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Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 9:01:39 AM

MladyHathor

Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

I have gathered together a room full of submissives, slaves and bottoms. I am sitting in the corner as the apt student. First of all, I have gagged all the Dominants and sent them to the gallery-- as I don't want to hear they are, they aren't it is, it isn't, real or non-real--I don't care, I want to learn---

In the last many weeks I have attempted to define for Me what I needed in this life to finish My life---ok ok I know the standard, well its whatever you and your xxx agree upon---ok that's a given--let's now get to the real leasson here FOR ME--One has to start somewhere with some kind of handle---with that handle comes a persons self decisions, self perceptions, self acceptances, self acknowledgements of what that title implies.

What I want to hear from the submissives, slaves, bottoms is how did YOU decide what you were ( and don't say Master, Mistress told Me---that's crap because with that YOU had to accept what that meant, the connotations, the rules, the very core of your being had to say-- yes-- somewhere, and you became it).

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)
What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?
How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?
What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?
What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

note: I want to learn from you, I don't want flaming, I hope, Iwant to understand how you came to be, I don't care if its right, wrong, by the book or even makes sense to Me or anyone---I want to understand--

Notebook open and pencil ready and thank you.

< Message edited by MladyHathor -- 4/12/2008 9:03:06 AM >

_____________________________

The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

Post #: 1

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 9:33:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor
How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you?

Time and experience. To me it means I am oriented towards certain relationship dynamics as a fulfilling relationship.

quote:

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

Nothing. Personal relationship orientations are meaningless unless I am IN a personal relationship with them and are not social status.

quote:

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

No more or less than it would anyone's orientation.

quote:

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

Nothing. I have my preference, another has theirs.

quote:

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

We're all an "other"

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 2

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 9:36:31 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

What I want to hear from the submissives, slaves, bottoms is how did YOU decide what you were ( and don't say Master, Mistress told Me---that's crap because with that YOU had to accept what that meant, the connotations, the rules, the very core of your being had to say-- yes-- somewhere, and you became it).

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

I did not decide that I would be a slave. It wasn't a matter of deciding I want to be this and then becoming that. It was a matter of recognizing that the way I naturally reacted to someone that I am in an intimate relationship is to transfer authority to them. It was a matter of recognizing that my behavior had a term that others already used. In recognizing that, I was then able to see that I was picking the wrong people as a partner.

To be a slave means that he has absolute authority within our relationship. Any authority that I have has been delegated back to me by him. I am also a bottom because I enjoy SM. That was a matter of self -discovery; someone hurt me during sex and I was turned on. It was yummy. Some things that I experience now as a bottom I enjoy and get off on and then there are other things I endure because I am his slave. The two co-exist quite nicely. Whether I am actually a submissive person is something that I question, but I am submissive to him and it doesn't really matter whether it extends beyond that or not.

The fact that I am his slave and bottom means very little in my interactions with other dominants other than I treat them in the way that he expects me to. I treat them no differently than any other person that I interact with whether that person identifies as being submissive or has no knowledge of this life.

I do know that being his slave has helped me improve my skills at remaining calm and centered even while others are not. It is rare for me to react emotionally to things; I much prefer to react based on logic than emotion. As his slave, I have been required to improve on certain skills.

Your last two bullets I do not really understand what you are asking, so I cannot address.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 3

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 9:43:06 AM

Bound2One

Posts: 614
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

I started out exploring BDSM knowing that I was a submissive. My natural demeanor is that of serving and making others happy in my 'vanilla' life, so knowing that I was a submissive was an easy conclusion. Coming to understand that I am a slave at heart was a longer process. It came from reading other's experiences and realizing that I identified with those who were slaves. I know this definition won't fit everyone else's, but to me being a slave is about the willingness and desire to turn myself over fully to the one who would be my master. I didn't want any control within the relationship - certainly I wished my master to listen to me, to respect and care for me, but I didn't want to make any of the decisions. I wished to be owned, which felt to me like the deepest connection I could have with a master. So ... when I found my One who became my Master, I found that all of these desires were falling into place and becoming reality. We are still on the path to my giving him full control. As we learn one another and grow together, that becomes more and more real for us. I see becoming his slave as a journey, and in allowing me to process and accept the control which I give him is in his hands, it feels permanent each step of the way. I don't know if I expressed that well, but I hope it came across.

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

You mean what does my identifying as a slave mean in my interactions with Dominants? I knew that to me being a slave was an all-encompassing feeling, and would hold huge depths of emotions for me. I need that sort of connection with a Dominant - deep, loving, caring, something I could rely on fully. So ... when speaking with Dominants I knew I would not match well with those who were looking for play partners, for part-time, or for who were wary of long-term relationships. It was rather a waste of my time to chat with those types (except as friends) because we'd never be a good couple. I needed someone with experience, someone who understood the sort of master I was searching for, someone who I could feel comfortable with placing my soul into his hands. A high intelligence as well as a high emotional intellligence was vital to me.

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

I'm not sure I understand this question. How does being a slave drive my interaction with Master? I know that I am constantly growing to both please him as well as to become a more fulfilled person overall which will also please him.

With the vanilla world - honestly, I've become more at ease with the fact that I like to serve and make others happy. In the past I've struggled with it a bit, because though I like to give and give, when I'm not getting it back, it can feel like I'm being used. I'm thinking of family things here mostly - being the mom and the 'go-to' person for everything can be draining. But in realizing that rather than receiving applause because the kitchen floor is cleaned for the umpteenth time this week ... that in receiving the internal satisfaction knowing a chore is done that needed to be done - that makes a difference in my outlook and attitude. It took understanding my nature to be able to accept that there is satisfaction in helping others. I think I had a 'woe is me' attitude for awhile in my life, but that's turned around, and I think that's due to my getting in touch with my true nature.

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

The difference between sub/slave/bottom? Good Lord, please, YMMV. No flames, please! lol I'm so wary of answering this question in public, but please remember that this is how *I* alone view it. OK, disclaimers over. lol To me, a bottom is someone who is not into the emotional submission which I crave. I view it more as focused on the physical aspects of D/s, not the emotional side of it. The difference for me between a submissive and slave is more difficult to pinpoint. I think it's the emotional submission also - and the giving over of complete control. It's a fine line, and not a tangible one. The best I can say, which doesn't say much at all, is that I identify strongly with the word 'slave'. It speaks to me. It speaks of ownership. It turns me on and makes me want to fall to my knees and serve and be used. The word 'submissive' doesn't do the same thing for me.

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

I am truly a 'to each his/her own' kinda gal. Everyone has their own needs, desires and definitions. The most important thing I've learned in this past year and a half that I've been exploring is that it is such a personal thing. No one is better, deeper, 'more' or 'less' than anyone else because of how they identify. I wanted to learn from all, to be open to everyone's POVs because they all have something to contribute. And finally, the most important thing to me was to find my One, because with that person, I would find my completion and he and I would grow together. That's always been more important to me than judging others and how they identify. (I can hear the groans already - lol - I know there are those who hate hearing things like how couples complete one another, but I do believe that in finding my Master I can now live the needs and desires I have within me as a slave. Without him, while I am a slave, I am a slave without a master, which is not fulfilling in the least.)

Lastly, thank you for asking these questions. I find that thinking about these things occasionally keeps me focused.

< Message edited by Bound2One -- 4/12/2008 9:45:39 AM >

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 4

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 9:54:26 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

I didn't really decide anything. It was more finding out what I already was.

quote:

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

Dominants in general? Not all that much. I'm as respectful with them as I am with their subs and slaves. I'll get something for them if they ask nicely but I'll also get something for a slave or sub if they ask nicely.

quote:

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

Not really. I am who I am, I'm comfortable giving instructions and orders in situations where I need to do so to do my job. Obviously, it affects my interactions with Valyraen

.

quote:

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

I like to serve, they don't. Same way I don't like licorice and Valyraen does.

quote:

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

What others? "Vanilla" folk? They don't bother me at all, most my close friends are "vanillas" and don't have a problem with me or what we do. I may censor myself around those I don't know, the same way I don't talk politics.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 5

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 9:58:16 AM

WestBayLoner

Posts: 16
Joined: 4/7/2008
Status: offline

With apologies beforehand for being a total newby to all of this

, I can at least tell you where I'm at now:

1. As soon as I found out about the lifestyle at around age fourteen ( ah, internet, where would I be without you? ), I was strongly drawn to it. However, being young ( considerably younger than legal age when I first heard of it ), unattractive and a bit of a social recluse, I kept to being a silent online observer of the BDSM community.
I became sexually active around age seventeen, but as it mostly consisted of bad dates and one-evening stands, I was very hesitant to pursue anything kinky. I was also in the closet, which complicated matters further.
I think the main reason I never pursued it until recently is because while I can emotionally detach myself from vanilla sex, I find it extremely hard to do the same as a submissive. My sub side is based in emotions rather than my lust: the acts themselves matter little, the relationship matters a lot. With this in mind, the easy-come easy-go world of hook-ups really wasn't the place I wanted to explore this side of myself.
This was – bar coming out of the closet a few months ago – the current state of affairs until I ran across my current dom on a vanilla site. We met in a vanilla context, but after chatting I revealed my sub side, and he was already a dominant, and, well... we're figuring out what happens next now. I'm hoping for the best.

While I'm new at this, I know for sure that being a submissive of some description is the way to go for me. I don't know what I am, whether it be a slave, "son" or sub, but I know that the power exchange element bring an intensity that's removed any interest in a vanilla relationship. It's like my thoughts, feelings and sex drive are in color for the first time rather than black and white. Even in the worst case scenario where it doesn't work and my dom loses interest in me, I'll only be looking for this kind of relationship again.

2. I try to be respectful to everyone, but unless I'm in a relationship or my dom wants me to, I treat dominants no differently than anyone else. It's actually quite fun to chat candidly with a dominant without the whole dom/sub thing coming into play as it would inside a relationship.

3. It doesn't really change anything except internal feelings. I'm not submissive in everyday life – the world is all too willing to tell you what to think and do! Couples, polymorous groups etc. I'd treat the same as dominants I not in a relationship with. Fun to chat, but I'm not the world's sub, if you see what I mean.

4. People tend to be a little more relaxed about sex, for one thing! Honestly, I haven't explored enough to say, other than a little more tolerance and open-mindedness.

5. If you mean people in the vanilla world, nothing much, other than my not revealing my kinky side. Sometimes I'm a little worried about what people will think if they find out, but not too much – I live in a very liberal city.

I hope some of this helps.

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 6

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 10:37:04 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Well I knew I was a bottom because I want to be the one tied up, not the one who does the tying.

Sub vs slave? Have major problems with the word slave and hugely negative connotations.

Sub? I'm a people pleaser, especially when it comes to the men in my life. Also I've always wanted a strong man I can lean on in times of trouble, not a man who expects me to carry everything by myself and who feels put upon when asked for help.

Vanilla vs D/s? D/s types discuss who controls what, vanilla types don't tend to talk about it and cannot easily come to an agreement without resentment of who handles what and when.

Reaction to D types? I don't submit unless I've accepted them as my dominant. I'm submissive to one, not all.

I'm not sure what you mean by interacting with dominants except that I wanted to be with one, and screened out a lot of dominants who I knew that I wouldn't get along with. I was looking for a high level of compatibility and wasn't willing to settle for less. As far as interacting with The Man, if there are disagreements we discuss it. I need to feel heard and that he understands my concerns. I don't do well with someone who ignores what bothers me and doesn't want to hear that I'm upset. If I see a downside to an action, I need to know he's aware of it and has plans to avoid that or fix it immediately. I don't accept him refusing to see reality because he wants something and sticks his fingers in his ears when shown there's a problem. One of the good things about him being an engineer, is that his basic orientation is to think things out, anticipate unavoidable problems, and solve those problems at the same time. I feel safe with him because of this and feeling secure was essential to me accepting him.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to WestBayLoner)

Post #: 7

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 10:41:08 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Vanilla vs D/s? D/s types discuss who controls what, vanilla types don't tend to talk about it and cannot easily come to an agreement without resentment of who handles what and when.

Boy I'm glad I wasn't eating at the point I read this so I wouldn't have to worry about throwing up at this piece of crap.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 8

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 10:50:58 AM

mbes

Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

I didn't decide to be what I am. After years of false starts and bad paths, I found an effective way to express what I have always been. As for what that is, exactly, I couldn't even say, but that doesn't matter because we've found a way to interact that satisfies us both. That way involves me giving him whatever authority he chooses to exercise at any given time.
It doesn't mean a thing in my interaction with "Dominants" as a group. It only affects my interaction with my partner.
In the vanilla world, and with other d's and s's, they are simply people. Nobody else has personal authority over me. In my interaction with him, I do my best to obey (I'm far from perfect, and we both know it).
I don't understand the next question?
My reaction to "others" is "hello, nice to meet you."
Now back to read the other responses, I love this post. Thanks!

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 9

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 10:52:32 AM

MladyHathor

Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

wow, all great teaching responses, I will be pondering a long time---kyra My last two bullets mean this, I hope it helps:

When you blend what you do for him in this life and what you do in the vanilla world, what things do you feel denote that you are what you are? Like, when we go out to dinner, he orders or when we are out in public we walk behind ( there are some relationships like that, I think)

The last one is how do you react to someone who's definition is different than yours, to someone who may call themselves a slave but hmm does something you would never dream of doing to Him--( like talking back, or doing something with out asking)---

_____________________________

The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 10

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 10:56:34 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor
When you blend what you do for him in this life and what you do in the vanilla world, what things do you feel denote that you are what you are? Like, when we go out to dinner, he orders or when we are out in public we walk behind ( there are some relationships like that, I think)

It's not what we do, it's just who we are. Specific outward expressions are just a matter of preference.

quote:

The last one is how do you react to someone who's definition is different than yours, to someone who may call themselves a slave but hmm does something you would never dream of doing to Him--( like talking back, or doing something with out asking)---

Well someone DOING something is irrelevant- a slave can do whatever they want as long as they have permission. If someone judged someone not to be a slave just because their master gives permission for things their own master does not then they are pretty narrow minded.

No matter what though, I support them making their judgements. It would really depend on the context in which we were sharing definitions- here in a discussion forum, the point is to challenge and broaden and bring up new ideas. At a luncheon, I'd much more be likely to just change the subject to my beautiful nephews.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 11

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 11:02:50 AM

lalbobbilynn

Posts: 483
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

1) Outside of my natural predilection to serve and assist others, i suppose the depth of my submissive-ness was know at the tail end of my seventeen yr marriage. The demise of that union made me do some extreme soul searching, for lack of a better term. i could pontificate on this for days, but i will spare You all the same!!

2) Me being submissive means nothing with regard to Dominants on a whole.

3) A large portion of what little i have learned and what i am learning on a daily basis carries over into my vanilla world. An example would be: think prior to opening my pie hole!

4) i see no marked difference in the two worlds. IMHO there is an Alpha/Beta realm to every aspect of the world. Learn how to Tango, cause You will have a few go-rounds on the dance floor with quite an array of partners!!!

5) My reaction to one of the "others" is no different then if i were to meet them in the library, coffee shop, or at a museum. i address a/All folks as Sir/Ma'am; is a Southern thing, NOT a BDSM thing! Hell i refer to my children as such (Sir/Ma'am)! A display of respect b/c You are my fellow human being does not mean i like You, nor agree with You. i will attempt to respect You no matter Your self imposed title, nor the one society may hang around Your neck.

b.~

Opppps forget to add Your last 2 ??'s

6) What makes me submissive to Him? Being totally open; good, bad or otherwise.

7) When anothers opinion differs, i attempt to be open and at least listen. At the very least i have gained knowledge.
b.~

< Message edited by lalbobbilynn -- 4/12/2008 11:11:50 AM >

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 12

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 11:07:30 AM

mbes

Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

wow, all great teaching responses, I will be pondering a long time---kyra My last two bullets mean this, I hope it helps:

When you blend what you do for him in this life and what you do in the vanilla world, what things do you feel denote that you are what you are? Like, when we go out to dinner, he orders or when we are out in public we walk behind ( there are some relationships like that, I think)

The last one is how do you react to someone who's definition is different than yours, to someone who may call themselves a slave but hmm does something you would never dream of doing to Him--( like talking back, or doing something with out asking)---

Ah, this makes things clearer.
Doing as he asks is the only thing that denotes what we are. That applies wherever we are, and is as easy to do in public as at home. Thank goodness he doesn't care to fondle my breasts at the mall! Ok, he probably does want to, but he has a sense of decorum that doesn't allow for that.

While I was trying out different styles to find what worked for me, it threw me off to see others whose definitions were vastly different from my own. Now that I'm more settled, it doesn't matter. I'll admit that sometimes I just shake my head privately, but really, it doesn't affect me, so long as they aren't trying to define me as well as themselves.

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 13

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 11:39:43 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Until recently I always got involved with men who were physically and/or emotionally abusive. Hindsight tells me that I was probably seeking S&M but didn’t know it then. I gave up for a very long time. I was celibate for almost 15 years. By the time I was ready to rejoin the ‘dating’ world the internet was available. I thought I was submissive but was really a masochistic bottom.
I don’t know if this makes sense, but I decided to be submissive because there were aspects of bottoming that made me feel submissive and I liked that.
Submission has always been tougher for me than is masochism, yet I get the greatest joy in submitting and feel good about each new growth step I have managed along the way. It means that I am most satisfied and content to give up authority in my intimate relationships.

The only time anyone’s dominance is meaningful to me is when I have agreed to submit to them. In general, I show no special deference to those with the title because I don’t know them. I enjoy friendships with other submissives because I can share things with them that I can’t with other friends.

My interactions with ‘my’ dominants are driven by who has the authority and I have learned acceptance. The best way I can describe that is when one of them has an expectation or demand that I had not considered before agreeing to do their will. My gut reaction is ‘I signed on for this??’
And then I obey because it is what I said I will do. Most of my struggles with acceptance have been internal. I discuss it with them sometimes after I have worked it out myself; as neither one of them have complained I believe they are okay with letting me be my own guiding force to get where I want to be.
I don’t think that my interactions in the ‘vanilla’ world are affected unless you count the fact I am a happier person because of my D/s relationships.

I think most all of us are looking for happiness and a fulfilling relationship. The only difference is the ‘what’ and the ‘how’ we find it.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 14

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 11:43:05 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

wow, all great teaching responses, I will be pondering a long time---kyra My last two bullets mean this, I hope it helps:

When you blend what you do for him in this life and what you do in the vanilla world, what things do you feel denote that you are what you are? Like, when we go out to dinner, he orders or when we are out in public we walk behind ( there are some relationships like that, I think)

I don't think about it really. We just do what we do. I suppose there are things that could tip someone off, but that would probably the "Sir" thing and that I will obey him and not others.

quote:

The last one is how do you react to someone who's definition is different than yours, to someone who may call themselves a slave but hmm does something you would never dream of doing to Him--( like talking back, or doing something with out asking)---

Don't think much of it. They do things their way and we do things our way.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 15

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 12:01:54 PM

abeke

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/15/2008
Status: offline

It's been nearly 18 years since I was introduced to this lifestyle. In the past, I have identified as a slave, as a submissive, as a bottom never putting any thought behind why I identified as any of them, now I do not identify as anything expect a submissive person, (submissive being used as an adjective not a noun.) The sub vs. slave debate, is quite fustrating for me and I have not defined in my own mind the difference. It just seems like a waste of my time to define, if I am one or the other. If another, sees me as a more of a submissive than a slave, or more of a slave than a submissive, well that's okay, I just personally see no need to identify as either simply because even if I did, their definition of a slave or submissive would probably not be the same as mine.

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 16

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 12:29:29 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor
When you blend what you do for him in this life and what you do in the vanilla world, what things do you feel denote that you are what you are? Like, when we go out to dinner, he orders or when we are out in public we walk behind ( there are some relationships like that, I think)

Everything I do denotes what I am to him. The thing is that most people will have no clue because the behavior looks the same. What marks the diffierence is pretty much invisible to the rest of the world. As an example, we had left over cupcakes at work yesterday and my boss told the employees to take them home for our families. Alandra and I have an instruction that we are not allowed to buy junk food without permission. Since I didn't buy them, I wasn't sure if I needed permission, so I called him to ask.

The decision making process was invisible to my boss and my behavior looked just like everyone else in the office.

quote:

The last one is how do you react to someone who's definition is different than yours, to someone who may call themselves a slave but hmm does something you would never dream of doing to Him--( like talking back, or doing something with out asking)---

It really depends on who they are and the context in which the difference is discovered. There is no one way, but the reaction will be appropriate for the interaction and will meet his expectations of how I should behave.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 17

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 1:17:11 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

I started at the bottom because I was looking for someone who would take my fantasy and turn it into a reality for no reason other than the idea was HOT. My fantasy turned out to be nothing compared to the reality and it took almost no time at all to find out how much more there was to be found in BDSM than what I had, at first, supposed. Once I nibbled, I couldn't help but gorge because it was the most powerful and intense experience for me. It was harsh but well within the comfort zone of my lived life. From that first step, I just grew up and started to shed the parts of myself that didn't appeal even to me. One thing led to another and I found myself enslaved when I was sure such a thing could never happen because the word 'slave' itself was just vile to me with all its historical connotations.

For me, being a slave just means that I don't have the ability to leave as "Celeste" because to do so leaves too much of myself behind. The price to leave is too high and the benefits are non-existant.

quote:

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

I have a huge double standard and I freely admit it. (Might even be a flaw, but not one I care to explore.) Being fairly empathic, I can usually tell whether or not someone is open to genial teasing or whether it is more appropriate to maintain a higher protocol with them and I will act accordingly. That doesn't mean I will give someone the benefit of a self-proclaimed title, but Sir or Ma'am will come easily to my lips and I have no problem affording someone extra courtsey if I can feel their dominance for myself. Rather like being on 'company' behavior rather than just acting goofy or dorky around family members.

quote:

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

It's actually pretty much the same. If I can feel the power, I afford them a bit 'extra'. Most of my friends tend to be submissives or slaves. I just feel most comfortable in an environment where I'm able to let down my hair and not worry about having reactions to 'D' types. I consider myself fairly confident, but for some reason, I can still get a bit flustered and tongue-tied around powerful dominants. The thing is, they have to be more powerful than me for that to happen, and honestly, I don't run into that very often but, you know, on occasion.

quote:

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

Inspiration to follow, weapons of ass destruction and

. All three, in place, is what marks the difference for me. I can be inspired to follow someone vanilla, but they're not going to have that edge of danger to them which turns me on and the weapons of ass destruction that feeds my masochistic self.

quote:

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

I know you clarified this question in a later post, but I don't remember what you said. I'll have to come back and edit after I find it.

:: on edit:: Oh yeah. Well, basically if someone has a difference of opinion, that's cool. I don't have to embrace it or live in their universe nor do they have to live in mine so it's fine for them to be wrong.

Seriously though, they'd only be wrong if they tried to force me to embrace their way instead of allowing the the One True Way is actually what is true for each of us as individuals and it's not some collective universal truth. Hell, even the Goreans don't have a universal truth and that world is much more narrowly defined than M/s, D/s, Leather etc.

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 4/12/2008 1:21:39 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 18

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 1:46:19 PM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

i didn't so much decide to become a sub/slave, as after 10 years of celibacy, when making a profile on a vanilla site, i listed as one of the wanted dynamics of a desired relationship that i did not want to be in charge, but have a say in decisions. I had a dom email me and ask if I wanted submission, and i became so aroused that i could hardly stand still. Total surprise. But the backstory is that the two major relationships that i had has was with policemen, and my fantasys were of dominaring men. Obviously, i had submission in my personality, I just didn't know that it could be a viable relationship alternative, or even that there were actual people living like this. God bless the internet!!!!!!

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

i tend to be somewhat passive until i know how they like to be approached. for example , my Sir enjoys me being comfortable enough to be cheeky with him - within reason. I am respectful to doms, and tend to have more fun with their subs. some of the subs in this lifestyle are just delightful, and interesting and lots of fun.

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

i have noticed that i react to the dominant personalitys in my work place much as i react to my Sir. They request something and i tend to act as i would at home - making it a priority.

/quote]

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 19

RE: Class is in Session - 4/12/2008 2:02:53 PM

metalmiss

Posts: 341
Joined: 5/4/2005
From: Croydon, UK
Status: offline

How did you decide to be a sub, slave, bottom--what does that mean to you? ( and be specific, even if it means slaves wash clothes and subs don't...)

When i look back submissive has been a large factor in the "who i am" all of my life that i can remember..
i consider my childhood to have been a lucky one, happy, abuse-free with one younger brother and two vanilla parents who have stuck together through 30 years, something which i have seen is decidedly rare these days unfortunately. Slowly over time things (emotions, thoughts, urges) came together and i began to question things.
Eventually i figured that if i was feeling this way then there had to be other people out there who felt the same.. So i came online and went looking for them.. i found a D/s chatroom on AOL and went about making friends and asking questions.. i was 16 when this all happened, it took me 18 months of talking before i was comfortable enough with everything to meet anybody in real life.. but i didn't get sucked into the 'cyber' thing either..
In the beginning the label i used was submissive, i felt i didnt have the life experience or sufficient knowledge of myself in that sense to claim that i was a slave.
As a side note: In my opinion the difference between a submissive and a slave is that a submissive reserves the right to negotiate, a slave gives all that she is in all ways.
It wasn't until i met my Master almost 6 months ago that i felt comfortable enough in myself to call myself a slave, even though i have known for a long time that with me it cut deeper than my impression of submissive.

To answer the second part of Your question here - my submission is everything to me.. it is everything i do, my thoughts, my whole life..
It consumes me in more ways and on more levels than i could find the words to describe. Which is a good thing here, as that is something that my Master expects..

What does that mean in your interactions with Dominants?

As i am an Owned girl, my first thought was that this question is not something which is applicable to me. But when i thought about it, it became apparent that i was wrong in thinking this, as i still communicate with other Dominants in real life and online every day of my life.
my submission has always led me to have a slightly subdued, shy, friendly attitude with everybody in my life, i am often polite to the point of being painfully so..
Where Dominants are concerned the same has always applied since i began interacting with them.. Possibly even more so infact. Something which has caused me alot of hassle and heartache over the years and it has taken me a long time to learn to put my foot down and say exactly what i am thinking whether it would appear to be "submissive" of me or not.

How does that drive your interactions? In your relationship? With the vanilla world? With other D's or s's?

In my relationship, my interactions with my Master are very submissive given the nature of our dynamic and the intensity with which we live it..
At events and in public it is something that i constantly monitor myself about, knowing that the slightest slip would displease Him.. But this isn't difficult for me as it is something which comes very naturally.
At home, in private, things are a little more relaxed.. there is room for banter and fun.. But there is always a line not to be crossed and my behaviour in interacting with Him never strays to anything beyond submissive.

"Vanilla" life.. i don't really have a "vanilla life" at the moment, due to a lack of work, which is where, with me, my vanilla life begins and ends.. If it could be called that as my submission is not something i switch on or off when it suits.
My submissive nature and tendancies have been noticed in a work environment on several occasions in the past, to the point that several people whom i have worked with have picked up on it and commented.
Beyond a work environment, i don't actually have what others would consider to be a "vanilla" life. Even the handful of "vanilla" friends i have and my family are very much aware of my interests & lifestyle choice, it is something i am very open about, as i see no reason to hide it.. It often takes an active role in conversation and they are all accepting of who & what i am. This makes life easier, my submissive part comes across really strongly in who i am and how i act.. Its so much more relaxed when i don't feel i have to pretend.. In my opinion, if they couldn't accept such a large part of what makes me, then they have no place in my life.

Being Owned effects my communication with Dominants to a great degree.. i often request that my Master gives His approval of emails that i send even to Dominant friends as i am constantly aware of the fact that my attitude in talking with a Dominant can easily be taken as a reflection upon Him as my Master.
When it comes to my interactions with other submissive's or slave's my communications are more relaxed in the sense that i feel i can speak to them on an equal level, there is less in the way of openly verbalised respect.. though it is always there, as is the a strong flavour of "submissive" in the mix.

On another note i could also say that my submissive nature has a big factor in my need to communicate, share, listen, learn and understand. It is what has me here reading this board and replying to posts. It is what drives me to keep my profiles active despite all the junk mail i recieve, because on the odd occasion that i encounter one of the rare individuals whom i can enjoy these things with, i find my submissive self pleased and fulfilled in ways i can't even begin to describe.

What in your mind, in the combination of this world and vanilla, marks the difference?

To me, the difference is simply a matter of preference.. Sure alot of the "vanilla's" i have met have been repressed to say the least.. But not all of them.
For most of it, where the repressed lot are concerned the difference comes down to a matter of honesty with myself and in my interaction with the world around me.
But the fact is its just preference.. Maybe a vanilla person gets their kicks from DIY.. or for the more adventurous.. perhaps extreme sports. Physically i get my kicks from serving, from making Him happy, from seeing Him content because i have served Him well, not to mention that whole adrenaline rush thingy when He takes His belt off..

What is your reaction to someone who is one of the "others"?

The "others"..
Well my reaction is a curious one.. If they don't share my interests.. If their inspiration takes a different direction.. Then there is always room to learn about something new, even if it doesn't tickle my strawberries.
A different kind of dynamic.. Well its always interesting to find out "how does it work for you?" With me its very much a case of each to their own. i am always interested to hear other points of view.. If it's not something i agree with then fair enough, if we were all carbon copies.. If we all had the same way of living our lives the world would be a terribly boring place.

_____________________________

"The longing to serve, to submit, to abandon oneself sexually, emotionally, and physically makes one a slave either to a Man, a Woman or to God. Submission to that passion is divine degradation." - Dorothy C. Hayden

Owned by RavenMuse

(in reply to MladyHathor)

Post #: 20

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