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The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 3:36:08 AM   
p0rnioke


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline 		Dear community of bent people,

I present a question:

Is it contrary to being a sub/slave, if she is assertive about what she wants from a relationship?  Is being passive a part of the definition of sub/slave?  I ask because although a dom, honest communication about desires of my partner is very important - and yet in some conversations that I've had, i've gotten the impression that my 'ideal' of my sub/little girl, is scary to some- in that I will not allow my partner to abandon all self determination.  Indeed I wish to mentor my partners success in all aspect of her life, such as I can.

Your considered input is most appreciated.

p0rnioke
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 4:03:43 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		You will be introduced to a number of bad ass assertive sub/slaves through this thread. Nice to make your aqaintence. Open communication is vital to a good D's relationship. Your fantasy sub fits the descrition of Most here. You sound like a Dom with integrity. The kind that is really abusive but using BDSM to be abusive is not who we choose for this community.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to p0rnioke)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 4:20:41 AM   
MRandme


Posts: 661
Joined: 9/24/2007
Status: offline 		Hello  p0rnioke,

It is not contrary to the nature of a slave or sub to be expect their needs to be met, in general. There may be some who feel that as long as their D-type gets His/Her needs met, they will be happy.  Most of us, though, do this because it does fulfill our needs in some way and a relationship that doesn't fulfill it probably won't last that long.

Specifically, even as a slave, i have ways to assure my needs in the relationship are being met.  i have a journal that i may use to write down any thoughts or issues. i have used it to talk about my feelings and have also approached my Master directly. Open communication with no fear of reprisal means that my needs can be met while i meet His. Easy. Basic.

To most of us, submissive/slave does not equal doormat.
g


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 4:27:09 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		my definition of submission is to yield to the power and authority of another.  Yield what exactly?  If a person does not perceieve that they have any personal power or personal authority what exactly are they yielding?  That's just my view.  YMMV

However, there are people who tend to blast the more timid souls and declare that submissives should be strong assertive people.  Not everyone is.  There is room for the "doormat" as well. 

i'm a combintation of both.  i absolutely hate being the center of attention or a focal point in public.  However, in my job i easily conduct presentations to large groups of people 50-100-200 or more.  i get over my shyness because i percieve the subject matter to be the focal point, not me personally.  In many aspects of my life and my relationship i am absolutely assertive, strong, capable.  i am a supervisor of department within a very large corporation.  i see no conflict between being submissive and being assertive but i see nothing at all wrong with being submissive and passive. 

_____________________________

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No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to p0rnioke)
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RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 4:32:19 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

my definition of submission is to yield to the power and authority of another.  Yield what exactly?  If a person does not perceieve that they have any personal power or personal authority what exactly are they yielding?  That's just my view.  YMMV

However, there are people who tend to blast the more timid souls and declare that submissives should be strong assertive people.  Not everyone is.  There is room for the "doormat" as well. 

i'm a combintation of both.  i absolutely hate being the center of attention or a focal point in public.  However, in my job i easily conduct presentations to large groups of people 50-100-200 or more.  i get over my shyness because i percieve the subject matter to be the focal point, not me personally.  In many aspects of my life and my relationship i am absolutely assertive, strong, capable.  i am a supervisor of department within a very large corporation.  i see no conflict between being submissive and being assertive but i see nothing at all wrong with being submissive and passive. 


agreed. and here you can be your authentic self. Although beware of the flames!

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 4:48:45 AM   
p0rnioke


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks foks - it's nice to find thoughtful, articulate kinky folk like me.  This is difficult to discuss within my own community for some reason, so an outside sounding board, I concluded, is a resource I should find and cultivate...

p0rnioke

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 5:00:36 AM   
jeffman1234


Posts: 61
Joined: 6/11/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe you want a sub and not a slave?

(in reply to p0rnioke)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 5:02:10 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffman1234

Maybe you want a sub and not a slave?
hmm...only took 7 posts for that to pop up

(in reply to jeffman1234)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 5:06:25 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Maybe you need a different local community?
Personally speaking, submission is best for me when it is with someone who understands and appreciates my personality.  I'm certainly not very passive, although in the right circumstances I can become passive.  I feel that the dominant has the job of providing an environment in which I want to submit and in which I wish to continue to submit.  I can be outspoken, and spikey.  If a dominant doesn't get that or can't handle it then it's obvious he's not the dominant for me.  I don't remain in a relationship where my needs are not met. 

I like this part of your post the best:
quote:

Indeed I wish to mentor my partners success in all aspect of her life, such as I can.

I certainly crave oversight that comes from a dominant.  But it has to "fit" with what I want and need in order to work.



< Message edited by KatyLied -- 4/5/2008 5:07:24 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to jeffman1234)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 5:20:59 AM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

my definition of submission is to yield to the power and authority of another.  Yield what exactly?  If a person does not perceieve that they have any personal power or personal authority what exactly are they yielding?  That's just my view.  YMMV

However, there are people who tend to blast the more timid souls and declare that submissives should be strong assertive people.  Not everyone is.  There is room for the "doormat" as well. 

i'm a combintation of both.  i absolutely hate being the center of attention or a focal point in public.  However, in my job i easily conduct presentations to large groups of people 50-100-200 or more.  i get over my shyness because i percieve the subject matter to be the focal point, not me personally.  In many aspects of my life and my relationship i am absolutely assertive, strong, capable.  i am a supervisor of department within a very large corporation.  i see no conflict between being submissive and being assertive but i see nothing at all wrong with being submissive and passive. 

Yep what she said...nicely put by the way!

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 6:11:48 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffman1234

Maybe you want a sub and not a slave?


pffftttt....



_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to jeffman1234)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 6:17:56 AM   
p0rnioke


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/23/2007
Status: offline 		 
Jeffman1234=:  please elaborate on this, and tell me: what do you percieve as the difference between the two?

xxblushesxx:  "pffftttt" ????


< Message edited by p0rnioke -- 4/5/2008 6:20:27 AM >

(in reply to jeffman1234)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 6:24:46 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

There is room for the "doormat" as well. 


Thank you. :)

I'm a bit of a doormat.  I can assert myself effectively if the situation requires, but its work for me and not my default mode. 

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 6:48:31 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I'm a little girl/slave/slut and I'm very assertive about what I want in my relationship. My Daddy is also adamant that I reach my full potential as his property and as a productive member of society. I read your profile and liked it very much. Good luck in your search.

_____________________________

“I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman.” – Anais Nin

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 7:15:58 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: p0rnioke

Dear community of bent people,

I present a question:

Is it contrary to being a sub/slave, if she is assertive about what she wants from a relationship?  Is being passive a part of the definition of sub/slave?  I ask because although a dom, honest communication about desires of my partner is very important - and yet in some conversations that I've had, i've gotten the impression that my 'ideal' of my sub/little girl, is scary to some- in that I will not allow my partner to abandon all self determination.  Indeed I wish to mentor my partners success in all aspect of her life, such as I can.

Your considered input is most appreciated.

p0rnioke


I can't see a sub/slave being assertive as being contradictory. To me, that measure of assertiveness is a good indication that the sub knows what they want and need in a relationship and has the determination to do so. I see this as an assest knowing that that person still has a mind of their own and will not allow themselves be treated in a negative manner.


_____________________________

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Promiscuous boy you already know
That I’m all yours what you waiting for?

Resident MANWHORE ~1000 Bear pts~

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(in reply to p0rnioke)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 7:22:36 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Is it contrary to being a sub/slave, if she is...


"a" submissive/slave mindset does not encompass all those who identify as submissive/slave.
 
if you want to delve into the nature and motivations of a particular submissive/slave's mindset, it will most likely be VERY different than the next particular submissive/slave's nature/motivations/mindset.
 
some folks submit in the bedroom/dungeon, only.
some folks submit only to their partner, in an established relationship.
some folks have a submissive personality, yet prefer to dominate in the context of an intimate relationship.
some folks have a dominant personality, yet prefer to submit to another in the context of an intimate relationship(s).
 
each one of those folks will have a different mindset about their submission and what it means in the context of their lives.  some are contrary to others.  some need their submission "inspired", some "feel" more or less submissive, depending on the physical acts they are performing, some just plain submit, period.
 
the only one-true-way that matters is the path you have chosen.

quote:

...in some conversations that I've had, i've gotten the impression that my 'ideal' of my sub/little girl, is scary to some...


get used to it and welcome to the club---everybody's ideal here is scary to someone...

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 4/5/2008 7:24:19 AM >

(in reply to p0rnioke)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 7:42:35 AM   
AMaster


Posts: 814
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Is it contrary to being a sub/slave, if she is...


"a" submissive/slave mindset does not encompass all those who identify as submissive/slave.
 
if you want to delve into the nature and motivations of a particular submissive/slave's mindset, it will most likely be VERY different than the next particular submissive/slave's nature/motivations/mindset.
 
some folks submit in the bedroom/dungeon, only.
some folks submit only to their partner, in an established relationship.
some folks have a submissive personality, yet prefer to dominate in the context of an intimate relationship.
some folks have a dominant personality, yet prefer to submit to another in the context of an intimate relationship(s).
 
each one of those folks will have a different mindset about their submission and what it means in the context of their lives.  some are contrary to others.  some need their submission "inspired", some "feel" more or less submissive, depending on the physical acts they are performing, some just plain submit, period.
 
the only one-true-way that matters is the path you have chosen.

quote:

...in some conversations that I've had, i've gotten the impression that my 'ideal' of my sub/little girl, is scary to some...


get used to it and welcome to the club---everybody's ideal here is scary to someone...



Well said.  I totally agree, but I never could have articulated the thoughts as well as you have.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 8:08:24 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: p0rnioke
Is being passive a part of the definition of sub/slave? 


I wanted to comment on this - passive may be part of the mix, but isn't necessarily all of it.  Sometimes I am required to be passive, sometimes I'm required to be assertive.  If I were always passive, I wouldn't be able to be proactive in my slavery and would merely wait for instructions at every turn. 

With submissives and slaves alike, there are many styles, many preferences, many personality traits, various strengths and weaknesses, to varying degrees.  And to answer your inquiry about what some feel is the difference between a submissive and slave, I would invite you to use the Search function (top right hand side of your page) and you can enjoy a lifetime's worth of reading of all  the different debates on the topic.  You'll see it's a much dreaded and debated topic on these boards.

And what beth said was perfect - everyone's ideal is scary to someone. 

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 8:51:26 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		I agree wholeheartly with what Beth said

I am very passionate about certain issues/things in life, one Dom made the mistake of ignoring after I stated very clearly in the beginning figuring as time went along  that in my growing submission to him that he could just order/force me to drop those views  ...big mistake ...because I will turn polecat when forced to go against things things I value or feel is important to me


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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The nature of the submissive/slave mindset - 4/5/2008 9:04:31 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Many subs/slaves when they first get into this tend to want to be totally passive- a spoiled pet type who doesn't have to think, doesn't have to worry, doesn't have to be RESPONSIBLE. 

And there are some relationships in which the dynamic is centered around that sort of interplay and personality types and that's fine.

But for the most part, people are just people.  What makes Ms or Ds different really just tends to be the authority dynamic.  The personality quirks, desires, pressures and such are all as varied as you'll find anywhere else.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 20
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