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RE: Integrity - 4/10/2008 9:38:51 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty


it ruined a 3 year friendship that had become like a chosen family - i spent as much time at their house as i did at my own, i had a key to their house, i could come and go as i wanted before it ended - and it all ended because they didn't think that i was sorry that a poorly exicuted joke hurt her (the female half of the couple's) feelings...you know, accuse me of a lot of things...but don't ever say that it doesn't hurt me to see my friends, family, loved ones hurt...i feel it right along with them...i don't even speak to them now when i see them in person...

chelle


Chelle;

I come from a very working class background (we are so very class conscious here in the UK). I 'rose above it' or 'got out of it' whichever direction to want to use, as a result of education.
It hasn't been easy being in a nether world, where I wasn't accepted anymore by my original class if you like, and although I have had one vanilla marriage where I have known extreme wealth, (because of my education amongst other things) I never felt I fitted...a political thing. small things like not wanting diamonds and gold because of modern slavery etc and preferring to vote labour.
But there's a loss in being seen as both an aspirer and as an enemy to the categories my family wanted to put me in.
There isn't a culture either of family or of place (because I have worked and lived abroad) where I feel I fit. And I don't exactly feel I adhere to lifestylers rules. any rules I adjere to come with my Dom/master.
So yes I feel like an outsider looking in most of the time. And it is difficult to communicate my integrity when I am not accepted and acceptable anyway. I won't and I don't compromise what I feel I need to say.
These are just some of my thoughts.
But I want to thank you for being a friend on IM when I needed to be propped up you were there for me.
I admire your intelligence and aspirations even though it took me a deal of time to see it. That's because I feel you remain true to your heart when speaking rather than true to what you feel others expect you to say.
You're welcome in my home in the UK.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 4/10/2008 9:41:00 AM >

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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To my stalker:
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(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Integrity - 4/10/2008 10:04:01 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

How do you feel when a friend underestimates your integrity? Does it bother you? Does it change your friendship? Are you hurt that a friend thinks you would "do such a thing" and you know it's something you would never do?


I have a strong sense of ethics, so strong I have serious doubts whether I can live up to them and I often fall short of my own ideals for myself.  I question my integrity all the time, and I think this is what keeps me more or less honest.

So, if someone else underestimates my integrity, it doesn't really bother me for long.  Sure, I get defensive or angry but after working through my immediate reactions, I try to figure out why they underestimated me and what grain of truth might be present.  I guess I just try to understand why they came to the conclusion they did, to get their perspective.

Richard Sennet wrote some where: "No matter how erratic one's life, one's word must be good."   Its one of those things that really stuck with me.  I try really hard to both have good words and make good on my words.   And, to have those words questioned only helps me to make them better.  So, if another questions my integrity I take it, at least potentially, as a sign of respect (I try not to be too naive here.  Some people are just mean).

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“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Integrity - 4/10/2008 10:04:19 AM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
Integrity… The adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty. To behave in accordance with your values, to be sincere, and to be faithful to what you believe is important.

How do you feel when a friend underestimates your integrity? Does it bother you? Does it change your friendship? Are you hurt that a friend thinks you would "do such a thing" and you know it's something you would never do?

Cali


Given that I believe humans, on average, tend to be untrustworthy, selfish, shifty, underhanded, deceitful, and any number of other fun adjectives, I cannot say that I am deeply bothered when someone is skeptical about integrity.

I will be blunt and admit that I tend to hope for the best with my friends, but plan for the worst.  In other words, I don't expect them to be unethical (of course, we all have our own definitions of ethics, but that's another story for another thread), but I don't expect them to be ethical either.  One, in my opinion, should always be ready for a variety of options.

Likewise, I don't get too upset when people do the same with me.  I mean, I like to think I'm a quite principled person (even if you don't agree with my principles), but I've had my lapses as well; I feel it would be two-faced to expect someone else to believe I am perfectly ethical at all times.

Now, if this is something major, with no past history, and with someone who has developed a deep enough relationship with me that they should know what the boundaries of trust are, then I might be offended.  But we're talking like "Hey, I don't really believe you're not going to kill those three babies" kind of doubt here.

Maybe I'm just jaded.


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Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Integrity - 4/10/2008 4:54:51 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

I only have friends where I trust their integrity, someone I don't trust is mearly an aquaintence.

If someone shows Me they don't trust MY integrity it is the same as them saying they only view Me as an aquaintence, not as a friend.

So yes it would change how I viewed them... To Me however it wouldn't be changing what they are... just clarifying the reality as I may have mistakenly thought they where friend rather than aquaintence.


Sometimes though with me, the 'feeling' friend comes before any test of integirty. I don't know what creates that feeling of frienship. It's like an instinct or empathic feeling that friendship, as opposed to aquaintance. will be there and remain and trust will ensue.
To be honest, I have rarely if ever turned a friendship into a sexual/bdsm relationship. Whether i conscously or unconsciously choose not to do so I haveen't figures out or looked deeply into. Therefore bdsm/sex up front is easy for me with casual (deeply embarassed to admit) strangers. Anfd therefore it's no wonder that I get burned. Once the bdsm/sex thing is over it takes me a way long time, if ever to get a friendship. The two worlds seem miles aprt.
In other words submitting to a friend seems to me to be a n'y impossible thing.
I know, I know...........maybe one day I will find integrity as an instinct first and then kneel.....meanwhile I keep on choosing the lying bastards........it's almost like I've got lying bastard and dominant crossed wired......

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 4/10/2008 4:59:09 PM >

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Integrity - 4/10/2008 9:44:06 PM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		(fast reply)

I do pride myself on my integrity.

As to would I be hurt ... yeah, I'd be stung.  But, rather than just brush it off as the other person's problem I'd try to take a really hard look at them and myself.  If the person making the accusation is narrow, unperceptive and not very trust worthy themselves ... well, their opinion is worth about just that. 

If, however, the person is someone you respect and admire ... well, maybe you need to take a look at yourself really hard.  Sometimes people notice things about our behaviour that we can't see (sort of a forest for the trees kinda thing).  If on further introspection you still think they are way off ... take that as an opportunity to examine their character.  Maybe you've missed something about them. Maybe they aren't worth your admiration or maybe ... they were just wrong.  People do make mistakes sometimes.

I wish the OP well,
Wickad

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Integrity - 4/11/2008 6:30:19 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Sometimes though with me, the 'feeling' friend comes before any test of integirty. I don't know what creates that feeling of frienship. It's like an instinct or empathic feeling that friendship, as opposed to aquaintance. will be there and remain and trust will ensue.


With Me if My 'gut intuition' is OK with them and stays OK with them whilst I get to know them, then there need never be a test of that integrity so long as no actions ever challenge that. Sure I have been bitten in the past where My trust in a 'firends' integrity has proven unfounded (Not to mention My trust in their friendship).... but I only get bitten once by that person, they never get in a position to do so twice.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Integrity - 4/11/2008 7:22:04 AM   
Nikko1962


Posts: 31
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear your unfortunate experience.

To answer your question.  Yes it's devastating.

It definately and absolutely changes the friendship.  When people assume lack of integrity I find it very distasteful. 

Your character is defined by your actions when no one is looking. You have to be able to look in the mirror at yourself every morning and not be ashamed.  Don't feel guilty and don't question your feelings. I suspect they assumed your actions because it's something they would do and are projecting onto you.

What I do in situations similar to this is to quietly thank and forgive the person, and then move on with my life without them participating any longer.  They aren't really people that I would want to spend more time or energy with, but I'm glad that they've helped me to be more clear about who I am and who I want to spend time with. 

I consider 50% of everyone that I've met generally a stranger. I'm indifferent to them at best, but still feel it's very, very important to use the little things like consideration, politeness, awareness, etc.  Letting someone move into your lane when they signal for example.

The next 40% I consider acquaintances (people that I work with everyday for example)

Maybe the last 10% I would consider a friend.  I have high standards for a friend.  Call me if you're going to be late.  Tell me what you really think, not what is politically correct.  I enjoy candor, transparency and courage.  I've got friends who I disagree with on many, many issues.  I still value them greatly because they actually have thought it through for themselves and have their own opinion versus just parroting what they think they "should" be saying, because everyone else is saying the same thing.

Be true to yourself.  Have personal courage.  It's not easy, but it's worth it every morning when you look in the mirror.



_____________________________

Everything you want is on the other side of fear.

If you are going to hide in the haystack from me, at least make a little noise.


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(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Integrity - 4/11/2008 7:36:36 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Integrity… The adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty. To behave in accordance with your values, to be sincere, and to be faithful to what you believe is important.

How do you feel when a friend underestimates your integrity? Does it bother you? Does it change your friendship? Are you hurt that a friend thinks you would "do such a thing" and you know it's something you would never do?

Cali




Hey Cali,
i have experienced this too and it hurts. Particularly when judged by another's code of morals and ethics as if mine are not "good enough".  i have just started reading the 4 agreements and i feel it will be very helpful with futher relationships regardless of the type.
 
 i am still trying to process the last "set of standards" i failed to live up to - i really need to stop caring what others think of me - i just have this over whelming desire to please everyone and it gets in the way at times when i have to champion myself~ 

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It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Integrity - 4/11/2008 8:52:13 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I plan on picking up the book as soon as I have a moment.  I don't start threads often, and when I do, it's usually when I'm stuck in one way of thinking and am looking for other viewpoints that had not occurred to me.  I appreciate everybody's input, I really do.  Thank you.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 49
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