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Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 8:18:10 AM

athleticman

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/10/2008
Status: offline

Hi,

A question for the dominant ladies:

Some, if not most or all, female dominants will reject immediately a prospective submissive after learning that the subbie has played a dominant role with partners in the past.

Is it a universal experience that if a man has topped in his past (tied up a girlfriend, dommed a sub woman), even if he claims to be a true submissive on the deepest level, when push comes to shove the self-proclaimed sub will only be interested in trying to top from the bottom?

If a man is seeking real submission to a real dominant lady to fulfill his natural tendencies, but remains capable of playing the role of a master because it brings a woman pleasure, and he enjoys it on a superficial level, is he being disingenuous by labeling himself a "submissive" and not a "switch"?

Ultimately, do dominant women strongly prefer a total submissive man who could never act out a dominant role, or do some enjoy the challenge of breaking-in an obedient sub who is eager to please but has many "masculine" traits as well?

Which matters more in evaluating a prospective slave, what they claim is in their heart or their experience?

Sorry for the long questions. Thank you for your time.

Bill

Post #: 1

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 8:43:10 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: athleticman

Hi,

A question for the dominant ladies:

Some, if not most or all, female dominants will reject immediately a prospective submissive after learning that the subbie has played a dominant role with partners in the past.

Is it a universal experience that if a man has topped in his past (tied up a girlfriend, dommed a sub woman), even if he claims to be a true submissive on the deepest level, when push comes to shove the self-proclaimed sub will only be interested in trying to top from the bottom?

If a man is seeking real submission to a real dominant lady to fulfill his natural tendencies, but remains capable of playing the role of a master because it brings a woman pleasure, and he enjoys it on a superficial level, is he being disingenuous by labeling himself a "submissive" and not a "switch"?

Ultimately, do dominant women strongly prefer a total submissive man who could never act out a dominant role, or do some enjoy the challenge of breaking-in an obedient sub who is eager to please but has many "masculine" traits as well?

Which matters more in evaluating a prospective slave, what they claim is in their heart or their experience?

Sorry for the long questions. Thank you for your time.

Bill

Ok, where did you get the information in your first statement? Is that based only on your experience? I'd actually suggest that its not really correct. Personally, I'd welcome someone with that kind of experience -- I like switches... among other things.

I certainly know how to handle someone who tries to top from the bottom and again, I don't have that experience. I've had more bratty submissives.. and people who profess to be 100% submissive try to pull that than others.

I think labeling is something you get to do for yourself, however you want to do it. I get to decide if what's inside matches my definition of the label. But that label is really just a starting point.

As to the rest of your questions -- please look at my profile for my views on the rest of your post.

I think, however, your opening statement is not correct.

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 2

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 10:06:38 AM

Pyrrsefanie

Posts: 1222
Joined: 9/18/2007
From: NEW HAMPSHAAAAAAH!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: athleticman
1. Is it a universal experience that if a man has topped in his past (tied up a girlfriend, dommed a sub woman), even if he claims to be a true submissive on the deepest level, when push comes to shove the self-proclaimed sub will only be interested in trying to top from the bottom?

2. If a man is seeking real submission to a real dominant lady to fulfill his natural tendencies, but remains capable of playing the role of a master because it brings a woman pleasure, and he enjoys it on a superficial level, is he being disingenuous by labeling himself a "submissive" and not a "switch"?

3. Ultimately, do dominant women strongly prefer a total submissive man who could never act out a dominant role, or do some enjoy the challenge of breaking-in an obedient sub who is eager to please but has many "masculine" traits as well?

4. Which matters more in evaluating a prospective slave, what they claim is in their heart or their experience?

1. Many people have experimented on both sides of the fence before... I don't personally think that a man with a past history of being dominant is a lost cause, or any less of a submissive if his heart and mind are truly in it. My boy right now has always been holding the reins until he met me. I find that different people bring out different qualities in a person -- I've experienced it myself. But I don't think that makes me any less dominant to have previously been submissive to a handful of people when I was younger and still exploring.

2. Labels are for soup-cans. I would only imagine he should be called a "switch" if he's interested in pursuing a switch relationship. If he is only interested in submitting, regardless of his past history or what he may enjoy, then I'd think that calling himself a submissive is fine. He may want to mention, however, that he has been dominant in the past and is just now exploring submission -- some dommes would probably say "thanks, but no thanks" at that point, but if that's the case then they're not compatible with you anyway.

3. I can't stand grovelling subs. I like submissive men who physically appear to be strong, and like they could kick some ass in a fight if we were ever ambushed by ninjas after a night on the town. There's something all the more delicious about breaking down a "manly-man" and I have to admit I adore it when they have a bit of fight in them. Just because a man submits does not mean he gives up any masculinity, unless he's interested in sissy-play, which is a whole 'nother box of rocks.

4. Always, and irrevocably, what truly IS in their heart.

_____________________________

Ти саркастична, це – доля,
Ти артистична в неволі,
Ти симпатична в цій ролі,
Ти синтетична до болю

Read my series, Taking Jessica, on http://www.akashaweb.com !

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 3

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 11:03:11 AM

MadameMarque

Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline

There came a time when I realized that every person who had been submissive to me had previously been the dominant, in their past D/s relationships. Since then, I have had the opportunity to be dominant with one person who is a submissive personality. However, I found that he had in common with those others that he felt strongly about what, and more importantly, who he wanted, had a desire to make me, personally, his alpha and so, was loyal in prioritizing me, was passionate in nature, and was not passive but proactive and interactive, as a submissive.

Though it may seem obvious to observe, different submissives or slaves have different ways of being submissive or of being a slave. I tend to like a strong personality who desires to submit to me, personally, and feels a strong naturally loyalty to one person, in that regard, rather than to just anyone who picks up his leash, metaphorically (or literally!) speaking.

    He was aware of her dark eyes on him as he walked up the steps, his boots stomping loudly. He had her eyes. He knew that and liked it.
     She glanced down at his boots. "Too hot to be wearing those things, I should think."
     "I like them." He gave the swing a gentle push and swung down beside her.
     "What have you been doing?"
     "Just messing around."
     "You've got leaves in your hair." She reached up and he bent his head docilely, letting her brush at his hair, unruly and sweat curling. She smelled like the lilacs. The phone rang inside the house. She pulled her hand back and stood.
     "I'll get that."
     Wolf dug his heels into the peeling wood floor, shoving the swing back and forth, as he listened to her footsteps inside the house, and then, the picking up of the phone, and her voice.
     She sounded young and happy. He liked to hear her sound like that.
     Wolf leaned back in the swing and watched the red sun set.

- excerpts from Wolf's Daddy, The Green Hotel: Stories by Gordon Hoban

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 4

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 11:45:59 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I prefer a sub who desires to serve -- not to be broken, not to be beaten down, and not merely to experience a fetish or sexual thrill.

I think switching is very common and I never look down on anyone who has switched in the past or currently switches -- I would not own Fox if I had that criteria and to date he has been/is my best slave.

Their experience and knowledge must be coupled with desire and self motivation to work for me. Plus a lot of overlapping in mundane matters. Or to put it another way, I'd rather play with a former dominant who has decided he wants to be on the other side than some self-proclaimed slave whose idea of slavery is giving me oral sex or seeing me in high heels.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 5

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 12:57:53 PM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Yep, I'd agree that I don't care what role a submissive has played in the past. I spend a lot of time with people who have a violent or dominant nature; I find that when such people submit, they do so with great sincerity--and great relief.

< Message edited by ShaktiSama -- 4/9/2008 1:04:33 PM >

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 6

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 1:42:06 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
Status: offline

Bill (A.K.A. athleticman),

--- Some, if not most or all, female dominants
--- will reject immediately a prospective submissive
--- after learning that the subbie has played a
--- dominant role with partners in the past.

I have not found this to be true. What I have found is that Dominas will consider a submissive's intent and honesty. If a Domina is looking for a submissive and it appears that an applicant isn't forthright and capable in this position, they will reject that person.

--- Is it a universal experience that if a man has
--- topped in his past (tied up a girlfriend, dommed
--- a sub woman), even if he claims to be a true
--- submissive on the deepest level, when push
--- comes to shove the self-proclaimed sub will only
--- be interested in trying to top from the bottom?

I'm a submissive who tried being a dominant for a while (quite a long while actually). Am I interested in topping from the bottom? No.

--- If a man is seeking real submission to a real
--- dominant lady to fulfill his natural tendencies,
--- but remains capable of playing the role of a
--- master because it brings a woman pleasure,
--- and he enjoys it on a superficial level, is he being
--- disingenuous by labeling himself a "submissive"
--- and not a "switch"?

Let's disentangle your question to what I think the real issue is. Is a submissive disingenuous because he gives his Domina pleasure in a way she wants, requires, and enjoys, and that he enjoys too? Again, no. In fact, I'd say this is a submissive to be cherished. Just how the submissive chooses to "label" himself, in my opinion, is irrelevant and I dare say it's irrelevant to the Domina who loves him too.

--- Ultimately, do dominant women strongly prefer
--- a total submissive man who could never act out
--- a dominant role, or do some enjoy the challenge
--- of breaking-in an obedient sub who is eager to
--- please but has many "masculine" traits as well?

Every *woman* is unique as is every relationship. Some Dominas like complete, submissive passivity. Others abhor this and prefer a more active, challenging partner. Many Dominas enjoy elements of both attributes, depending on context.

--- Which matters more in evaluating a prospective
--- slave, what they claim is in their heart or their
--- experience?

Neither. In my experience, Dominas enjoy submissives who are polite, capable, respectful, humorous, kind, creative, intelligent, romantic, pro-active, and compassionate. It certainly doesn't hurt if the prospective submissive is an effective communicator. It also helps when the Domina and submissive feel a sense of chemistry, comfort, and attraction (physical, intellectual, emotional) with one another.

Elan.

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 7

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 2:18:35 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

This answer will not sit well with many, but it is My own perspective.

A person's past is not nearly as relevant as their present. I take no one's past and hold it against them.

Where we have found ourselves in relationships prior, means less to Me than where they should hope to conduct their journey from today. Who am I to decide that those past experiences have helped to form who a person is in their own right.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Post #: 8

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 4:58:37 PM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

We are more likely to reject someone who labels himself as a current switch than someone who has been Dominant in the past. We aren't interested in anyone who may "forget" who is in charge of our household, but just because they have been on 'our' side of the D/s fence doesn't pose a particular problem as long as their current attitude is correct for us.

_____________________________

Miss Karen and Miss Holly

Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.

Friends are God's apology for relatives

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 9

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 8:17:46 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

There may be more to why you are getting this kind of response. Your profile doesn't say much and in fact gives the impression that you don't really identify with any role at all, but just want to play around. That's OK because we all have to gain experience and try things out, but for a woman seeking a serious, committed D/s relationship it might be a turn off, or she just might not take you seriously.

Some of the negative attitude toward Doms who want to be submissive is that many women have been played by Doms who swear they really want to be submissive, but when it comes time to really let go of the reins, they are game players. It's actually pretty common and most aren't serious, just horny. So that, coupled with a profile that doesn't really say "take me seriously" it's not surprising you are getting that reaction. My advise would be to put some effort into your profile and say a little more about who you are and what you have to offer. As other's have already said, it's not what you did in your past or how you identified, it's how serious you are about committing now, and that's what you have to show.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

Post #: 10

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/9/2008 10:55:34 PM

MySweetSubmssive

Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline

Do I give men who have been/are dominant the hairy eyeball when they say they wish to explore submission? Yes.

But I do that with men who say that they are submissive as well.

I used to turn these people down flat, and if someone now gets in contact through a dominant profile, I am still vereeee skeptical.

I press people hard for motivation. Are they a domonaholiday, submitting today and snapping back to themselves next week? Or is there something sincere, devoted, searching in them? THOSE people are delicious. The way this person communicates his intent strongly affects how much time I spend with him. With a few submissives I have known, they've waited to tell me that they had previously been top, dom or even owned a slave. I was glad they had waited, not to conceal this from me, but to so I could get to know what they are seeking now rather than in the past.

It's funny that I have this skepticism because I have found dominance and submission to be more similar that dissimilar.

The question for me, as with anyone getting in touch, is trust -- their previous experience in a dominant role is simply the lens that trust gets played out through.

To answer your penultimate question, I do not enjoy "totally submissive" men -- what you are suggesting sounds milquetoast and boring. I also don't like uppity people who "need" to be broken. Being uppity is not the same as being dominant. Being boring is not the same as being submissive. I look for a person who can stand on his own two feet, but prefers being on his knees. As a side note, I am turned on by competence in a man. For whatever reason, a signifigant proportion of submissive men whom I talk to lack an area of comptence or chose to hide that. Perhaps they think it is un-submissive. God know, but it's a drag.

MSS

< Message edited by MySweetSubmssive -- 4/9/2008 11:12:32 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, James, you're such a cunning linguist."

--Miss Moneypenny

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 11

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/10/2008 12:38:29 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I interact with a person based on how they interact with me. What I care about in their past most are things that caused damage, made them feel fullfilled, hurt them or brought them joy. If being a Dom in another relationship falls under one of those categories, I want to hear about it. Doesn't mean they're rejected for it.

But, you have to understand how many come to us saying one thing while hoping for another.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 12

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/10/2008 5:41:49 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

My current sub used to be a Gorean Master. He realized after much research that their philosophy just didn't hold water and it had caused him much pain over the years hiding his true submissive self.

It's been quite a journey at first I was hesitant to take him on, but damn I do enjoy a good challenge so I went ahead. It was a roller coaster ride for awhile, I bascially had to "deprogram" him which took a while. Then we had to deal with his emerging submissive feelings/desires which were very overwhelming as he'd been hiding them forever.

The toughest part was when he got hit with the "If I'm a sub am I still a macho guy?", as you know male subs have the unearned stereotype of being weak worms, my sub is anything but a weak worm. He is very macho and is now very secure with himself. He doesn't have to hide who he is, he is finally comfortable in his own skin. He had to fight this internal demon and it took a good year, we had lots of talks, arguments and reflection time. But in the end he came out a much happier, fulfilled man.

I don't mind if he is dominant in somethings, but when it comes to the decision making/bedroom, those are my areas and they are hands off. I didn't care that he lacked "sub" experience, what I cared about was teaching him to be the sub for me and thats exactly what I did.

Hope this helps.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 13

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/10/2008 7:21:54 AM

athleticman

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/10/2008
Status: offline

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. It's comforting to confirm that there is a diversity of perspectives in the female domination community, or at least this little corner of it.

In my own experience, I have found a diversity of views, but more than a few dommes who have asked at the outset something to the affect of "What experience do you have in bdsm?" or "what experience do you have serving a mistress.?" I try to answer any question as honestly and thoroughly as possible, and might give too much info in the process, but better to be honest and rejected than lie (and deserving of rejection later).

Some dommes, not limited to Collar Me, but several additional online venues, have categorically rejected me and cited my previous experiences in topping as the reason. This has certainly not been the case in the majority of my interactions (all of which have been online), but in enough of them to get me ruminating on the extent of this perspective among dommes.

I have my answer and I appreciate the thoughts expressed here.

Bill

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 14

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/10/2008 9:33:43 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Chuckles would depend on if he wanted to tie me up..

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 15

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/10/2008 11:48:12 PM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

I would be hypocritical if I rejected a sub who has topping experience ... as I am a duality, I like to top and bottom at the same time! Fortunately, despite the fact that Master really wanted a "sub only sub" He was willing to consider a Domme who is also a sub .. and I don't think He regrets that. And once I have My sub here too ... His arse will be a bit safer LOL!

Seriously, I wouldn't reject someone who has top experience just because of that. In fact, I would welcome it as it means he might have a better idea of how tough the job is at times. Like MasterFireMaam I am only interested in the past in terms of what I need to know about it as far as the future goes. Otherwise, I am very future oriented. What is in your heart now? And what do you foresee for the future inasmuch as you can tell?

I've actually had more problems with "know it all subs" than with previous tops. The ones who've done just about everything before so You practically have to murder them to give them a new experience LOL! And those who were so trained by previous Dommes that they can't adapt to My rules eg they were trained into "eyes down" and can't adjust to My "eye contact" rule. The question about serving should be answered with some specifics about what you have thought about in terms of what you can offer a Domme in the way of service. And perhaps stress that you've not got into any bad subbie habits!

However, that said, I have no interest in "breaking in" someone ... when he comes to Me he has to be in the mindset of submitting willingly. I can accept he might be dominant with someone else, with Me, he'd need to be in his subby persona, especially at the beginning. Over time a bit more tease could sneak in maybe, but no actually topping. I don't want a weak pathetic grovelling worm, no, but I do want a strong man with his own mind and input who is willing to bend the knee to Me.

Have to say that with you OP ... your nick would be enough for Me to pass you by ... partly because I am not an athletic woman so I would think you wouldn't be attracted to Me ... and also because it MIGHT be that if you are "in love" with your own body and with improving it ... that might not leave much time for serving Me. Worth considering if that nick is giving you the best shot!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to athleticman)

Post #: 16

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/11/2008 2:20:00 AM

chezzy52

Posts: 220
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline

Lady Pact,i'm glad you brought that up.I became involved in the lifestyle when there wasn't any computers,sites or forums to possibly meet someone.My submissive experience isn't great but neither was my dominant or switch because of the difficulty in finding like minded individuals.Those days are thankfully over.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 17

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/11/2008 7:56:16 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

I have had dominants approach me wanting to explore submission---or at least, bottoming---and whether I accept them or not depends on their approach, their intent, and their sincerity, just as with any other man who is interested in me as a dominant.

Recently a man approached me and in spite of my asking nicely that he NOT call me Mistress, persisted in doing what HE wanted, because he said he felt he was showing "respect". Now, is showing respect for me following my instruction, or doing things the way his fantasy dictated?

If my submissive has a top side, I have no issue with letting him express it with others, as long as it's understood that I am the Queen of Everything as far as our relationship goes. (Power exchange, not power struggle!

)

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to chezzy52)

Post #: 18

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/11/2008 6:36:39 PM

vampchick88

Posts: 346
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline

If pet ever told me he held a dominant role in his past I'd want to know what he did and how he enjoyed it, etc Just out of curosity. I'll have to agree with LadyPact, past is done present is what matters,so pet and I are just two lovely peas in a really twisted pod.

_____________________________

Proud owner of rubberpet, the best investment of my time, trust, and heart that any Domme could ever dream of.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 19

RE: Evaluating a Sub's Previous Experiences - 4/12/2008 12:12:30 AM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

~FR~
I am not opposed to taking on a top or a male dom who claims he wants to explore his submissive side. However, it would not be under the circimstances of being collared or being 24/7. I would test the waters, if I felt it was worhtwhile. And the testing would explore submission in ways other than as a kinky bottom. That, IMO, is the true test of submissive feelings and how well they can move into that sapce, even on a part time basis. After that, things could develop more fully. I have to say, in all honesty, that it hasn't happened yet. My personal experience is that of Lady Hibiscus...the "former" dom wanting the thrill of submission (on his terms, of course) but not even realizing that they are still topping from the bottom and only satisfying a temporary fantasy.
If things were to move-on, I would not have a problem with the sub/slave topping on occasion, with My blessing, as long as it wasn't with Me.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to vampchick88)

Post #: 20

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