RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety

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ShadeDiva -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/14/2005 10:09:09 PM)
quote: This is the only comment you made that I take issue with. Yes, the idea that Labradoodles, jackapoos or schnoodles are a marketable breed is funny. However, miniatures and toys are recognized by the kennel clubs and are a showable breed. The tiny toys and the teacups are not recognized widely. Let me start by saying WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I am SO glad you didn;t take my post in a negative sense. I was gritting my teeth the whole time and almost hit delte a few times LOL! THANK you for reading it in a positive mindset. About the quote I clipped up above though, allow me to clarify. The tiny toys and the teacups ARE worse. By that I mean genetically they have a LOT of complications that do affect their health very negatively. the larger sized toy poodles do remarkably well, I think they are one of the only toy breeds that do. But they as a breed suffer many of the same issues smaller dogs have as open fontaelles (where their skill has a hole due to not closing fully around the brain) that many breeders recite is an asset, that medically speaking obviously isn't. Case in point, the mini breed dog (I can;t remember the specific breed but I can dredge that up if needed) that had a pinecone fall on it's head and kill it due to scoring on the fontaelle. The bdogs that have difficulty in breathing, respiratory issues where when they have the slightest exertion they struggle for every breath. The nasal and eye and limb/spinal issues where reduction just isn't an asset. Some things medically just aren't okay. The dogs, being dogs don't know any different. They all have that same wonderful spark. They also do not handle pain and discomfort as we do. Whether that is a genetic leftover from the wild where to show weakness or injury could mean death, no one knows. But when a dog can wag it's tail and romp about after it's leg has been severed grinning and quiverring in typical doggie jpypusness, sure there is shock, but it's a testamont that they do handle pain and discomfort a bit differently than we do. But yeah, medically speaking, smaller has a cost. Poodles are an amazing breed though so I do think they show less issues with the reduction for the most part. But the teacups have a LOT of health issues. Vets tend to cringe when seeing those. But every breed has it's own issues. We tampered with them so much that well, they have genetic health issues that simply are par for the course. So that's what I meant. Not that they are horrid but that it most vets seem to find them to have a plethera of health issues that do impact their health and lifespan and comfort. Just because they are showable doesn't mean they are healthy on a genetic level. I don;t think the AKC disqualifies for bad hips that haven't been documented and I don't believe they are doing that level of testing. Don't get me started on neuticials. LOL. And mark my words, after a few more generations you will see labradoodles and bugapoos and all the others in a dog show one day. It doesn't take all that long (as in centuries) to create a breed after all. And all the breeds were created and tampered by us to begin with. I'm glad to see you are doing okay though. I was always hit hard by my animals death. And I was poor for a good part of their lives. The only thing keeping me from getting another one is after seeing 3 animals through cancer and as a result having to choose to not go all put to get it, I won't get another animal until I can spend 3000 without blinking on their medical care, per each pet. That's just a choice I had to make for myself.

HentaiGamerKitty -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 5:50:16 AM)
I respect your right to your opinion..however I do feel that my experience in the dog world has left me enough knowledge and experience to give an opinion on the subject. I'm sorry you took my comments so personally..I just don't feel that dogs should be bred unless they have proven their merits in kennel club approved competitions (field trials, conformation ring, obedience competition, etc.) If your dogs had such merits to their name, you never mentioned them. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

AAkasha -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 9:34:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thaily quote: ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut I took him to the Doggie ER tonight, but couldn't afford the cost of the blood work. I found a couple of places that work with the AAHA for helping those without the finances to get their dogs medical care, so I will take him there next week (Monday, Tuesday). And then it died, looks like you didn't do all you could or you would have A. gotten the money you needed or B. made an arrangement with the vet to pay him in terms, something a lot of vets do especially in emergencies. Considering how poorly it looked after 1 week waiting another week wasn't really an option. And I'm sure your son would have some choice words for me, just judging by your screenname I can see bad language isn't a big deal to you, not to mention attacking people's parents, wow. Really classy, how close are you to bringing out the "You so fat"-jabs? The only thing you accomplished by pointing out my age is clarify that older people aren't necessarily wiser or more mature. I'm going to stop replying though, it's obvious that you're too dense to get through to, I feel really bad for your remaining dog and your kid :/ I don't feel particularly bad for you, at least not in the regards to your dead dog, you deserve every bit of guilt you feel for his death. Mind I still pity you. 10 bucks says OP is going to get a new dog to try breeding again, though the question is if she's going to get another poodle or maybe a labrador so she can breed designer mutts.. I mean, labradoodles. Despite the fact breeding is an expensive hobby as already mentioned by multiple (experienced) people and vet and food costs easily amount to $500 or more per pup, assuming she can suddenly afford a vet. Anyway, go on, get your last word in so you can assure yourself this "child" has been thoroughly chastised mock gasp Just a side note -- while labradoodles are a 'designer mutt' they were developed with a purpose, unlike a lot of mixes that are not necessary. I believe Labradoodles were designed so that blind people with allergies could still enjoy the benefits of a guide dog. Akasha

perverseangelic -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 10:45:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Just a side note -- while labradoodles are a 'designer mutt' they were developed with a purpose, unlike a lot of mixes that are not necessary. I believe Labradoodles were designed so that blind people with allergies could still enjoy the benefits of a guide dog. Akasha Thing is, labradoodles are -not- in fact hypoallergenic. In fact, they're less so than poodles. Too, standard poodles have actually been trained sucessfully as guide dogs. We have this weird preference in our guide dogs.

ShadeDiva -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 10:49:19 AM)
Yeah that's sort of the claim. There is no such thing as a non shedding dog though. Even poodles shed, it's just that the hair - unless it's brushed daily or more often and groomed regularly - gets caught up in dreads, so doesn't fall out. But labradoodles can have smooth coats. There isn't a hyper-allergenic dog, but they would be less than others that shed their coats. Not really sure why they felt a need to add in the lab part though. Standard poodles would have worked just fine, there was no reason to ADD in another breed to be honest. Standard poodles are JUST as devoted and hardworking, they are a bird dog for heavens sake, and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter as a breed overall than labs. Labs are sweet as hell but they tend to be on the idiot side unless they are from a blood line that is focusing on the intelligence side for a work dog type of mentality. I just can't for the life of me see what the lab part adds to the mix that wasn't already in the standard poodles other than introduce variations in coat. I think it's just a bunch of hype myself. It's a great marketing ploy though I have to admit and LOTS of people are eating that ploy up in droves. I think they just spotted a great way to sell mixed breed dogs and a brilliant way to play off the American market myself. I also think it's funny as hell to see the folks that shell out thousands of bucks for a mutt look horrified when you throw that out. Like helllllllo what do you think a mutt is? lol. Those are the ones buying the dog for a status symbol I've found. Personally I prefer mutts. They often have better temperments, quite often the best genetics (unless you get the one that has all the bad traits then mother have mercy for that little fella), seem to be smarter in general, and are just as devoted to their owners. As for the pit bull and rottie comment in one of the earlier posts that I just remembered while writing this - what I find sad about that comment in regard to pits and rotts and kids is that most of the bad press about those breeds is false. They are two breeds that most folks can't pick out, did you know that? Most dogs identified as being a pit or rott mix or even full blood, are usually identified INCORRECTLY. Even vets that spend their lives handling dogs often can't accurately pick out a pit from other breeds. Dog experts often have trouble identifying a pit or rot from other breeds even 80% accuractely so it is NO wonder that the largely uninformed general public is not going to be accurate when identifying breeds. What's sad is it's the dogs that take the heat for that. Do you even know what traits a pitbull has that are breed markers? I'll guess that it is much the same as the general public, narrow hips, deep chest, big shoulders, large skull, large and defined and muscular jaws, muscular front and splayed back legs, square snout, short coat, stocky build. Thing is that is the same for a LOT of breeds. Labs fall under that. Boxers fall under that. Mastiffs, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, bulldogs, retrievers, etc ALL fall under that same description. Make it a mixed breed and seriously, it is ANYone's guess at that point. A lab mix can look a LOT like a root or pit mix. When it comes to aggression and biting it's the smaller dogs that hold the trophy there. Dachshunds are little land sharks. Same for Pomeranians, Chihuahuas, etc. They are by far the most likely to turn and try to bite the living fuck out of you. Thing is, they are small so most folks dismiss them as being safe. (Though there has been a case of a Pomeranian-caused death - honest lol) The fact is that since they are small they take longer to do serious damage. A few nasty evil little nips by them is much different than a defensive nip from a much larger dog. And lets face it, little kids should never ever ever be left alone with an animal ever. They do shit like pull hair, pull ears, poke fingers in eyes, noses, and ears, grab a nose, get into the food and they freaking HURT when they do it. It is natural for a dog to cuff an errant pup and socially that is what they DO in a pack but human kids don't know how to read a dog's body language or when they are saying enough, and they wind up getting really hurt from a nip that is the dog's only means of saying enough already unless they suffer through it, manage to get away, or bark. And if they run, well it is a dog's natural tendancy to get fired up over small prey running. Some fanatasic dogs just revert - it's instinct, they see a kid running and they could be fine for years and something just triggers a prey response, some dogs have it more than others. Others only do a herding response, nipping at the heels, barking, waeving around the running kid, but this is all normal dog behavior. It just bugs me to see rotts and pits getting such an undeserved raw deal. Chows are Shar Peis are generally so much worse temperment wise. I really don't like Chows as a breed. They revert to pack mentality too quickly for my taste, and they have a high prey response. Naturally of course there are always exceptions. But here, see how good YOU are at picking out a pit. If nothing else it will give you some examples of other breeds that have the same physical traits that pits do (some are obviously not pits, but many folks aren't educated when it comes to breeds) and that are often misidentified as being a pit. Obviously these are mostly full breeds but imagine any of them appearing as part of a mixed breed and you'll see how easy it is to make a bad call: http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html I just really hate seeing them get such a bad rap. I've only seen 2 rotts and 1 pit with bad temperments. The rest have all been freaking absolute sweeties with totally gentle dispositions.

ShadeDiva -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 10:53:47 AM)
Egads the typos! sigh "Chows are Shar Peis" should be: Chows and Shar Peis LOL And waeving is supposed to be weaving. And root was supposed to be rott. Damn typo demons.

AAkasha -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 3:30:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShadeDiva Yeah that's sort of the claim. There is no such thing as a non shedding dog though. Even poodles shed, it's just that the hair - unless it's brushed daily or more often and groomed regularly - gets caught up in dreads, so doesn't fall out. But labradoodles can have smooth coats. There isn't a hyper-allergenic dog, but they would be less than others that shed their coats. Not really sure why they felt a need to add in the lab part though. Standard poodles would have worked just fine, there was no reason to ADD in another breed to be honest. Standard poodles are JUST as devoted and hardworking, they are a bird dog for heavens sake, and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter as a breed overall than labs. Labs are sweet as hell but they tend to be on the idiot side unless they are from a blood line that is focusing on the intelligence side for a work dog type of mentality. I just can't for the life of me see what the lab part adds to the mix that wasn't already in the standard poodles other than introduce variations in coat. I think it's just a bunch of hype myself. It's a great marketing ploy though I have to admit and LOTS of people are eating that ploy up in droves. I think they just spotted a great way to sell mixed breed dogs and a brilliant way to play off the American market myself. My knowledge is fairly recent and limited in this area, but I thought that poodles, while highly trainable and intelligent, are prone to hyperactivity (not literally, but I hope you know what I mean) whereas labs are typically extremely "mellow". Wouldn't sheer numbers factor into it also? What would the success rate be of standard poodles to actually complete guide dog training? Probably less -- because of their personality types? The rates for labs I've heard are as low as 30% making it to becoming actual guide dogs, even the ones bred for this specifically to have a consistent temperment. If standard poodles would have a less consistent 'success rate' then perhaps it's cost prohibitive? I also get the impression that super intelligence is not necessarily a key trait for a guide dog, whereas consistency, obedience and other traits are. I've heard of dogs flunking out of guide dog school because they were too curious, too intelligent. If you think about it, being a guide dog might be too monotonous for a dog of extremely high intelligence, where new challenges would be wanted. It must be a very careful balance -- I just wonder if standard poodles are simply "overqualified" for the most part. Part of the "stupidity" you speak of in labs might be what makes the reliable old workhorses if they have just enough intelligence to make the set of decisions they are trained to make daily. The guide dog school I am familiar with breeds about 60 - 70% labs, 20% golden retrievers and a small percentage of german shepards. Akasha

ShadeDiva -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 3:49:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha My knowledge is fairly recent and limited in this area, but I thought that poodles, while highly trainable and intelligent, are prone to hyperactivity (not literally, but I hope you know what I mean) whereas labs are typically extremely "mellow". Wouldn't sheer numbers factor into it also? What would the success rate be of standard poodles to actually complete guide dog training? Probably less -- because of their personality types? The rates for labs I've heard are as low as 30% making it to becoming actual guide dogs, even the ones bred for this specifically to have a consistent temperment. If standard poodles would have a less consistent 'success rate' then perhaps it's cost prohibitive? I also get the impression that super intelligence is not necessarily a key trait for a guide dog, whereas consistency, obedience and other traits are. I've heard of dogs flunking out of guide dog school because they were too curious, too intelligent. If you think about it, being a guide dog might be too monotonous for a dog of extremely high intelligence, where new challenges would be wanted. It must be a very careful balance -- I just wonder if standard poodles are simply "overqualified" for the most part. Part of the "stupidity" you speak of in labs might be what makes the reliable old workhorses if they have just enough intelligence to make the set of decisions they are trained to make daily. The guide dog school I am familiar with breeds about 60 - 70% labs, 20% golden retrievers and a small percentage of german shepards. Akasha I'm no expert. But yanno now that you say that - I bet you are right. Labs are actually more hyper dogs, IME, but poodles ARE extremely smart and they, as a result, DO probably think to much to make a great guide dog. I still to this day have no idea how my dog (who was part poodle) pulled some of the stunts that he pulled. He was an amazing dog. We joked that he was either too dumb or too smart for his own good, but I'll go with the too smart myself. He would have been a horrid guide dog because he had opinions, and thought for himself too much, even though he was highly attentive and focused on me and lived for my approval. But he would know something was wrong, and he'd choose to do it anyway, because well, he just was prepared to suffer the consequences (not my fault, this was a direct result of his background before I came into his life) and so he'd consciously decide to do whateevr it was he knew he shouldn't be doing. I'm just glad he was a mix and wasn't a standard, height with his brains would have been a severe issue LOL.

FLButtSlut -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 10:34:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShadeDiva Let me start by saying WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I am SO glad you didn;t take my post in a negative sense. I was gritting my teeth the whole time and almost hit delte a few times LOL! THANK you for reading it in a positive mindset. About the quote I clipped up above though, allow me to clarify. The tiny toys and the teacups ARE worse. By that I mean genetically they have a LOT of complications that do affect their health very negatively. the larger sized toy poodles do remarkably well, I think they are one of the only toy breeds that do. But they as a breed suffer many of the same issues smaller dogs have as open fontaelles (where their skill has a hole due to not closing fully around the brain) that many breeders recite is an asset, that medically speaking obviously isn't. Case in point, the mini breed dog (I can;t remember the specific breed but I can dredge that up if needed) that had a pinecone fall on it's head and kill it due to scoring on the fontaelle. The bdogs that have difficulty in breathing, respiratory issues where when they have the slightest exertion they struggle for every breath. The nasal and eye and limb/spinal issues where reduction just isn't an asset. Dear ShadeDiva, I have read your posts here and on other sites for quite some time and from that find you to be a reasonable, informed and generally intelligent and kind person. The WAY you made your post, as I am sure you realize, makes all the difference when compared to the others. As for your clarification...you are right, the smaller breeds do have their own "health" issues. I had never heard of the skull one, and admit that I chuckled at the idea of it being positive. First time I have ever heard of a "hole in the head" being positive! I have a friend with a bulldog and the respiratory problems of them are something I am very aware of. I could here him snoring while on the phone with my friend! When something is either bred very small or very large, there are going to be some health problems, and in fact the statistical life span shortens as a dog gets overly large or small, which I am sure you know. I love dalmations, but the genetic problems with them was more than I wanted to deal with. The fact that we are preparing for the puppies and that they are Charley's is very helpful in dealing with it. Death is horrible, but when there are others who still need you, you just kind of go on. I have dealt with a lot of death in my lifetime and my spiritual beliefs help a lot with that. Of course, we are very much hoping that one of the pups will be a "clone" of dad as well.

FLButtSlut -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 10:42:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: perverseangelic Thing is, labradoodles are -not- in fact hypoallergenic. In fact, they're less so than poodles. Too, standard poodles have actually been trained sucessfully as guide dogs. We have this weird preference in our guide dogs. I think standard poodles just get a bad rap all around. Originally, the standards were both guard and hunting (bird) dogs. By today's standards though, most find it hard to take a standard poodle seriously as they walk around with their "poofy" little head and tail. They do, however, have an excellent reputation as family pets. From a scientific standpoint, "labradoodles" being hypo-allergenic is a crap shoot at best anyway. While you can hope for certain traits to be dominant, at this point, you can't guarantee it, i.e. theoretically my son should have had brown eyes like mine (being that darker is more dominant and the mother's traits add to that dominance), but my son got his father's blue eyes. I have seen that they are now training many mixed breeds as guide dogs as long as they fit within the "size" constraints. Obviously, a beagle or cocker spaniel mix would not be an appropriate guide dog if they had the size of those breeds. It would just be awkward. It is great to see that they many dogs are being rescued for that purpose however.

FLButtSlut -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/15/2005 10:52:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha My knowledge is fairly recent and limited in this area, but I thought that poodles, while highly trainable and intelligent, are prone to hyperactivity (not literally, but I hope you know what I mean) whereas labs are typically extremely "mellow". Wouldn't sheer numbers factor into it also? What would the success rate be of standard poodles to actually complete guide dog training? Probably less -- because of their personality types? The rates for labs I've heard are as low as 30% making it to becoming actual guide dogs, even the ones bred for this specifically to have a consistent temperment. If standard poodles would have a less consistent 'success rate' then perhaps it's cost prohibitive? Actually, STANDARD poodles are not prone to being hyper, but yes the little guys do have that tendency, although most grow out of it by age two. I believe that using the Standards could be cost prohibitive as well as "overqualified" for the job. Poodles are among the smartest breeds out there.

ShadeDiva -> RE: My Poodle's Performance Anxiety (10/16/2005 9:58:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut Dear ShadeDiva, I have read your posts here and on other sites for quite some time and from that find you to be a reasonable, informed and generally intelligent and kind person. The WAY you made your post, as I am sure you realize, makes all the difference when compared to the others. Thank you for your kind words. Most folks don't seem to get that from my words, cuz they generally are brutally blunt and folks always seem to think I'm always attacking them or getting emotionally involved in the discussion which, frankly, almost never happens. I guess I've started to expect that when folks read my posts and am just preparing for that inevitable deluge of offended and angry response for something that I personally thought was devoid of any emotion or actual judgment. Thank you for reminding me that in expectring that I am doing the disservice of not giving the reader the benefit of the doubt to comprehend what was actually written - I think I needed a reminder, I've been getting too cynical these days I think. quote: As for your clarification...you are right, the smaller breeds do have their own "health" issues. I had never heard of the skull one, and admit that I chuckled at the idea of it being positive. First time I have ever heard of a "hole in the head" being positive! I have a friend with a bulldog and the respiratory problems of them are something I am very aware of. I could here him snoring while on the phone with my friend! When something is either bred very small or very large, there are going to be some health problems, and in fact the statistical life span shortens as a dog gets overly large or small, which I am sure you know. I love dalmations, but the genetic problems with them was more than I wanted to deal with. The fact that we are preparing for the puppies and that they are Charley's is very helpful in dealing with it. Death is horrible, but when there are others who still need you, you just kind of go on. I have dealt with a lot of death in my lifetime and my spiritual beliefs help a lot with that. Of course, we are very much hoping that one of the pups will be a "clone" of dad as well. I hope that you do find one that has that certain "spark" and attitude that will reflect his sire. I still miss my little grandpa, as I used to call him, horribly. It will be a very long time before I get another dog again. One because I refuse to have another dog while I live in an apartment, two, because it's sort of interesting to not be that tied down at home, I had mine for 17 years and I rescued him when I was on the streets and 17 years old from some hoods I was hanging around with - so I've never had that not tied down feeling as an adult before. Plus he really brought home to be what kind of commitment a dog can be - I had him for 17 years, and I thought at best he had maybe two years left when I got him. And to be honest, he was FAR better off with me - even though I had no home and was sleeping under bridges and overpasses and under bushes and the like, and not even normal dog food or even a real bowl or collar - than he was where he was at. I couldn't have afforded any vet care then, hell I couldn't even get him his shots, but it was better than the alternative he had, believe me. It's amazing what that little dog went through before me and how open his heart remained. A definite testament to the strength, beauty and love a dog holds within themselves. So I guess I sort of straddle the fence on this one. I understand and I accept that I was not an educated or even responsible pet owner for the most of the time I had him or my cats. But the reality is also that they DID have better lives while living with me. There were times that I did have to choose bewteen their health care and my rent or food. It was NOT an ideal situation. But if not for me, they would have either died, as both my cats had hours left to live when I got them from the shelter, and one lived for 16 years, though the last year and ½ showed me why I don't want more animals unless I can afford to throw down at least 3 grand for their vet bills, as I couldn't afford neither the radiation nor the chemo to address his cancer. Then again, it wasn't curable, the best estimate was it would buy him maybe 3-6 months more. But it killed me to not be able to at least give it a go. My dog would have suffered more and more abuse as they were increasing the cruelty they unleashed on that poor little fella, and I have no doubt they would have eventually worked up to killing him in a slow fashion had fate not brought us together. They were already placing him in the most extremly harsh, cruel, and dangerous situations hoping he'd die for their entertainment (like dropping him onto busy freeways so they could watch and see him dodge cars and get hit while they were slamming their high is just one small example) when I appeared in his life. So yeah. I wasn't the ideal pet owner. I wasn't even what I could now call a responsible pet owner. I was FULLY an ignorant pet owner. I hate saying it, but it's true. But I was a HELL of a lot better place and owner for that little dog to be with than the druggie jerks I rescued him from. Sometimes it isn't ideal, it's not perfect. But sometimes, it's enough, and it IS better than the alternative. Even if it isn't 100% by the book. So yeah. I'm totally straddling the fence here. But I'm not convinced either side of that fence is 100% always going to be the best and the only right way to do things. Life just doesn't always hand you those black and whites. It would be a LOT easier if it did, that's for sure. So I've been there, done that - in a sense.

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