Vanilla vs Kinky (Full Version)

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kyraofMists -> Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 8:02:41 AM)

I was having a discussion with my Lord last night on the definition and connotation of the words vanilla and kinky. Are these words actually antonyms of each other? What do we actually mean when we say someone is vanilla or they are kinky?

For me, to say someone is vanilla it just means that that person does not participate or desire a certain set of sexual acts ranging from BDSM, fetishes and role play. However, many times when I have heard that term used the definition is the same but the connotation is that the person is somehow less because they have more mainstream desires; that they are sexually inhibited. So is that what vanilla means, someone who is sexually inhibited and doesn’t participate in all our various kinks?

As for the term kinky, I have a more difficult time with defining that word. I enjoy all kinds of sexual acts that many would consider to be kinky, bondage, flogging, caning, knife play, fire play, clothespins, etc., but I do not see myself as kinky. Mainstream society would view these things as kinky and given the prevailing political climate in the US, they may even consider it deviant behavior. So what is kinky and who decides that? Many years ago, masturbation was considered deviant behavior and now it is just a mainstream act. So will the things that are considered kinky now become mainstream desires in 1, 20 or 50 years and be accepted and then the word “vanilla” will have no meaning at all.

And then the thought, do we even need to have the term vanilla? What purpose does it serve?

Knight's kyra



darkinshadows -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 9:00:33 AM)

quote:

And then the thought, do we even need to have the term vanilla? What purpose does it serve?


It serves that it makes some who do wiitwd feel better!
It serves nothing more than to create the us and them enviroment. Personally I dislike the term because it serves no purpose whatsoever, to me. I do not believe that anyone is vanilla - its just a falicy. As for the word kinky - well, again I believe that no one is vanilla and everyone is kinky. Its just there are a few who realise they are. Kinky isn't just about a deviant behaviour, its about a kink that causes an individual reaction to each person. At least that is my interpretation. Everyone has something that causes that light to switch on, that flutter to occur, that smile to appear, that groan to sound.
So, yes, I am kinky and happy to be so. I am even happier to know that I KNOW!...lol

I would love to see the usage of the word vanilla disappear. I happen to find vanilla wonderful and tasty, not bland or boring. Its exotic, smooth and can be used mixed with many different things. I might not associate myself with a flavour, (I happen to believe I am more than just any flavour - I am spirit and body and mind) but I don't find or need a reason to label it as a loathsome term just so I can look much more self aware.

Peace and Love



Mercnbeth -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 10:15:41 AM)

quote:

For me, to say someone is vanilla it just means that that person does not participate or desire a certain set of sexual acts ranging from BDSM, fetishes and role play.


for this slave, the term vanilla has little if anything to do with sex acts or preferences within the bedroom or dungeon. this slave refers to that as level of kink, or kinkiness. the term vanilla, for this slave relates to mainstream societies version of a relationship and a D/s or even moreso an M/s relationship is drastically different than the ones the vanillas practice.




JustaTop -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 10:16:55 AM)

Using the word vanilla is an expression of elitism,nothing more.

People who beat,humiliate,bind each other,etc...are superior to "common" people yanno.[:'(]



Nuke718 -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 10:22:21 AM)

Nicely said Angel.

And I agree up to a point. I use vanilla as a term that refers to people who are not self aware of their kinks. Not necesarily that htey are inhibited, but that they haven't looked beyond the what the majority of sexually active people consider mainstream. For instance doggie style was probably considered pretty kinky in my folks day, but I hardly know anybody in my generation that is sexually active that doesn't consider this a perfectly viable alternative to missionary.

Like wise a bit of light bondage is becoming pretty common, and a lot of my "vanilla" friends have at least tried it. Same with role play. If sitcoms bring it up regularly it's starting to be not so edgy and scary...

I would be perfectly happy if somebody could coin a new term, that isn't negative and divisive. But saying not-aware-of-their-kinks just doesnt flow off the tongue lol. And it STILL marks a line between us and them. So while I would prefer another term, I am comfortable using this in the meantime.



Nuke }:-



houndguy -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 10:30:10 AM)

My wife and I are in a Poly relationship. She has no interest in BDSM at all, so technically she is "Vanilla" where I am "Kinky" under the terms used mostly by BDSM people.

I think "Kinky" is what ever you want it to be. To a non-poly person, our relationship would be "kinky".

Personally she prefers the phrase "Vanilla with swirls".



greenie -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 10:33:05 AM)

What else should we call those who aren't into wiitwd? i don't think that for most of us we are trying to say that we are better then them or them us but just a way to differentiate. Kind of like i am blonde but there are brunettes in the world too (ok so i'm a natural brunette lol). How else would i say brunette? Would i say "someone who is not blonde like me"? We have to catagorize things in order to understand what someone is talking about. If i was talking about dog breeds i would classify what type of dog i was talking about. If i was talking about car makes i would classify what type of car. If i was talking about careers i would specify which career i was speaking of. Does this make sense to anyone? Sometimes i feel like i'm just babbling lol.



JustaTop -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 10:48:29 AM)

I call them "mundane".

Which is in itself a bit elitist,but generally describes a person who only does boring day to day things most folks practice. Common folk ,in other words. Still doesn't mean that perverts have the market on anything cornered,does it? If you feel the need to tear someone else down to elevate yourself-it's pretty damned pathetic-and does NOT say good things about YOU.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 11:05:50 AM)

For me vanilla serves to describe a non-power dynamic relationship or what sort of culture a person comes from.

There are lots of "in betweens." In college I had a friend who insisted I call her mint chocolate chip because, even though she wasn't into M/s type stuff, she certainly enjoyed a bit of kinky play in her sex.

I describe my relationship with the boyfriend as vanilla because there is no expectation on either side of authority or obedience. I tend to be the leader in the relationship, but there's no punishment, no expectation of obedience, no active dominant status on my part of submissive status on his part. The relationship dynamic we have is vanilla.

But we play all the time, sometimes me topping, sometimes him topping.



JohnWarren -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 11:19:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: greenie

What else should we call those who aren't into wiitwd? i don't think that for most of us we are trying to say that we are better then them or them us but just a way to differentiate. Kind of like i am blonde but there are brunettes in the world too (ok so i'm a natural brunette lol). How else would i say brunette? Would i say "someone who is not blonde like me"? We have to catagorize things in order to understand what someone is talking about. If i was talking about dog breeds i would classify what type of dog i was talking about. If i was talking about car makes i would classify what type of car. If i was talking about careers i would specify which career i was speaking of. Does this make sense to anyone? Sometimes i feel like i'm just babbling lol.


Often the people who read discrimination into a label are responding more to their inner prejudices than to anything larger. They are often trying to make themselves feel better about themselves by assigning prejudical feelings to others.





KittenWithaTwist -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 11:35:22 AM)

But don't you see that you are breaking someone down by calling them "mundane"? You're judging them based on pre conceived notions of what you believe to be exciting vs. boring. We all do day to day activities, at least, I do. My partner and I go to work, eat supper, sleep, cuddle, watch television, surf the net, hang out, and drink diet soda.

One's sex life can be utterly amazing or completely void, yet that hardly makes one "mundane".



JustaTop -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 11:49:03 AM)

Extracts and entemology of the word "Mundane"

From the latin "mundus" :1 the world-The Earth. :
A planet.
(figurative): The universe.
An individual or group perspective or social setting.

In other words,dealing with worldly things.

Other definitions of the adjective "Mundane"

worldly, profane, as opposed to heavenly
ordinary; not new
tedious; repetitive and boring


I really don't see how using this phrase is derogatory. It describes the commonality of humanity,and their day to day existence. Whereas the term "vanilla" usually connotates something bland,or boring. Milquetoast,oatmeal without flavoring.

It was coined specifically as a descriptor of what is considered to be "not us".

Boredom and everyday routines are not terribly exciting. But we deal with them in our day to day lives as a matter of course.

So I find this descriptor apt,in as much as we all are "mundane" at some level. You cannot wear the cuffs ALL the time![;)]



WickedKev -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 12:32:25 PM)

Vanilla for me is just a term to describe people not in a kink lifestyle. My wife had no interest in BDSM, D/s, or SM so she was therefore a vanilla. For me it is no more than a label, not derogortory nor elitist.



darkinshadows -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 12:38:14 PM)

quote:

There are lots of "in betweens." In college I had a friend who insisted I call her mint chocolate chip because, even though she wasn't into M/s type stuff, she certainly enjoyed a bit of kinky play in her sex.


Emerald - Now see, thats cool, well at least I believe so... because she insisted on mint choc chip - and because she asked and You respected her, a mutual understanding is reached.

I just see the word vanilla used so often as a derogatory term, I have grown to dislike it and I know plenty of people who dislike being told that they are only vanilla and so have no concept of wiitwd. I think its a terrible term.

I know what greenie means by having a general term to catergorise people helps - but would it not be more helpful to find out what these so called 'vanillas' actually want? In the UK - it took forever for black people to be called black, and not brown or dark - people wanted to be called black. To me, using the world vanilla is no different to me calling some sub I don't know 'sista' or someone coming along and calling you 'slut' or 'subbie' - its too familiar with no forethought.

Peace and Love



stef -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 12:41:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

Other definitions of the adjective "Mundane"

worldly, profane, as opposed to heavenly
ordinary; not new
tedious; repetitive and boring

I really don't see how using this phrase is derogatory.

You don't see how being refered to as 'tedious and boring' might be considered derogatory?

quote:

It describes the commonality of humanity,and their day to day existence. Whereas the term "vanilla" usually connotates something bland,or boring. Milquetoast,oatmeal without flavoring.

Have you ever tasted real vanilla? It's a very flavorful spice. Anyone who considered it to be bland, boring or without flavoring has some serious taste bud damage.

~stef



darkinshadows -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 12:42:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren


quote:

ORIGINAL: greenie

What else should we call those who aren't into wiitwd? i don't think that for most of us we are trying to say that we are better then them or them us but just a way to differentiate. Kind of like i am blonde but there are brunettes in the world too (ok so i'm a natural brunette lol). How else would i say brunette? Would i say "someone who is not blonde like me"? We have to catagorize things in order to understand what someone is talking about. If i was talking about dog breeds i would classify what type of dog i was talking about. If i was talking about car makes i would classify what type of car. If i was talking about careers i would specify which career i was speaking of. Does this make sense to anyone? Sometimes i feel like i'm just babbling lol.


Often the people who read discrimination into a label are responding more to their inner prejudices than to anything larger. They are often trying to make themselves feel better about themselves by assigning prejudical feelings to others.






So because someone dislikes the usage of a word and sites discrimination, thats because they are secretly or unknowingly harbouring an inner prejudical feelings on that section who are being labeled? or that the labeler is the one harbouring inner prejudicial feelings? I became lost on your statement.

Peace and Love



JohnWarren -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 12:49:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dark~angel


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Often the people who read discrimination into a label are responding more to their inner prejudices than to anything larger. They are often trying to make themselves feel better about themselves by assigning prejudical feelings to others.

So because someone dislikes the usage of a word and sites discrimination, thats because they are secretly or unknowingly harbouring an inner prejudical feelings on that section who are being labeled? or that the labeler is the one harbouring inner prejudicial feelings? I became lost on your statement.


Try getting found.

The first word in the statement was "often."

Did I hit a sore spot? Sorry.




daddysprop247 -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 12:58:30 PM)

unlike many, i don't think of "vanilla" as those who do not practice BDSM or live a D/s lifestyle. vanilla to me just means mainstream, status quo, socially acceptable. it is not good or bad. in fact, i would very much like to be "vanilla", to have my lifestyle and views accepted by society in general and not seen as some dark perversion of the way society says things should be.

"kinky" to me refers to a person who enjoys sexual acts and activities that are outside the mainstream, but only to a certain extent. swingers, people who like to be tied up and tickled, people into light spankings, etc. i would not consider myself to be "kinky", because for one i view kink as mutual sexual fun, and sex is not about fun or enjoyment to me. secondly, i think many of the things i desire and engage in go beyond kink to perversion, which is why my Master and i proudly refer to ourselves as perverts. the difference being, a kinky person may have sexual needs and desires that are not 100% socially acceptable, but no one is going to lock them up for what they do. the same cannot be said for a pervert.



darkinshadows -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 1:04:11 PM)

quote:

Try getting found.

The first word in the statement was "often."

Did I hit a sore spot? Sorry.


OK - not sure what thats all about, I am just asking a simple question.

I cannot understand from your sentance before if you are saying that the person who dislikes the label is the person harbouring the prejudice or the one who says the word is harbouring the prejudice. Maybe you are infering both? I am having difficulty seeing how 'often' is supposed to assist me? I thought it would be helpful to me to ask. If you do not wish to reply, that is your choice - but I do not see how my question leads you to think you hit a sore spot, so there is no need to apologise?

Peace and Love



JustaTop -> RE: Vanilla vs Kinky (10/9/2005 1:11:16 PM)

I know stef,I was trying to point out why I took umbrage with the term,vanilla is actually a wonderful flavor. But that doesn't seem to be the connotation attached to it.

And tedium and being bored are part of life-it's not 24 7 excitement is it?

Mundane simply describes the world we all live in,not a lot more. Others seem bent on escaping that world,and I have to wonder why that is.



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