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RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/7/2008 5:44:19 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingKitten

And yes, I agree with the other comments - you're not supposed to enter an intersection for any reason, at any time, unless your exit is clear. In reality that might make getting through a busy intersection virtually impossible, and lead to huge amounts of road rage....... but it is the traffic code.

Well, somebody better tell that to the local police forces in the Phoenix valley. We always pull out into the intersection unless there is a sign stating "left turn on green arrow only". I pull out into the intersection as soon as the light is green and just sit waiting until the yellow, and often it does turn red before we can clear it. There is usually someone behind Me too, if I am the first car. That way at least two cars can clear a left at a busy intersection before the next wait. I have been behind cop cars that do it, and we both wait to make our turns. I have never been cited for it. I hate it when people sit there and don't move out...it really fouls things up. We always wait for the left turners to finish their turns and then start moving again. There will always be idiots who do not know how to drive in traffic, but I was not aware that there were traffic laws that state you may not move into the intersection to get a head start. Hells bells! None of us would ever get anywhere!
Good to see you, anthro! Sorry about the ticket. I would have fought it.

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They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
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Post #: 21

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/7/2008 6:08:51 PM

Real0ne

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yup I would have sent it and a recorded conversation with the cop to a local news station.

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Post #: 22

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/7/2008 6:51:59 PM

anthrosub

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Joined: 6/2/2004
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Hello Dusty, nice to hear from you. I will try to answer everyone's points here.

First, the issue of pulling into an intersection when you have a green light:

Some common sense. Saying it's dangerous because of oncoming traffic and not being able to judge if you can make the turn due to their speed is no different then saying you can't make a left hand turn off a two way road onto a side road because of the danger of oncoming traffic.

I don't count on the other cars slowing down because the light turned yellow for them. I wait until I know positively I can make the turn in plenty of time. If I'm in the intersection when the light turns red that's no different than driving through the intersection and having the light turn red while I'm still in it. It's only running a red light if it turns red before you enter the intersection. Maybe some areas have different laws but that's always how it's been where I've lived.

Besides, while I'm sitting there, so are the cars on the other road waiting for their green light. Do you think they will just pull forward when it does and run into me?

What happened was as follows...

I approached the intersection while the light was yellow. It has six lanes...3 for each direction and I was in the far right lane. I had rounded a corner in the road maybe 150 feet back, so I didn't see when the light turned yellow. I intended to make a right hand turn and was already slowing down. Just as I got right at the corner, the light turned red. I was already slowed for the turn, checked traffic to the left (which was at a standstill) and pulled onto the road in front of them. I turned late so I could end up in the far left lane of the road I was turning onto (that road also has 6 lanes...3 for each direction). This is why in the photograph it doesn't look like I was turning. The photo was taken just before I started the turn. Each photo is one second apart. If they had taken one more, they would have seen me turning.

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Post #: 23

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/7/2008 7:46:34 PM

Termyn8or

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If you turn out of the right lane you are supposed to turn into the right lane.

T

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Post #: 24

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/7/2008 8:06:09 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
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From: Savannah, GA
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~FR~ Term... some states have license plates front and rear... Maryland is one of them, as is CA.

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Post #: 25

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/7/2008 8:10:40 PM

DesFIP

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Show up in court. If the officer brings the pictures, you can ask the judge to view them, and tell him where you were going which is why you needed to turn there. He'll probably dismiss it.

My oldest got a ticket for a burned out tail light Friday night at 10:00 PM. She was told it would be dismissed if she showed up with it fixed within 24 hours. No place to get it fixed on the weekend doesn't seem to have entered their minds. However I got lucky, when I called to complain, they said no problem, the ticketing officer works days as a correction officer and just moonlights weekend nights, so he won't show up in court, it'll be an automatic dismissal. Fine but she still has to show up and they still should have given her till Monday when garages are open.

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RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 12:34:19 PM

Lordandmaster

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It sounds as though you're forgetting that she was in fact guilty of a violation. It wasn't the officer's fault that your daughter had a broken tail light. I can get as irritated as anyone else by bullshit traffic tickets, but this one wasn't bullshit, was it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My oldest got a ticket for a burned out tail light Friday night at 10:00 PM. She was told it would be dismissed if she showed up with it fixed within 24 hours. No place to get it fixed on the weekend doesn't seem to have entered their minds. However I got lucky, when I called to complain, they said no problem, the ticketing officer works days as a correction officer and just moonlights weekend nights, so he won't show up in court, it'll be an automatic dismissal. Fine but she still has to show up and they still should have given her till Monday when garages are open.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 27

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 12:58:32 PM

xBullx

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Joined: 10/8/2005
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-fast reply-

I don't like all these damn cameras and crap. It's another civil liberty gone. The cameras are still only going to have an effect on the honest man. It's just another way that the big brother has to monitor you for other things.

I read that the average citizen in the UK is filmed over three hundred times in a single day. That's just fuckin' wrong and I'm damn sick of this type of world. No wonder people want to blow us and our technoligy up.

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Post #: 28

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 1:15:36 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It sounds as though you're forgetting that she was in fact guilty of a violation. It wasn't the officer's fault that your daughter had a broken tail light. I can get as irritated as anyone else by bullshit traffic tickets, but this one wasn't bullshit, was it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My oldest got a ticket for a burned out tail light Friday night at 10:00 PM. She was told it would be dismissed if she showed up with it fixed within 24 hours. No place to get it fixed on the weekend doesn't seem to have entered their minds. However I got lucky, when I called to complain, they said no problem, the ticketing officer works days as a correction officer and just moonlights weekend nights, so he won't show up in court, it'll be an automatic dismissal. Fine but she still has to show up and they still should have given her till Monday when garages are open.

Technically you are right, of course, LaM. I have never received more than a warning or "an advisory" if I had a burned out tail light. It happens, and most of us are not aware until someone is kind enough to tell us. Even if that someone is a police officer who has inconveniently pulled us over. I am sure they put somethng into the system, with the written warning, so that if it is not taken care of, and you are pulled over a week later for the same problem, you can then be ticketed.
To DesFIP: Tail lights usually do not require a garage for a fix. It is usually a matter of a burned out bulb, or, if one picks up a rock, it might have broken. Checker Auto or other similar stores are opened all weekend. I am not looking to see where you live, but I know garages, if one is required, are open in My area on Saturdays, at least for half a day. I'm not trying to be contrary here, but a burned out or broken tail light is an easy fix. Although I am surprised that she got a ticket as opposed to a friendly warning, she was, inadvertently, breaking the traffic laws. The error was in the officer stating she could prove it fixed within 24 hous, when I am sure the court would not be open to check it out on Saturday, anyway.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 29

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 1:52:32 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

traffic tickets and insurance costs are plain ole cost of doing business. in ones lifetime one will earn several traffic tickets. it is not the worst thing ever. the thing is- every so many miles someone is hurt beyond repair. There would be alot more commotion is one was hurt.

I am afraid the OP will have to take his lumps... just as anyone on the board has.

If you drive- you take risks. Everything is a calculated risk.

I would not bother with court on $75. the time in at work rather then court could earn the $75.

if the cam is wrong- then contact the entity in charge and get it fixed. start with your state DOT.

< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 4/8/2008 1:53:34 PM >

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 30

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 4:00:06 PM

QuietlySeeking

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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When I lived in TN, you had to enter the intersection to turn left on certain intersections or you never got the chance to turn.

When I lived in CO, it was points and a $250 fine for pulling into the intersection without being able to complete the turn. "Impeding traffic" I believe was the charge.

In Atlanta, GA, if you block the intersection, you are likely to get some very nasty comments directed your way, a few vulgar gestures, or in the case of my brother-in-law, someone who decided traffic wasn't flowing fast enough and intentionally hit his rear bumper to "get him to move faster".

Fortunately, a police officer witnessed the entire thing and the road-rager had his license revoked.

Edited to correct a mispelling...or is that a misspelling? ARRGGH.

< Message edited by QuietlySeeking -- 4/8/2008 4:32:21 PM >

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Post #: 31

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 4:11:50 PM

orfunboi

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Joined: 10/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Actually, that depends on the jurisdiction--which is FUCKING confusing. In New York City, you can't enter the intersection until you're sure you can make your turn, as you say. In Philadelphia, on the other hand, you're supposed to pull into the intersection and wait there until the oncoming traffic passes. (I doubt you'd get a ticket for doing otherwise, but you sure would get a long of angry honks from the cars behind you.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

As far as not making it thru a left turn before the light goes red, you actually are not supposed to enter the intersection until it is clear to make your turn, in case the light does turn red.

When I took drivers ed, they taught us to pull out into the intersection before a left turn. This is in Michigan and the laws may have changed, but if they did, no one told me about it. I have also seen the police do this numerous times, maybe the law is different here.

They did make a big deal out of telling everyone to move over a lane, if a cop has someone pulled over on the side. Now if they could just explain to people that they shouldn't move over until they have room and no, slamming on your brakes isn't real smart either.

edited to add: And if you are driving in Detroit, don't stop for a yellow unless you want to get rear ended, I think the general rule of thumb is to wait until a light has been red for at least 2 sec before stopping, but I could be wrong. Oh yea and if the light turns green while you are sitting there, don't move until the other lanes stop, the light may be red to them, but if their 2 secs are not up, you will get hit.

< Message edited by orfunboi -- 4/8/2008 4:18:31 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 32

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 4:16:28 PM

glanstat

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Joined: 3/22/2006
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I went to traffic school in AZ, it is legal and recommended to enter the intersection and wait for traffic to clear, even if the light turns red. Legal in AZ to be in the intersection as long as it was green or yellow when you got in it.

In Oregon you get a ticket if you are in the intersection and the light turns red.

(in reply to orfunboi)

Post #: 33

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 4:23:49 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking
In Atlanta, GA, if you block the intersection, you are likely to get some very nasty comments directed your way, a few vulgar gestures, or in the case of my brother-in-law, someone who decided traffic wasn't flowing fast enough and intentionally hit his rear bumper to "get him to move faster".

gawd, I had that happen to me in ATL, too... seems I didn't start moving soon enough when the light changed (I guess I was supposed to move BEFORE it actually went green....sheesh)

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Post #: 34

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/8/2008 5:40:39 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Lam,
Not objecting to the violation, just to the fact that if it's given on a Monday, when you can get to a garage and then swing by the police station to show it's fixed, they dismiss it. But this is a small town and they know there are no garages open on the weekend so when they tell you it will be dismissed if you can get if fixed, they already know you can't get it fixed. And if you get it on Saturday, then you have until Monday evening to get it fixed.

I'm objecting to not recognizing that ten at night is not a time you can get it repaired. Even the detective I spoke to acknowledged that their rulings make no sense and that he admitted the judges always dismiss this.

Volkswagons lights are designed to be damn near impossible to get into, they want you to go to the dealer.

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Post #: 35

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/9/2008 4:54:14 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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I too took drivers ed. The car was sure shaken up when I pressed the gas instead of the break at 111th and LaGrange RD. lmao.

Anyhow- the idea is to be correct. Not necessarily legal. correct. Not necessarily couteous. Drivers are not expecting one to be too nice. So that can cause confusion or an accident.

The roads are -some getting designed for the stupidest person in the town, others buildt where roads arent supposed to be.

The cam set up, consists of 3 pics. 1 of the license plate, one of the driver, one of the infraction. Usually the pic in included in the ticket.

We have some confusing left turn lights here.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 36

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/9/2008 4:59:31 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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Oh and about blocking the intersection? In NYC they have very strict gridlock rules, you block the box, you get ticketed and heavily. Enforcement of this seems to vary depending on whether or not it will cause major traffic foul ups.

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Post #: 37

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/9/2008 8:45:48 AM

thompsonx

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tFR:
If one gets a ticket and decides to fight it, it will take two days of your time. The first day will be when you go to court and plead not guilty. In some jurisdictions if you plead not guilty you will be required to post bail in the amount of the expected fine. This means that you are paying the fine in advance should you not show up for trial...which is another crime called failure to appear and a bench warrant will usually be issued for your arrest. In short you have been found guilty before the trial and if you go to the trial you may or may not be able to exonerate yourself. If you do then you will wait thirty to sixty days for your money to be refunded.
If you go to trial on the ticket you are not allowed a jury trial in many jurisdictions.
Bottom line is that you are out two days of your time. If you are found not guilty you are only out your two days....what is that???somewhere between a hundred and five hundred dollars? How much would the fine have been??? somewhere between a hundred and five hundred dollars?
Is it possible that the courts are aware that most of us can do arithmetic?
I think the name of traffic citations should be changed to "revenue enhancement citations" truth in labeling laws should be enforced.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/9/2008 8:50:48 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/9/2008 10:55:19 AM

MistyMenthal

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I'm a member of Pre`paid legal.

It has helped me immensely!

Let me know if you would like info?

As a Submissive always here to help.

Always, misty

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Post #: 39

RE: Got Red Light Citation for Legal Right Turn on Red - 4/14/2008 10:34:11 AM

SugarMyChurro

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This seems relevant:

-----

Red light camera monkey business may be a national trend
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080413-red-light-camera-monkey-business-may-be-a-national-trend.html

Red-light cameras are often billed as a great way to improve traffic safety and prevent speeding. A few cities across America, however, have been caught short-timing their own yellow lights below legal levels, in what may be an attempt to boost ticket revenues by giving drivers less time to come to a stop. So how many anecdotes do you need to pronounce something a trend? It's hard to say, especially when the anecdotes in question support the abolishment of something as universally hated as the red light camera.

(in reply to MistyMenthal)

Post #: 40

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