we are with people who want to bring out our best.

I can understand not wanting one's core to be changed.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to adoracat)
Profile   Post #: 20
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