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just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 7:43:33 PM   
Othie


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/8/2005
Status: offline 		This is my first post and I hope I'm not offending anyone with what I type. But I was hoping to get everyone's thoughts on a few newbie questions. That said I'm a true newbie, more of someone who is starting to relearn after leaving the lifestyle because of a scare.

The first set:
Do you believe that a Dom/sub are equals? Or is the sub below the Dom? I know, or atleast everyone I have asked, will tell me that a Dom's word is "law" or that he has the last word. What happens when the sub/slave feels strongly that they are wrong? I'm guessing they can't say "no, thats not right." but it seems like it would come up with anyone who thinks for themself...and not being able to say anything must feel like holding your anger inside...that can't be healthy.

Second set:
With a sub/slave, do you feel that she/he should address you as Master/Sir at all times? For example, if your sub/slave comes in after a long day at work or other such thing, do you feel she should greet you as Master? If so, does this hold true when there are other none lifestyle people around? Do you like your subs/slaves to talk causal with you? Or should it all remain formal? Have you ever had a sub/slave feel they can't be causal around you?

I'm sure these seem like odd questions, but thank you to all who took the time to read and answer them.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 7:54:32 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I'd answer your questions, but...I'm a very very BAD slave...and I might give you the idea that people are equal despite the titles they come up with for themselves, and that sometimes real life interferes with our play life.
And that sometimes even though the master has the last word, the sub/slave might feel strongly enough about an issue to pursue it.
Run away quick, before I say something silly!

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 8:19:16 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If you need someone who isn't so puffed up as to believe he can't do anything wrong, then good for you. One of the things I do for The Man is ask him questions about things when I believe he's overlooked stuff. And I tell him flat out when I think he's heading for a fall. I'm supposed to do that, not stand back and watch him make a fool of himself.

As to times when we just disagree and cannot convince the other or compromise? Well here it seems only to be in stepfamily issues, and our solution is to take the occasional problem to a child psychologist for suggestions. We both want a good outcome, and we've discovered that if we're on diametrically opposed sides, then usually we need to get an objective opinion from an expert in the area. I have no problem asking a lawyer, an accountant, a psychologist for advice. Or an excavator for thoughts about how to deal with the continuing washouts of the driveway.

If either of us could solve the issue, we would. The fact that we can't means we're missing info. Now if it's a bdsm thing, say he wants to try suspension and I don't think he knows what he's doing, then I would call red. We'd research it. If he wants to do inverted suspension I have no problem saying that's a hard limit and I can't go there (it would set off my vertigo).

The relationship is based on consent. If I have to withdraw consent to protect myself, then I will. And that means he's failed as a dominant because he made me believe that he doesn't care what happens to me.

We don't do sir or master or pet or slut or whatever. Mainly it's honey and sweetheart.  And I wear a necklace not a giant locking leather and steel contraption. Whatever you need is what you need. Don't compromise because doing without will come back to bite you in the end.

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 4/10/2008 8:20:56 PM >

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 8:21:48 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Othie
The first set:
Do you believe that a Dom/sub are equals? Or is the sub below the Dom?

All people are equal in terms of human rights and potential opportunity.  No human is equal to another in terms of actual skill and authority.

In Ds generally, they are equal partners in an unequal authority dynamic.
quote:


I know, or atleast everyone I have asked, will tell me that a Dom's word is "law" or that he has the last word. What happens when the sub/slave feels strongly that they are wrong? I'm guessing they can't say "no, thats not right." but it seems like it would come up with anyone who thinks for themself...and not being able to say anything must feel like holding your anger inside...that can't be healthy.

Depends on whether you have a master who is unable to admit they are wront, does not allow their slave to voice any opinions, and how anger is processed in that relationship.

quote:


With a sub/slave, do you feel that she/he should address you as Master/Sir at all times? For example, if your sub/slave comes in after a long day at work or other such thing, do you feel she should greet you as Master? If so, does this hold true when there are other none lifestyle people around? Do you like your subs/slaves to talk causal with you? Or should it all remain formal? Have you ever had a sub/slave feel they can't be causal around you?

Whatever works for you, I've known plenty on all sides of this issue.  And yes, many subs try to dictate how they will address their dom and get annoyed when they are ordered to be more casual and relaxed.  Oh well.

You really need to understand this is a thing of your making.  It doesn't matter what everyone else in the world does or doesn't do- it's about what you create for yourself and what dynamic makes you feel more fulfilled.  The more you try to live up to external standards, the quicker you will burn out.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 8:34:51 PM   
Gemini1766


Posts: 991
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Wonderful answers all three of you. Of course there will be others who will pipe up on the other side of the fence, but My mindset is that I can be wrong, and I want to be informed. Better my sub/slave let me know before I make an utter fool of myself, which I am very capable of (I haven't managed to displace the Gods, yet).

I believe that D/s M/s is a two way street where respect and trust goes both ways. How can I trust, or respect, a sub/slave who will not be open with me an let me know their thoughts on something I wish to do? If my sub/slave gets turned on, wonderful, let's  move forward with it and have the red flag handy incase things don't work out as expected. Otherwise I want to know why my sub/slave is looking frightened and ready to bolt. Talk to me, tell me what's wrong. I am only human, and I know it. Talk to me, communicate, and trust and respect will be maintained.

Pretentious crap is just that. If you don't want that kind of relationship where you must use titles at all times, then don't get into such. If you love it and want it that way, then fine do it. Both the D and s, or M and s need to be happy happy with the situation. If not, then something is wrong.

That's my
Gem

< Message edited by Gemini1766 -- 4/10/2008 8:35:22 PM >

_____________________________

"Strangers do not owe strangers anything, beyond an obeisance to the laws mutual conduct as dictated by the land in which they live. Anything else is negotiable." puella

"TwistedKinkerBell's online male companion of a nearly intimate nature."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 9:02:25 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Keep in mind that the basis of a BDSM relationship is safe, sane, and consensual.  If the sub ever feels that those things are not being met then they have not just the right, but the duty, to say so.

The lifestyle is also built on power exchange.  The sub ALLOWS another to have dominance over them.  That can take much more personal power than giving someone commands.

As for the name used, that depends on the relationship.  I have a Daddy/Master who prefers to be called Daddy, but He also allows me to call Him pet names like Sweet Cheeks when we write to each other.  My fear is that in public I will forget to use His name and call Him Daddy rather than the other way around. 

Always keep in mind, a sub is not less of a person than their Dom/me - just in a different role.

_____________________________



(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 9:27:04 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen
Keep in mind that the basis of a BDSM relationship is safe, sane, and consensual. 

Except that
a) ssc is meaningless as applied to any individual person/relationship
b) many many bdsm relationships would never consider themselves ssc



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to chamberqueen)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 9:34:54 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Ill restate what everyone else so far has stated. The people are equal as people, The power is unequal.

If my (Invisdible) D type, wants something, that I know I can NOT do no matter what, for personal or moral reasons. He will know before we are in said situation, he will know my stance on it. And If I have to pull the Im sorry Sir My body My decision card. He will know well in advance that I will defy him on this situation. He can punish me for my choice, he can if he needs to release me for this, I will accept it with respect for him. But there are somethings in my life of how I was raised I know I will never change, and thats part of being me and owning me....

As for the you are right/wrong. I try, to approach it more of, do you think maybe, theres a chance that this could be the solution. I dont point a finger and go ( I try not to at least...) Your wrong you stupid yada yada. I try to make him feel like Im not attacking him I just think that maybe this way is better or more efficiant. Sure he can tell me to be quiet...Yes I will obey. Will I look like im about to die sometimes from being told to be quiet. Yes. Does he see how much its affecting me and usually allow me to say what it is I need to. Sometimes. Do I excuse myself and go to another room and scream so I can better handle the situation. Yes If that needs to be done.

If he angers me, I talk to him about it, I try not to let it fester.....

And finally In private or around those who know my choice, I usually call him what he wishes... usually a mix of his name daddy sir and such. In public I always call him by his name or by Sir.


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to chamberqueen)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 9:39:47 PM   
Othie


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/8/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the answers, they are very helpful and honestly put some of my doubts to rest. I was collared a week ago and my Dom has been wonderful about answering my questions and working with me, but it helps to see a few different points of view. One of my biggest things is that I want a equal relationship, I enjoy submitting, but I would feel very hurt if He thought of me as less then Him, instead of His equal. But now I'm starting to babble again, I'm sorry

Thank you all again, it was very good for me to see how others see these questions.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 10:02:57 PM   
ShadowKing


Posts: 13
Joined: 11/18/2007
From: West Richland, WA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Othie
Do you believe that a Dom/sub are equals? Or is the sub below the Dom? I know, or atleast everyone I have asked, will tell me that a Dom's word is "law" or that he has the last word. What happens when the sub/slave feels strongly that they are wrong? I'm guessing they can't say "no, thats not right." but it seems like it would come up with anyone who thinks for themself...and not being able to say anything must feel like holding your anger inside...that can't be healthy.


To reiterate what others have said, our relationship would be moot without both parties. The sub is just as important to the relationship as the Dom. As far as power goes, the sub gives the Dom power because the Dom demonstrates trustworthiness to her.

When it comes to being right, I insist that my sub inform me when I am doing something that is stupid or am about to make a fool of myself. However, she must do so respectfully and do her best to preserve my honor. (Which is why she is telling me in the first place.)

We run into issues when she does not tell me information that is pertinent to the situation. The other day, I was pushing her a little bit, and I noticed her flinch. When asked, she lied and told me that she was fine. (not a good idea)
Once cornered, it came out that her lower stomach had been hurting all day, and was really tender. She didn't want me to hold back just because of her.

What she didn't understand is that I must know what is going on with her so that I can make informed decisions about how to handle her. When I hurt her, I want to know I am doing it. I may still choose to let her experience pain, but I at least need to be the one deciding when that happens.

So to sum up, as a loyal sub, it should be your responsibility to protect his honor, and discreetly and respectfully provide him with additional information. If he still chooses to do things his way, then at least he had a chance...

(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/10/2008 11:59:12 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Othie

Do you believe that a Dom/sub are equals? Or is the sub below the Dom? I know, or atleast everyone I have asked, will tell me that a Dom's word is "law" or that he has the last word. What happens when the sub/slave feels strongly that they are wrong? I'm guessing they can't say "no, thats not right." but it seems like it would come up with anyone who thinks for themself...and not being able to say anything must feel like holding your anger inside...that can't be healthy.

With me and my girl, she can voice her opinion all she wants, but I DO have the last word. In the end, it's her duty to obey. It's my responsibility to deal with the aftermath of her doing what I demanded. The caveat to all this is that we are well enough matched that there's little I'd demand of her that would truly harm her.

quote:


With a sub/slave, do you feel that she/he should address you as Master/Sir at all times? For example, if your sub/slave comes in after a long day at work or other such thing, do you feel she should greet you as Master? If so, does this hold true when there are other none lifestyle people around? Do you like your subs/slaves to talk causal with you? Or should it all remain formal? Have you ever had a sub/slave feel they can't be causal around you?

On the rare occassion, my girl will address me as Fire. Syr anne (the very dominant side of my girl) will come out and she'll be giving advice or making statements like, 'Well, you know, Fire...this happened because you did this...", usually refering to something in my personal life. I don't particularly care for it, but I realize why she's doing it, although I don't think she does. The more I catch her doing it, the less she does it. However, she IS allowed to call me Fire if we are in a setting, such as work or school, where calling me Master or Ma'am would just be too out of place.

With those two exceptions, I prefer Ma'am at all times. Master is when she's refering TO me, Ma'am is when she's talking TO me. That's actually in my protocol.

My girl and I often talk casually...she just uses Ma'am as my name. We laugh and play and have a good time. she's "The Companion" and we fit well together. You should see us giggle about the cute waiters at Denny's....

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 2:27:25 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Othie

The first set:
Do you believe that a Dom/sub are equals? Or is the sub below the Dom? I know, or atleast everyone I have asked, will tell me that a Dom's word is "law" or that he has the last word.

We are equal in the power each contributes to create a D/s dynamic.  But D/s *is* a control based dynamic - we are NOT equal on who has authority.  The girl has the choices I give her plus her own to leave if she's not satisfied.  I outrank her, but I am not superior to my partners; thus, she is NEVER inferior.

quote:

What happens when the sub/slave feels strongly that they are wrong? I'm guessing they can't say "no, thats not right." but it seems like it would come up with anyone who thinks for themself...and not being able to say anything must feel like holding your anger inside...that can't be healthy.

As the one in charge, I'm ultimately responsible for making the right decisions.  But mistakes inevitably happen and she's allowed to be right at my expense.  Admitting mistakes is an important part of leadership (which is why our heads of state are merely puppets put in charge, instead). 
 
If the girl and I reach an impasse on something BIG, and especially if emotions are simmering, then we sort it out as adult equals - where I will NOT pull rank on her.  In return, I expect her to be at least civil and respectful while balancing listening with talking.  OTH, if the impasse is a matter of personal taste etc, there's every chance I will pull rank and expect her to "tow the line".

quote:

Second set:
With a sub/slave, do you feel that she/he should address you as Master/Sir at all times? For example, if your sub/slave comes in after a long day at work or other such thing, do you feel she should greet you as Master? If so, does this hold true when there are other none lifestyle people around? Do you like your subs/slaves to talk causal with you? Or should it all remain formal? Have you ever had a sub/slave feel they can't be causal around you?

I'm sure these seem like odd questions, but thank you to all who took the time to read and answer them.

I'm in charge; I lead - the girl takes her cues from me.  When it's just us, I mostly call her 'girl' and expect to be addressed as 'Sir' in response.  When others are present or I'm feeling casual etc, I'll use her given name and expect the same back....  If she's not sure (for eg, we just woke up and I haven't yet said anything), she can address me either way (casual or formal) and my response will dictate what I then expect.  She can't get in trouble for not knowing my initial mood but she certainly can for not following my lead.
 
We all have bad days or moods and I'm not an ogre.  If I think she's struggling or stressed etc, I'm not gonna get on her back.  But everything "depends"....  Often, actively taking charge of a tired submissive and setting a light task or two is a good way to relax them.  Or perhaps a few simple knots and.... presto...., no choice but to relax.
 
I only had one fem/sub who was uncomfortable with banter as equal adults.  I'm a multi-faceted individual; we were never gonna work out....
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 3:35:04 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

Or is the sub below the Dom?

Well when you look at the words themselfs..yes. But as others said..it depends on the relation/partner.
It is a setting both choose, but it doesn't say anything about intelligence, respect etc.

_____________________________

~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 3:41:49 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Othie
The first set:
Do you believe that a Dom/sub are equals? Or is the sub below the Dom? I know, or atleast everyone I have asked, will tell me that a Dom's word is "law" or that he has the last word. What happens when the sub/slave feels strongly that they are wrong? I'm guessing they can't say "no, thats not right." but it seems like it would come up with anyone who thinks for themself...and not being able to say anything must feel like holding your anger inside...that can't be healthy.


They are equal in an unequal balance.  No two people share the exact same strengths or gifts.  The exchange of authority also makes them unequal - however there is still balance.
 
At times, the s-type will have more knowledge on a subject than their d-type.  It will entirely depned on whetehr your dominant is accepting of their faults and what they lack and how open they are to external input.

quote:

Second set:
With a sub/slave, do you feel that she/he should address you as Master/Sir at all times? For example, if your sub/slave comes in after a long day at work or other such thing, do you feel she should greet you as Master? If so, does this hold true when there are other none lifestyle people around? Do you like your subs/slaves to talk causal with you? Or should it all remain formal? Have you ever had a sub/slave feel they can't be causal around you?



I address Darcy how he requires, when he requires it, where ever.  Some relationships would be classed as high protocol or rituals - some less so.  I do as Darcy wants - end of.  If I am having a particular problem or an issue with something, I communicate that and he considers it.  End of the day - still his decision.
 
I can be totally casual around Darcy - I can also be formal.  It is about understanding his desires and the appropriate situations.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 3:50:31 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Keep in mind that the basis of a BDSM relationship is safe, sane, and consensual.  If the sub ever feels that those things are not being met then they have not just the right, but the duty, to say so.

The lifestyle is also built on power exchange.  The sub ALLOWS another to have dominance over them.  That can take much more personal power than giving someone commands.


I have to disagree here.  BDSM relationships are not safe, sane and consensual when applied to individuals.
SSC is a misused catch all term and used by people who want to portray BDSM as ok to the outside looking in.  But why?  Many BDSM relationship thrive on the fact that they arent safe, totally 'sane' and consensual?  Meh - oxymoron. There is risk in any relationship or activity and BDSM is NO exception - pretending otherwise is dangerous, naive and negates responsibility.
 
As a s-type, I submit to Darcy's domiannce over me, but I do not exchange power.  He has authority over me and my life, but does not take my power away and replace it with his.  He adores the power I have.  That is why he is attracted to me in the first place.  His authority dictates my life, not power.  Having power over someone is totally different to having authority.  Huge difference.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to chamberqueen)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 5:04:34 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		I like the way you put that dark.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 6:03:54 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Do you believe that a Dom/sub are equals?

No I do not believe that they are equal.
quote:

  I know, or atleast everyone I have asked, will tell me that a Dom's word is "law" or that he has the last word.

Actually, this is untrue. No one's word is law. Not the Dominant's, not the submissive's.
And certainly, not stranger's who answer a question that is too open ended
quote:

  What happens when the sub/slave feels strongly that they are wrong?

That depends on the submissive/slave and person/people that they are in a relationship with.
quote:

  I'm guessing they can't say "no, thats not right

My question to you would be " why would you think that a person does not have the right to say no?"
Notice, I did not say submissve or slave; I said person. They are human beings first and foremost; and if they feel that something is unhealthy or harmful; then I would hope like hell that they scream the word NO loud and clear.
quote:

  With a sub/slave, do you feel that she/he should address you as Master/Sir at all times?

That depends on the people involved and what they decide.
quote:

  If so, does this hold true when there are other none lifestyle people around?

Same answer as above.
quote:

  Do you like your subs/slaves to talk causal with you? Or should it all remain formal? Have you ever had a sub/slave feel they can't be causal around you?


Once again; it depends on the people involved.

One thing you are going to learn is that everyone handles their own relationships differently; no two people will be the same.

Take what works for you and yours; and leave the rest...it is of no use to you.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 6:13:25 AM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Othie. Ok for the first set. Are left and right, up and down, forward backwards equals? North pole, south pole, ying yang, hot cold, etc etc etc.

No dom if no sub. No sub if no dom. That makes it equal. The only time things may not be equal between people is with comparable qualities: intelligence, common sense, passion, creativity, altruism, humor, sensitivity, awareness, wisdom, experience, etc etc etc.

You may be the superiour person but still chose to follow someones lead. If that leader does not address your qualities that does not make him/her your superiour as a person but only as a ''preconsented'' authority that ''YOU'' accept.

It is what both of you want it to be.

Second set? It still is what both of you want it to be. Just remember to have some fun along the way. RL.

(in reply to Othie)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 6:44:17 AM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		I personally prefer RACK as being more descriptive of what many of us do.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: just a few newbie questions - 4/11/2008 6:46:22 AM   
Gemini1766


Posts: 991
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55

I personally prefer RACK as being more descriptive of what many of us do.
MasterWilliam, would you mind explaining the RACK reference for me, please. I'm learning all the time and when I see something that boggles my mind, I ask.

Thanks in advance,
Gem


_____________________________

"Strangers do not owe strangers anything, beyond an obeisance to the laws mutual conduct as dictated by the land in which they live. Anything else is negotiable." puella

"TwistedKinkerBell's online male companion of a nearly intimate nature."

(in reply to MasterWilliam55)
Profile   Post #: 20
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