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RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 6:25:24 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

And what is wrong with Italy? There are solid examples of socialised economies doing fairly well, but this is one that seems terribly bogged down.


Historic corruption and an election system that encourages disunity in a country that as a nation state, is younger than the USA. Every Italian knows that until they reform the electoral system, nothing is going to change. The problem is that its not in the interest of the current politicians to reform the political system. One of the reasons for Italians's enthusiasm for the EU is that the management of the currency is taken out of the hands of their politicians and ever more important decisions are taken in Brussels. North Europeans are wanting to hold on to national power for the opposite reasons ordinary Italians want to get rid of theirs.

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Profile   Post #: 241
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 6:35:03 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Real_Trouble I respect your posts, as I do those of MmeGigs, but, since you claim high standards and are going to graduate school soon, please learn to distinguish between the correct usage of  "less" and "fewer" tut tut lol
Especially since I assume your subject may well be economics.

Do you know of a long term prediction made by any economist that turned out to be anywhere near accurate?
Only arskin'

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 4/17/2008 6:37:43 AM >

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 242
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 6:52:26 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Who will rid me of these turbulent proles?
 
These greedy grubby proles
They're making me ill
All they care about is their next drink
Oh dear God save us from these bloody proles
All they care about is their next drink
Can't somebody save us from these bloody proles
All they know about are material things

These people have no notion of culture
They're a rising tide of barbarism
Dear God save us from these bloody proles
All they care about are their wages
Oh who will save us from these bloody proles
All they know about are material things

Oh dear God save us from these bloody proles
All they care about are their wages
Oh who will save us from these bloody proles
All they know about are material things

I know they envy me
The wine in my cellar, the food in the fridge
My salary

McCarthy

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Profile   Post #: 243
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 7:07:13 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Real_Trouble I respect your posts, as I do those of MmeGigs, but, since you claim high standards and are going to graduate school soon, please learn to distinguish between the correct usage of  "less" and "fewer" tut tut lol
Especially since I assume your subject may well be economics.

Do you know of a long term prediction made by any economist that turned out to be anywhere near accurate?
Only arskin'


You know what they say seeks, put two economists in a room and you'll get three opinions.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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Profile   Post #: 244
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 7:16:15 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Who will rid me of these turbulent proles?
 
These greedy grubby proles
They're making me ill
All they care about is their next drink
Oh dear God save us from these bloody proles
All they care about is their next drink
Can't somebody save us from these bloody proles
All they know about are material things

These people have no notion of culture
They're a rising tide of barbarism
Dear God save us from these bloody proles
All they care about are their wages
Oh who will save us from these bloody proles
All they know about are material things

Oh dear God save us from these bloody proles
All they care about are their wages
Oh who will save us from these bloody proles
All they know about are material things

I know they envy me
The wine in my cellar, the food in the fridge
My salary

McCarthy


kitt, you are making me hot ! Wanna sip some 'paigne, soak in the hottub and watch "Reds" ? A modest bubbly, of course, considering the subject matter...


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 245
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 7:20:23 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

kitt, you are making me hot ! Wanna sip some 'paigne, soak in the hottub and watch "Reds" ? A modest bubbly, of course, considering the subject matter...



As long as we can play 'L'Internationale' in the background after watching 'Reds', I'm positively melting at the idea  .

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Profile   Post #: 246
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 9:13:51 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

kitt, you are making me hot ! Wanna sip some 'paigne, soak in the hottub and watch "Reds" ? A modest bubbly, of course, considering the subject matter...



As long as we can play 'L'Internationale' in the background after watching 'Reds', I'm positively melting at the idea  .


Sounds lovely. We can also nibble strawberries with creme fraiche and then spank each other for being so decadent. A perfect evening, non ?


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 247
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 9:17:08 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I couldn't lay a finger on you, cjan, let alone a slap  .

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Profile   Post #: 248
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 9:19:31 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Oh, come on, I'm not that bad. You could wear opera gloves.

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 9:26:15 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		No no no, snot what I meant. You forget that I'm not much more than a worthless submissive, whose only role in life is to take the blows that big, strong, Hulkish men are willing to dish out to her.

As you are one of these men, I couldn't possibly do what you'd want me to. Even if you begged for it ;-p .

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Profile   Post #: 250
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 9:42:45 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		kitt, being a Switch, I tend to dislike labels and preconceived roles and such. However, if you wanna be a tightass li'l sub... whatever floats your soap, dear. ;)

I apologize to the OP and all concerned for this li'l hijacking. I can only justify my horny self by noting that class struggle and political circle jerks always give me a major Woodrow. Why else participate in such futility ?

We now return you to your regular programming...


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 251
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 10:29:20 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I've never been called a futility before... should I come from the humiliation of it, Sir  ?

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Profile   Post #: 252
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 11:07:39 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Sorry, subbie froggie, due to your insolence, you're now under orgasm restrictions until further notice , or until I receive your nakies in the mail, whichever , ummm, comes first .

< Message edited by cjan -- 4/17/2008 11:08:51 AM >

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 253
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/17/2008 5:54:32 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Real_Trouble I respect your posts, as I do those of MmeGigs, but, since you claim high standards and are going to graduate school soon, please learn to distinguish between the correct usage of  "less" and "fewer" tut tut lol
Especially since I assume your subject may well be economics.

Do you know of a long term prediction made by any economist that turned out to be anywhere near accurate?
Only arskin'


Fuck that.

If you expect me to have perfect grammar when I am drunk off my ass and working on about two hours of sleep, you are going to be sorely disappointed.  I make no apologies for my less than spectacular mental state, nor do I claim to always have perfect grammar.  I am not now, and never will be an editor; my high standards are in thought, and as long as an individual is reasonably coherent, I will not judge their grammar.  Nor will I judge you for your inability to punctuate correctly, for instance.

I know of many long-term predictions by economists that have turned out to be accurate (for instance, Robert Shiller has been on the ball repeatedly of late); the problem is that you have a hard time determining which ones will be accurate before events actually unfold, and likewise, there is always the possibility that accurate predictions are a matter of luck rather than any degree of skill.

Trust me when I say I am someone who is excessively skeptical about most predictions.  There are times when looking at past trends or making some future projections can provide useful ballpark estimates for thinking about the future, but people frequently ascribe far too strong a degree of coherence and confidence to these sorts of things when, in reality, they are educated wild-ass guesses.

Also, you are wrong, I am not an economist and I have no designs upon becoming one.  I find the field fascinating, but largely for the failures.  It is amazing that something with so much credibility has been so painfully inaccurate so consistently.


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Send lawyers, guns, and money.

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Profile   Post #: 254
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/18/2008 4:37:20 AM   
QuietlySeeking


Posts: 297
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble

Also, you are wrong, I am not an economist and I have no designs upon becoming one.  I find the field fascinating, but largely for the failures.  It is amazing that something with so much credibility has been so painfully inaccurate so consistently.



Much like meteorologists, only without the easy-to-read colorful charts!

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 255
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/18/2008 4:54:01 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		I blame Chaos Theory !
Real_Trouble commenting on economists' predictions says
quote:

I know of many long-term predictions by economists that have turned out to be accurate (for instance, Robert Shiller has been on the ball repeatedly of late); the problem is that you have a hard time determining which ones will be accurate before events actually unfold, and likewise, there is always the possibility that accurate predictions are a matter of luck rather than any degree of skill.
The problem there is that if enough economists make enough predictions one of them may well turn out to be right....sooner or later.

You criticise my punctuation, which I thought was quite reasonable, but I admit I do have trouble with my semi colon. Other than that I am in reasonable health. 

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Profile   Post #: 256
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/18/2008 5:56:56 AM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

MmeGigs even asserts that she has faith in the "market" to solve the problem when in fact it is that very "market" that is the root cause of the problem.
Most large corporations I suspect could easily restructure their pay scales to help alleviate the problem of the working poor, but they show no inclination to do so. That is why I believe the only solution is oppressive government economic control.



I agree businesses aren't going to restructure their pay scales voluntarily, and said as much.  I don't see where the oppressive govt economic control would come into it, though. 

quote:



So...where's the overall gain ?



If you're talking money, I don't think that there would be any overall gain.  I don't think that an overall gain is necessary - paying people a decent wage is something we ought to do just because it's the right thing to do.  I have no delusions that anyone in a position to do anything will be swayed by that. 

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Profile   Post #: 257
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/18/2008 5:58:38 AM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I blame Chaos Theory !
Real_Trouble commenting on economists' predictions says
quote:

I know of many long-term predictions by economists that have turned out to be accurate (for instance, Robert Shiller has been on the ball repeatedly of late); the problem is that you have a hard time determining which ones will be accurate before events actually unfold, and likewise, there is always the possibility that accurate predictions are a matter of luck rather than any degree of skill.
The problem there is that if enough economists make enough predictions one of them may well turn out to be right....sooner or later.

You criticise my punctuation, which I thought was quite reasonable, but I admit I do have trouble with my semi colon. Other than that I am in reasonable health. 



I do agree that the sheer volume of predictions makes them hard to judge from the field as a whole.  Note my comments about luck above, as well.

However, there are individual cases where people are predicting with accuracy significantly above that of random guessing, which is why I referenced Shiller.  He's now called both the tech and the housing bubble accurately.  The problem is how would you have known that beforehand, as well?

Even if you have accurate predictors, it can be very hard to find them!

Edit - You missed a period or two above.  I was just being sarcastic, however; I doubt anyone here edits their posts to any significant degree, so I tend to ignore all the minor stuff.


< Message edited by Real_Trouble -- 4/18/2008 5:59:32 AM >

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Send lawyers, guns, and money.

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Profile   Post #: 258
RE: The sting of poverty - 4/18/2008 6:59:52 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		Real_Trouble: I wasnt in the least offended by your criticism of me, I booted you, I expect the same back, hence my little joke.
Apart from basic errors, very rare lol, my major syntactical problem is, my sentences are too long. I just write it as it pops it my head.

Is not Mme_Gigs admitting defeat by not expecting any overall gain if major increases to minimum wages are implemented?
One applied solution in the UK is working tax credit where the exchequer actually tops up low income. Also we have child allowances that cost lots in total. Still the working poor exist.

The best solution in the UK is to be "sick", stress works well here and have lots of kids, then you really can get an income that is substantially above  the national average.
But is that "right" ?

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 259
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