Newbies should/shouldn't...says who?

Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (Full Version)

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BoiJen -> Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 6:53:40 AM)
Recently there was a thread about what "every newbie should know..." Okay. I can totally agree with the primary basis of the post. Ad even the intent. What I can't agree with is a post on the thread stating that delving into certain play style isn't something a newbie "should" do. I mean who wrote the rules on what newbies should and shouldn't do or try or enjoy? If they want to jump in with both feet and go hog wild it's their choice and who's out there that is so worldly and "expereinced" to demand a standard of what new people to SM should and shouldn't try? Basically, it's not the first time I've seen anyone try to limit the expereinces of someone who wants to experiment. I think people make assumptions based on themselves about what others shoudl try and at what rate, rather than asking the other individuals involved "what do YOU want to do?"

DesFIP -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 6:59:22 AM)
Because it's not a way to reduce unwanted side effects, jumping in with both feet, with no idea of what you're getting into. There's a big skydiving ranch near here, you go out there, you don't just pay your money and go up in a plane, and get pushed out on your own. You have several on ground training classes, you learn how to check the parachute, put it on safely, and finally you jump with an instructor who will pull the cord if you freeze and can't. No guarantee that on future trips you won't freeze and not pull the cord but lessens the risk. Risk abatement makes sense.

OmegaG -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:05:21 AM)
I look at what people post as guidlines that are extended by people who have a genuine wish to protect others from harm as much as possible. I tend not to follow rules by rote, for me to follow a rule it's got to make sense to me and it's got to be something that I want to do. But especially when I was new I read the threads about the rules and the discussions that followed and I tailored my own personal rules for conduct based partially by the advise that I gleaned from various sources. So, sure there are going to be those that will take all the threads, compile a book and memorize it. But I think most will keep what resonates with them and toss out what doesn't.

JohnWarren -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:05:42 AM)
Having been in the scene long before many of the risks we know about were recognized, I celebrate the hard-won knowledge. My philosophy isn't to forbid or limit, but I do present the risks to people and then let them decide if the risks are worth the thrill. I also try to find less risky ways so that people can act out their scenes while maintaining the same level of energy. That said, there are some people I will not allow to play in my dungeon because I feel their play puts _me_ at unwarrented risk.

SNoB -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:06:07 AM)
When someone brand new to the scene wants to try cutting, blood play, breath play, mummification and single tailing with a 8' bull whip I will tell them you have signed up to be the stunt bottom! I think its obvious why people shouldnt jump in on all things with both feet, because its easy to hurt someone else, its not what will hurt them, but will hurt others. I'd rather advise someone not to try breath play right off the bat because I dont want to see a wrongful death suit slapped down on them by the other persons family. We "play" in this lifestyle, but this is serious stuff, people die and get permanently disfigured all the time.

metamorpha -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:06:07 AM)
I don't think that anyone was trying to limit anyone else's experiences - just to give some sound advice. Even when you have been with a partner for a while things can go wrong - consensual sex can turn ugly, or discipline can go too far. That's hard enough to deal with if you are experienced. If you are new to the lifestyle, or to play, it can be shattering.

thetammyjo -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:21:18 AM)
I can't speak for others but I know that when I advise people to take things slow that comes from two things inside of me. First, my own experience that building up is less risky than attempting to do it all immediately. Risky here both emotionally and physically. Second, for some reason I have a desire for others to find their happiness and become the best they can become. In both my experience and observations this is accomplished with the greatest chance of success when things build up over time.

toservez -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:25:22 AM)
People write most of the time from a personal standpoint. Sure, for some they will write as more of an ego stroke to themselves, to promote one true way or to try to make something intangible like compatibility into a tangible thing which they naturally have but that is life and can be seen in anything. The more information available the better it is no matter how it can be slanted. What I am the most disappointed in though is we often just love to believe all newbies are idiots and cannot possibly have common sense and are able to process multiple pieces of information for themselves. That they cannot figure out what works for them, what risks they are willing to take and how to go about minimalizing those risks. Too often we point to anecdotal examples of worse case scenarios. People new to this life are just a cross section of the rest of the population and probably with the same percentage of ones who are going to be responsible or irresponsible.

Justme696 -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:25:44 AM)
I never tell people not to do something, but I give an opinion/advise, that is all.

MissHarlet -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:31:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OmegaG I look at what people post as guidlines that are extended by people who have a genuine wish to protect others from harm as much as possible. . So, sure there are going to be those that will take all the threads, compile a book and memorize it. But I think most will keep what resonates with them and toss out what doesn't. I think this is the most important thing that anyone can do... newbie or not ......

BoiJen -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:37:05 AM)
Toservez that's what I mean! Why on earth is everything suddenly the worst case scenario rather than..."here's the risks...you decide." Are we trying to make them shit themselves in fear before they even start? If the idea is not to put them in over their heads then explain things to them...don't tell them this is too much for you. I know plenty of people who did blood play and cuttings and needles and breath play on their first scenes. I teach a singletail class called "5 minutes to singletails"...teach the top how to use their toys...not be afraid of them. Teach the bottom how to communicate during a scene rather than to be in utter fear because if they say something something else might go horribly wrong! Why is it about "warning" them with horror stories rather than informing them of the risks and options? My personal opinion as to why the more negative approach is the norm, is because to not do so would demistify WIITWD and suddenly the power of information and knowledge is no longer in "my hands." Just an opinion.

OmegaG -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:50:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen If the idea is not to put them in over their heads then explain things to them...don't tell them this is too much for you. I know plenty of people who did blood play and cuttings and needles and breath play on their first scenes. I teach a singletail class called "5 minutes to singletails"...teach the top how to use their toys...not be afraid of them. Teach the bottom how to communicate during a scene rather than to be in utter fear because if they say something something else might go horribly wrong! hijacking the thread. I met someone who said you demonstrated using 3 single tails at a time and she said it was beautiful. I hope I can have a chance to see one of your demonstrations some day. end of hijack.

BoiJen -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 7:58:04 AM)
If it is who I think it is she's awesome and thanks for the note. And seriously...I learned how to use a singletail in the span of about 5-10 minutes. MOST, not all, toys are that way. So as a top, it's important to me to empower people who are new. As a bottom it's important to me to help them feel comfortable and honest with their partner during scenes. What we do really isn't all that hard to figure out. That's not to say everything is for everybody. It's to say they're never going to know if we don't provide a comfortable safe atmosphere for them to learn.

Luciferica -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 8:03:57 AM)
To a degree I agree ..to everything there is a season, but I also think Newbies should be comfortable with the play before they get involved in it, otherwise someone could get hurt

HalloweenWhite -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 8:09:46 AM)
I agree with you upto a point, but I didn't see the post youre talking about, but, generally, there's an unwritten rule that people should be left alone to enjoy whatever kink they want, when safety is an issue though, some people are bound to have stronp oppinions for newbies.

Aileen1968 -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 8:10:02 AM)
I love the feelings that sub frenzy gives me. Every one of my senses and emotions become heightened. Jumping into things with both feet and going hogwild just makes all of those feelings even more intense. I get off on that. I see nothing wrong with experimenting and trying new things.

OmegaG -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 8:10:53 AM)
I'll admit that on my journey it was tougher to come to terms with what I desired then actually meeting people once I decided to put myself out there. Now, that isn't to say that a couple of people that I conversed with sent me clear signals that I probably shouldn't meet them, luckily I wasn't so frantic to get involved that I ignored the warning signs.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 8:17:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: toservez What I am the most disappointed in though is we often just love to believe all newbies are idiots and cannot possibly have common sense and are able to process multiple pieces of information for themselves. That they cannot figure out what works for them, what risks they are willing to take and how to go about minimalizing those risks. I have always taken the "what every newbie should know" posts as direct responses to the tons of newbie horror stories that we see posted. Not every newbie is an idiot, but the vast majority that find their way to the forums after their first disasterous attempt asking "why me?" are the ones we see. Thos are the ones who CANNOT figure out what works for them, obviously, and who CANNOT process the informaton and keep themselves safe. You dont hear nearly as many brag stories about first expereinces that went amazingly well. People love to lament the negative, and when we see so much negative and so little positive, people assume there really is more negative and write these little helpful hints to try and lessen them. Problem is, the vast majority of the newbies getting involved in those risky stupid things arent reading the boards anyway. If they were, there are a ton of places they can see what should and shouldnt be done to keep yourself safe, so the all in one place lists dont benefit their target audiences anyhow. DV

toservez -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 8:40:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire quote: ORIGINAL: toservez What I am the most disappointed in though is we often just love to believe all newbies are idiots and cannot possibly have common sense and are able to process multiple pieces of information for themselves. That they cannot figure out what works for them, what risks they are willing to take and how to go about minimalizing those risks. I have always taken the "what every newbie should know" posts as direct responses to the tons of newbie horror stories that we see posted. Not every newbie is an idiot, but the vast majority that find their way to the forums after their first disasterous attempt asking "why me?" are the ones we see. Thos are the ones who CANNOT figure out what works for them, obviously, and who CANNOT process the informaton and keep themselves safe. You dont hear nearly as many brag stories about first expereinces that went amazingly well. People love to lament the negative, and when we see so much negative and so little positive, people assume there really is more negative and write these little helpful hints to try and lessen them. Problem is, the vast majority of the newbies getting involved in those risky stupid things arent reading the boards anyway. If they were, there are a ton of places they can see what should and shouldnt be done to keep yourself safe, so the all in one place lists dont benefit their target audiences anyhow. DV I agree except for the tone of the ones who do write. I think we see many more asking questions looking for real answers and getting fed look out horror stories from experience people then the people writing a disastrous horror story. Sorry but I do not find posts on my other turned out to be a loser a disaster story but a common life story. Most posts are just going to have a negative tint to them as most people just are not going to write or comment on post that basically read “Everything is great”. It is just my opinion that there is a clear bent on replies that concentrate on the assumption that newbies are idiots but this is just part of the overall disease all message boards have and that is to make judgment on people with only knowing a few sentences. To answer BioJen why I think there is too much of using strong language and relating worse case scenarios I just feel like we never grow out of high school and part of us want to think because we are in this life that makes us a little special and to think anyone can play makes us feel less special. You can see this anywhere in any occupation and hobby amongst other things.

KatyLied -> RE: Newbies should/shouldn't...says who? (4/8/2008 8:44:38 AM)
There will always be people who want to play safety police. Sometimes it's sincere, sometimes it's a ruse they use in finding a partner (hey, looky at me, I have your best interests in mind, the line forms here, yeah, I may be an abuser but I don't appear that way, do I?). I think that if adults are going to play adult games they should be responsible for themselves. They should learn to listen to their own safety voice and learn when to take a risk and how to manage the risk they take. I'm never impressed by people who copy/paste safety information and post it.

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