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RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 1:19:00 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Up until very recently, "sodomy" (which is sometimes defined as any "deviant" sexual behavior, or sexual behavior that is practiced for pleasure rather than procreation) was a criminal offense that could get you locked up. In some states, sodomy practiced by homosexuals is still illegal or frowned upon.

Most sexual activities that defer from the objective of procreation are, or have been, considered criminal, or socially frowned upon.

I'm not really sure why being "perverted" or "deviant" (notoriously derogatory terminology) are socially acceptable in the BDSM community. Personally, I wouldn't want my sexual activities to be defined as anything more than "What it is that I do".

PS: Deviance and perversion are fun terms for humiliation play, as are whore, slut, bitch, wench, and etc. They are not, however, terms which I would use to describe myself on a constant basis.


(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 1:41:13 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not really sure why being "perverted" or "deviant" (notoriously derogatory terminology) are socially acceptable in the BDSM community. Personally, I wouldn't want my sexual activities to be defined as anything more than "What it is that I do".


When I have spoken to friends, they enjoy calling themselves perverted or deviant. Lol... at times I have just jokingly called myself 'pervette' - but I wouldn't dream of calling someone else such unless they had told me specifically. One friend, told me that to call herself a deviant was a way of 'taking back' what society was trying to take away and manipulate like it was some bad word. To her, it wasnt a bad word, but a word that described her a different from what was straight down the line. After all, a deviant is just going 'off course' of what they are expected to do. It gave her freedom. More power to her.

As for peverted - In some sections of society that people use pervert outside wiitwd, use it as a way to diminish what to them is a lesser form or occupation. In a way its similar to the way some people use the word vanilla in wiitwd.
Mind you, that is just my observation on it, not set in stone - thank goodness!lol

Peace and Love

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 2:09:24 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Cultural phraseology is a source of huge amusement for me. Now in many areas of the US if I address somebody at a BDSM function as “You kinky old perverted bastard” I’ll probably get a knuckle sandwich, not I may add, for referring to them as kinky and perverted but for referring to them as a bastard (probably they have doubts about their legitimacy). However Aussies use the term Bastard as a form of affection between mates.

To digress a little, I have memories of a bar in Saigon half filled with Aussies and I entered with a group of Marines who I have been drinking with, and when I saw a familiar Aussie face I bellowed “G’day ya old bastard!” .. Heeeeeeh the room cleared of US service personal because they expected my bellow to spark an old fashion bar brawl….. I had to re-edumicate my US mates as well as half of my own crew that we may all spear English officially, but they spoke Americianese and I spoke Australianese… It was the source of much shit stirring at times….

With most of us Aussies (except the annually retentive), so we’ll refer to the “True Blue Ockers”, you can call us what you want as long as you are smiling. No smile and you may have a good old fashion stoush on your hands.


_____________________________

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http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 2:15:30 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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quote:

With most of us Aussies (except the annually retentive), so we’ll refer to the “True Blue Ockers”, you can call us what you want as long as you are smiling. No smile and you may have a good old fashion stoush on your hands.


OK - I have to ask IronBear - pleeeeease
What is the True Blue Ocker?

Peace and Love with intrigue....

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...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 2:28:37 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

With most of us Aussies (except the annually retentive), so we’ll refer to the “True Blue Ockers”, you can call us what you want as long as you are smiling. No smile and you may have a good old fashion stoush on your hands.


OK - I have to ask IronBear - pleeeeease
What is the True Blue Ocker?

Peace and Love with intrigue....


An Aussie of the old school with much of the Anzac in him. Self relient, and bound in the culture of mateship which has been one of the mainstays in the development iof our country.

"Ocker" is often a hard drinking football crazy, male with the best and the worst traites of males, Australian.

"True Blue" is a "real" Aussie. proud of our country, mindfull of those who died to defend it, mindfull that on one day in WW1 7 Victoria Crosses were won by Australians, A true Aussie mate who will take insane risks to defend and stand along side his mates and never desert them.

Placed in a great sone by John Williamson entitled "True Blue" If you want i have the words and can get them for you.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 2:53:22 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

I know stef,I was trying to point out why I took umbrage with the term,vanilla is actually a wonderful flavor. But that doesn't seem to be the connotation attached to it.

Yes, I was agreeing with you. I too never could understand those who used it as a derogatory term.

quote:

And tedium and being bored are part of life-it's not 24 7 excitement is it?

Mundane simply describes the world we all live in,not a lot more.

If it describes portions of everyone's lives, why would you advocate using it to label a subset of the population? It conveys the same shades of elitism you talk of regarding some people's use of the word vanilla.

~stef

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 3:01:38 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		It's a personal prefference stef, I use it to remind my self that there are more similarities than differences,overall-as I said,everyone is mundane to some extent,admit it-or no. I dislike other sterotypical buzz words as well.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 3:11:17 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
"True Blue" is a "real" Aussie. proud of our country, mindfull of those who died to defend it, mindfull that on one day in WW1 7 Victoria Crosses were won by Australians, A true Aussie mate who will take insane risks to defend and stand along side his mates and never desert them.


And sadly in a battle that should never have taken place except for a certain First Lord whose background included parole breaking.

Sorry, mate, but I get a little bitter when good men die because of someone's "Grand Strategy."

Yes, I am a "little bitter" these days


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(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 4:04:54 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

An Aussie of the old school with much of the Anzac in him. Self relient, and bound in the culture of mateship which has been one of the mainstays in the development iof our country.

"Ocker" is often a hard drinking football crazy, male with the best and the worst traites of males, Australian.

"True Blue" is a "real" Aussie. proud of our country, mindfull of those who died to defend it, mindfull that on one day in WW1 7 Victoria Crosses were won by Australians, A true Aussie mate who will take insane risks to defend and stand along side his mates and never desert them.

Placed in a great sone by John Williamson entitled "True Blue" If you want i have the words and can get them for you.


Thank you for responding IronBear, for the knowledge you grace us all with.
I would be really interested in the words as well - I shall endeavour to contact via mail, thank You.
Apology to the OP for leaning slightly off topic there - my bad.(And inquisitive nature)

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 4:13:56 PM   
gratefulangel


Posts: 5
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Philadelphia,PA
Status: offline
quote:

For me, to say someone is vanilla it just means that that person does not participate or desire a certain set of sexual acts ranging from BDSM, fetishes and role play.
I am in complete agreement with this .

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 5:33:03 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
"True Blue" is a "real" Aussie. proud of our country, mindfull of those who died to defend it, mindfull that on one day in WW1 7 Victoria Crosses were won by Australians, A true Aussie mate who will take insane risks to defend and stand along side his mates and never desert them.


And sadly in a battle that should never have taken place except for a certain First Lord whose background included parole breaking.

Sorry, mate, but I get a little bitter when good men die because of someone's "Grand Strategy."

Yes, I am a "little bitter" these days



< Tosses John a can of Fosters > Lets drink to Good Leadership, Good Mates and remember the ones who didn't make it.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 5:55:35 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear


< Tosses John a can of Fosters > Lets drink to Good Leadership, Good Mates and remember the ones who didn't make it.


Absent Friends!

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 8:23:23 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

It [mundane] was coined specifically as a descriptor of what is considered to be "not us".

I had heard it used this way before so went looking for it and found this page with examples. I haven't started using it, though, because I heard it on Babylon 5 and since I'm not a telepath I'd rather not go around referring to myself as mundane.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 10/9/2005 8:24:34 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 8:46:13 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Cultural phraseology is a source of huge amusement for me. Now in many areas of the US if I address somebody at a BDSM function as “You kinky old perverted bastard” I’ll probably get a knuckle sandwich, not I may add, for referring to them as kinky and perverted but for referring to them as a bastard (probably they have doubts about their legitimacy). However Aussies use the term Bastard as a form of affection between mates.


It's much the same in our household. Having a matriarchal household, with both branches of the house (esoteric and pragmatic) run by women, it is pretty much expected that the females are going to be strong and opinionated. The term "bitch" is tossed about regularly and jovially, and is really considered quite a compliment in our household. Even from our male companions, the term "you are -such- a bitch" is most often used in humor, and as a way of acknowledging "yes, you're the boss, and you won another one!" In fact, one of our favorite beloveds would get into an intense discussion with SilverRose, and when she'd pegged him down in on one of the "tangent avenue" streets, and we knew the row was over, he'd look at her and say "You are a stone cold bitch", to which she would lovingly respond "you'd be the one to know, you steel-balled bastard", and they'd kiss and go on to other things.

Of course, Havens forbid that anyone who didn't know us would go in the same conversational direction. *chuckles*

It's all in knowing your audience.

Lady Zephyr

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 8:51:56 PM   
Soulhuntre


Posts: 223
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
And then the thought, do we even need to have the term vanilla? What purpose does it serve?


In most subgroups the term "vanilla" or "straights" or some variation means "people who don't share this interest with us".

I have seen Anime convention goers use it, BDSM people, swingers, musicians and so on... it is not a BDSM specfic term.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 8:54:33 PM   
Janon


Posts: 17
Joined: 9/1/2005
Status: offline 		I'm surprised no one said the big word...

"normal"

To me, the word "vanilla" is a different, well, less painful way of saying normal. "Those people" who don't do wiitwd (just finally figured that acronym out, yay) are seen as normal, we are not. I know I'm thankful for boards like this one, since I choose not to talk to my "vanilla" friends about these things.

I would think that the BDSM community coined the phrase vanilla to feel a little more comfortable with themselves. I'm just a different flavor, not "abnormal". (Abby someone, yes, that's who's brain it was...lol).

Janon

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 8:56:28 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel

quote:

An Aussie of the old school with much of the Anzac in him. Self relient, and bound in the culture of mateship which has been one of the mainstays in the development iof our country.

"Ocker" is often a hard drinking football crazy, male with the best and the worst traites of males, Australian.

"True Blue" is a "real" Aussie. proud of our country, mindfull of those who died to defend it, mindfull that on one day in WW1 7 Victoria Crosses were won by Australians, A true Aussie mate who will take insane risks to defend and stand along side his mates and never desert them.

Placed in a great sone by John Williamson entitled "True Blue" If you want i have the words and can get them for you.


Thank you for responding IronBear, for the knowledge you grace us all with.
I would be really interested in the words as well - I shall endeavour to contact via mail, thank You.
Apology to the OP for leaning slightly off topic there - my bad.(And inquisitive nature)

Peace and Love


Go check your message box lass added a couple of things as well....

< Message edited by IronBear -- 10/9/2005 8:57:26 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/9/2005 8:59:36 PM   
LadiesBladewing


Posts: 944
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sfgrrl

If it describes portions of everyone's lives, why would you advocate using it to label a subset of the population? It conveys the same shades of elitism you talk of regarding some people's use of the word vanilla.

~stef


I think that most people who use the term are just looking for a simple way to explain where their life diverges from a "basic". We use the term "vanilla" for the portions of our life that are comfortable, regular and dependable, and for the parts of our life that are common to many other households. Vanilla is the most popular flavor for ice-cream, and has been for a very long time, even though there are many other flavor options and more coming every day. Vanilla is the staple that you go for when you are going to be serving a group of people, and you don't really know who likes what, or whether some particular choice might set off someone's allergies, or whatever.

In the same way, in living our lives, there are parts that are going to be comfortable no matter who is around. Then there are variations on a theme that some people will like, and others won't, and some won't even want to try (and some are allergic to even being around). So when dealing with people, it is important to know when to "serve vanilla", and when variations on the theme will be appreciated.

When I hear the term "vanilla", though I have heard it used derogatorily, I tend to envision it as being the cohesive part that we all share, upon which variations are built by adding (not subtracting). We may add caramel swirls, chocolate chips, nuts, strawberries...but even when making ice cream of any flavor, the base is still the same -- milk, eggs, cream, vanilla bean...and so, in life, there is our "vanilla"--the things that we share with others in the world, that provides a base, and some connection.

Lady Zephyr

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/10/2005 4:24:56 AM   
cxlture


Posts: 1
Joined: 9/20/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think the terms are opposites of each other or even mutually exclusive.

in the future when people are running around living out every carnal fantasy imaginable, whipping dolphins and calling them tuna as they chatter back in computerized voices "please beat me harder land master" and nuns in latex habits solicit donations in front of supermarkets for the fetish pope and the church of nipple play then who knows what will be termed "kinky" or "vanilla" amidst that bedlam. but as society shifts, so does what's kinky and vanilla, including microcosmic ones such as this.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Vanilla vs Kinky - 10/10/2005 5:13:59 AM   
1RottenJohnny


Posts: 113
Joined: 11/12/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nuke718

I would be perfectly happy if somebody could coin a new term, that isn't negative and divisive. But saying not-aware-of-their-kinks just doesnt flow off the tongue lol.


How about twdsdtm (those who do something different than me)? It seems like it could apply to everybody pretty well.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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