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~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 7:58:05 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
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From: St George Utah
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THIS IS LONG!!! BUT WORTH THE READ
 
Civility and Incivility in the Scene:
By Chris M [Black Rose of Washington DC] and Lady Medora [New Orleans Power Exchange] (The authors hope that everyone and anyone will send this through any boards you belong to including the authors names).


One of the most grave and inexplicable problems facing our community in general is the continued presence of downright rudeness. It takes many forms: gossip, arrogance, slander, ingratitude, interpersonal cruelty, Rumor-mongering, the propensity to snub, shun or belittle, a refined Sensitivity to slight paired with strident disregard for how ones actions And words effect others. It is astonishing, and terribly sad, how poorly we Get along from the viewpoint of interpersonal relationships. Why a community like ours, whose members strive for a mature outlook on power, consent and tolerance should feud with such violence and monotonous regularity is a true mystery.


In our community, we see behavior one would never dream grown adults could stoop to. We have seen SM groups who ought to get along fine, bicker endlessly and mindlessly. We have seen "leaders" whose mission appears to be the personal demolition of others whose contributions to the community might challenge their own. We know good people who have left the scene because of the cattiness, clique-mentality, and deliberate un consenting meanness. This propensity, often called "Tops disease", is by no means limited to dominants. It is nationwide in scope affecting virtually every group we have visited in our travels.


It isn't hard to imagine a universe where this kind of behavior never occurred at all. Aggression, power and consent, to say nothing of etiquette, are concepts SM folk deal with all the time. The BDSM community has made great strides in developing and documenting a wide variety of safe SM practices, protocols and standards for negotiation and play. Yet, strangely, the bickering, bitchiness and backstabbing goes on unabated. The last two Black Rose election cycles, have produced virtual demolition derbies of friendships over seemingly trivial issues. TES went through a similar bloodbath several years ago, in the wake of their 25th anniversary celebration. And many small groups have closed, not because of legal persecution, fiscal mismanagement or lack of membership, but due to jealously, power struggles, and malicious gossip. The wounds inflicted by incivility exceed any damage perfumed in consensual dungeon play and the emotional scarring that uncivil behavior leaves on its victims lasts longer than any bruise.
You might guess that the worst of this behavior comes from scene novices but you would be wrong. Beginners, usually eager to fit in and make friends, typically deport themselves well. The worst of this behavior comes from people who have been in the scene for years. People with experience, with play partners, with contacts, are often the most judgmental,least generous, most easily-offended, readiest to slander others. It is strange,but over and over we have seen seemingly friendly newcomers arrive in the scene, become avid pupils of our craft, grow into competent players, then unexpectedly mutate into arrogance, self-importance and interpersonal ruthlessness. Many leave the community in bitterness, anger or disgrace. The civility question may play a role in the scene's curious lack of people of color, who understand discrimination and hostility when they see it, and feel unwelcome. It hurts our leather brethren, demolishes friendships, breaks the spirit of our volunteers, cripples social groups, invites retaliation, and weakens our claim that SM is practiced by emotionally healthy, well-adjusted people. Why are we doing this? What can we do to stop it?


THE SCOPE OF THE PROBLEM: WHAT IS INCIVILITY?
We will go straight to examples. By no means exhaustive, here are some categories of incivility we encounter in the scene.


The Empathy Gap: This is subtle, but actually lies behind much uncivil behavior. Not so much the presence of hatred or dislike, but an absence of empathy and kindness towards other members of our SM community. In a better world, we would all actively welcome strangers, extend cordiality, start up conversations, feel a little compassion towards others like ourselves. But, more often than not, people feel nothing in particular towards people they meet in the scene. This "inner nothingness" sets the stage for much of the uncivil behavior we find in the scene.


Gossip: We all do it, and yes it can be loads of fun catching up on all the latest. Plus, gossip serves a valuable purpose when inquiring about someone you may be interested in playing with. by scene standards, it is not uncivil to conduct good faith peer review while inquiring about someone's play style, experience, and reputation. But gossip conducted with the intent to harm, or passing along dubious or inflammatory rumors is behavior that hurts the scene. In gossip, as with other things, there must be some sense of proportion. Gossip can also violate the confidentiality of individuals, possibly subjecting them to dangerous and unnecessary risk. Both truth and privacy are cardinal principals in the scene, and reckless gossip damages both.


Clique Politics: To have a circle of friends is a good thing, but not when the goal is circling the wagons to shut out people who "don't fit in" In the same way that benign sharing of information can be amplified into vicious, destructive gossip, maintaining cliques whose purpose it is to weaken and ostracize others, hurts the community as well as the individuals excluded. Ultimately, clique players make so many enemies that they themselves are resented or unwelcome.


Sweet and Sour: A clique politics tactic: Some people make extravagant show of how close and loving they are to their circle of friends, hugs, smiles, introductions glowing compliments, in part too maximize the sting inflicted against perceived outsiders, who are refused even the time of day. A stock move among catty sorority girls during rush week, (the Amish call this shunning) it's embarrassing to see how many grown men and women use "sweet and sour" to isolate and hurt individuals whose feelings and esteem they regard as unimportant. This truly nasty habit creates "us and them" fissures, that fragment the community, hurt feelings and invite retaliation.


Chicken Hawk Syndrome: With a constant influx of SM beginners, some attempt to acquire play partners under the guise of "mentoring". Chicken hawk syndrome includes strong come-ons, boastful presentation of ones own experience and skill, sometimes in trashing other people, sometimes attempting to isolate new people from the presence or influence of others, all in the name of "education", or at least active attempts to recruit them into their clique of preference. While there is nothing wrong with expressing interest in someone (new to the community or not) it is dishonest to couch your interest in terms of education. For new people we advice you to take your time in choosing exclusive mentors if you feel the need to do that at all, and ideally to form relationships with a circle of friends and not to rely on just one point of view.


SM Psychodrama: High volume yelling matches, absurd conspiracy mongering, unbridled venom towards community peers...Does any of this sound familiar? Here's a test: If such behavior would get you fired from a professional workplace, please leave it at home.
Failure to separate role from reality: We are an imaginative bunch (witness the number of science fiction fans, and Ren-fair enthusiasts in our midst) and this is both good and bad. Some take the view that the scene is a place their fantasy become reality, raising the specter of unrealistic expectations which can infringe on safety, consent even sanity. Someone who prides herself on being an unreasonable, demanding bitch in scene should always watch to draw a line between what is appropriate in scene and into daily life, even if they consider themselves "lifestyle".


The Dom=Dickhead syndrome: While some dominants are true artists cultivating a gourmet's appreciation of pleasure, pain and power, others are mere peevish control queens, itchy for a chance to criticize, get belligerent, boss others around. Still others, new to the community (but not to Gor novels) make the classic error of equating their sexual dominance with an overbearing, overreaching manner dominated by virtue of their presence at a SM event. Regardless of how dominant you are within your consenting relationships (and more power to ya!), you can no more "assume" consent in your interactions with others, than you can in an SM scene. Dominants who assume its okay to boss others around, and demand subservient treatment, demanded rudely, are making the classic newbie error of assuming its okay to touch or grab others bodies without out asking.


The Realness Police: In which everyone assumes that your SM should closely resemble theirs. Scoffing at scenes for being too mild, too heavy or too.whatever. One particularly odious habit is the loudly proclaimed belief in those great SM unicorns the "true dom" (" true doms never bottom...being a true dom means never having to say your sorry, etc.") or "true submissive" ("If you were a TRUE submissive you would do X for me, let me do Y to you, take it in stride while I waltz off and do Z.")


The Imperial-Imperious confusion: Some scenefolk, in an effort to appear imperial (kingly, of high standard, worthy of respect) conduct themselves in a manner that is imperious (overbearing, bossy, judgmental). A surprising number of scene-folk begin this confusion after a few years in the community, as they assume leadership positions, or when they decide that it is time they were recognized as authorities, if not superiors. While many feel that imperious behavior demonstrates expertise, importance and intelligence, in truth it almost never fails to alienate potential friends and play partners and make the offender look bad.
While pecking order tactics like these are fine for beings with the intelligence and spiritual depth of sparrows and chickens, in humans they are shallow, unkind and run counter to the spirit of "safe sane and consensual." Furthermore, people will not continue to support and tolerate people who treat them badly. Even so, unwise bystanders, occasionally reward this kind of boorishness with attention and respect, making our collective problem worse. New people see this behavior in community leaders and players of high prominence and emulate it, believing it to be proper, accepted or connoting high status.


Expert-itus: (a variant of the previous point) the state of confusing ones own expertise with the ability to pick nits, and find faults in other people's play, demeanor, protocol, motives. While sharing scene knowledge is generally a good thing, it can be, and often is, overdone. Go easy on the free advice.


WHY DO WE DO IT?
In fairness, we don't want to suggest that leatherfolk are inherently rude people. The scene, as wonderful as it can be, contains many subtle and seldom discussed "stress factors" that contribute to uncivil behavior. Like water over a stone, these stress factors wear on the nerves year after year, thus setting the stage for impatience, irritation, depression and the empathy deficit we have already discussed.

  • The scene is a small world, and quarters are close, closer than we might like sometimes. Because BDSM is an interest that selects at random, we often find ourselves spending a lot of time with people we might not otherwise choose as friends.
  • The scene is an intensely intimate place, we express our inner fantasies and fears, sometimes share partners, see each other nude, watch each other cum...Is it any wonder people are sensitive about how we are treated by others?
  • Because these practices are incredibly diverse, we find themselves in the occasional presence of activities that make us uncomfortable. The scene is a strange place and it takes a while to adjust. (And some things you may never get used to.)
  • The pressures of closeting: The pressure of maintaining a secret life, of hiding your leather life from friends, colleagues, and family adds a constant overlay of tension to daily life. Scene folk have to manage the presence of fetish contraband including toys, clothes, literature and erotica whose discovery might be catastrophic. The risk, real or perceived, can encompass loss of employment, of friends, of family, even custody of ones' kids.
  • Jealousy, loneliness and competition for partners are facts of life. People without play partners may become unhappy or angry. People seen as getting more than their share can trigger insecurity and resentment. Even people with partners may see threats around every corner.
  • The scene, like any fringe group, attracts its share of eccentrics and outcasts, some fascinating and agreeable, others less so.
  • Newcomer na?vet?: New people unacquainted to the scene's protocols occasionally touch, grab or conduct themselves in an inappropriate manner. Although individuals typically learn to deport themselves over time, the constant influx of newcomers means newcomer naivete is a constant, grating issue.
  • The realities of the party circuit: It is a hard fact of scene life is that most parties are private and their invite lists finite. For every guest invited there are twenty left outside. The guest list is dictated by what the hosts can afford, their circle of friendships, the size of their home and many other factors. But it still stings to hear about a party without getting an invite. And it happens all the time.
  • EMAIL (the medium of choice for many SM participants) : Without a friendly face or modulations of human speech, text encounters can be easily misstated/misunderstood. Couple that with the sometimes blunt writing style of emailers everywhere, the added gravity of the written word and the ease of escalating a private remark into public rebuke with a misplaced keystroke, and you've got the makings for an online food fight. SOME THOUGHTS ON WHAT YOU CAN DO TO FIX IT
    One of the more sobering aspects of the list above, is that there really are no easy solutions to any of these problems. The scene is small, people are sensitive, invite lists are short, and we really do have some truly eccentric people who will continue to behave eccentrically.
    But there is room for hope. We do a good job of establishing, and enforcing, play standards to make SM safe and hot. We are improving all the time as educators of play practices. But, interpersonal conduct outside of the SM encounter itself, has not been made a priority and its probably time it should be. We must recognize civility (defined in part by the examples in this report) as a threat to the health of our community, and commit ourselves as individuals, to improving our own behavior first.
    We must extend civility, decency, care and concern beyond our personal circle to members of the community at large. This doesn't mean we have to be everyone's bosom bud, but that concern for others is a priority instead of the non-issue it is for many at present. We are not talking about sainthood or communism here. The goal is not to stand around a campfire in a ring, holding hands singing Kumbaya. But if we all improve our behavior, and extend our compassion by ten percent, we will be living in a completely transformed universe.
    Secondly, through mentoring and our education programs, we must elevate civility as a requirement for our leaders and citizens. While scene etiquette (a subset of civility), is an SM staple, it deals mainly with deportment, protocols and standards of interaction, and doesn't address the deeper issues of cultivating compassion, tolerance and awareness, towards our SM brethren. These are tougher ethics-driven issues often without simple answers.
    And, though vocal, it is a minority of scene-folk who do the worst of this callous behavior. Most want a scene that is friendly and supportive. Many are willing to work to make it so (hopefully you too if you've read this far). And though the gossips, scolds and assholes among us often succeed in hurting their intended targets (and incidentally, our community), their greatest causalities are ultimately their own reputations.
    Remember that we are all brothers and sisters in a community no matter how diverse. If we behave like we care about and support one other, we will all find ourselves, by definition, in an environment that is more caring and supportive.
    Improved civility should presented as causal to the following desirable conditions: stability of friendships; respect of peers; trust of potential play partners (civility means stability); strengthens ones personal network of contacts; supports the position that SM is practiced by sane, well adjusted people; elevates fairness and justice (which are eternal) as the coin of the realm as opposed to popularity and bureaucratic clout (which are fleeting and can vanish at any moment); strengthens the community and makes it healthier; raises the comfort quotient for newcomers.


    A PROPOSED APPROACH: EXTEND SSC INTO INTERPERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS
    Strive as individuals and organizations to extend "safe, sane, and consensual" into the arena of interpersonal conduct. So lets turn the laser beam of SSC onto our civility concerns and see what it tells us: Uncivil behavior is nonconsensual: Unless assured, otherwise good manners and general kindness should be the coin of the realm. To do less is to engage someone without their consent. Doms should restrict their dominance to those who have consented to it. Submissives who pester others with unsolicited subservience are likewise in violation. And nonconsensual dominance in the name of "mentoring" doesn't wash either. Gossips and scolds should likewise consider their behavior in terms of consent. Subjecting someone to a tongue lashing or a gossip campaign is really no better than drawing out a flogger and hammering away at them without warning.
    Uncivil behavior is not safe: Cruel, thoughtless behavior can damage hurt people, deeply, for as long time, and that cannot be called safe. In the same way that humiliation can be more damaging than physical pain, the emotional harm inflicted from incivility may far exceed what you intend. Unsolicited advice can come across as cutting, and judgmental. Incivility also sets a diminished community standard for others to follow, making incivility more acceptable and social environment suffers often scaring mature decent people away, and can in time bring a group to its knees. Small acts of rudeness, or disregard, even if only perceived as such can balloon up into clique wars.
    And if the well being of your intended victim means nothing to you, consider this: If you make trouble for people, chances are it will come back to haunt you later on. People have a way of reciprocating behavior. Be nice and people will be nice back. Be a jackass and that's how others will see AND speak of you. This is a small world and if you screw someone, you are handing them a motive to get you back later. Even if you are queen of the in-clique at present, no one controls the future and, over time, the leather gods have a way of evening things out. The community is close, memory is long, and paybacks are a bitch. For this reason alone, uncivil behavior is unsafe to you.
    Uncivil behavior is not even all that sane: For years many of us felt we were solitary freaks before finding this community. To reinforce feelings of rejection in our brothers and sisters by deliberately withholding human decency, or subjecting them to deliberate hardship, is just not defensible. People who find themselves helpless to resist clashing with or inflicting imperious behavior on their scene fellows, would do well to begin some serious soul searching and perhaps seeking out the help they need.
    A lot of uncivil behavior is retaliatory. Someone does something that hurts or offends you prompting an aggressive response. Unfortunately this may be exactly how it looks to the person you just dissed. If you find that your actions and behavior are building up to a feud, it is a great idea to apologize for your part in the situation and disengage from the conflict. Furthermore, the long term gains from uncivil behavior are so meager, and the costs so high that it really does not pay for people who hope to stay in the community for some time. (Even if they win a short term victory.)


    APHORISMS
    Taking care of your community. Take care of its members. Agree to disagree. you don't have to dis just because you dislike. Civility demonstrates stability. Piss off a bigot; be nice to a leather person. Imperious does not mean imperial. SSC is always in effect, whether or not a scene is in progress. Resist the urge to reward slanderous gossip with your attention and involvement -it's not consensual, and not safe, even it's sanity is questionable. Tithe: give ten percent more in kindness appreciation gratitude, forgiveness. Never assume Safety. Never assume Consent. SM does not stand for Super Man - nobody is perfect and everyone makes Mistakes. Be willing to concede the point if you have been uncivil. Being willing to fess up, and apologize, makes you stronger, not weaker. Always try to be the voice of sanity and reason. Incivility is uncivil, whatever the excuse. Try to maintain perspective. Maintain a healthy sense of humor. True wealth is the ability to give kindness. Never forget your pleasure. Acceptance is voluntary, tolerance is mandatory.

    _____________________________

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    Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term
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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 7:59:09 PM   
    SteelofUtah


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    I am not really PROMOTING this Thread I brought it here for Discussion.

    Thank you

    Steel

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    Just Steel
    Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
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    For the Uber Posters
    Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 8:03:57 PM   
    Leatherist


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    Jesus wanted this too.

    Watch how most of his alleged followers behave.

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 8:28:36 PM   
    BitaTruble


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    ~FR~

    Even though my eyes started to glaze over somewhere around the fifth paragraph, I did read the entire essay. Those who are civil already lead by example and don't need to read such a post and those who are uncivil just won't care and the post won't do any good. Over all, it was five minutes I should have spent reading about knife play or something else which really matters to me. ::shrug:: Content wise, it did nothing for me so the fact that I believe it's poorly researched, poorly written and poorly executed is probably moot. Too much police and kumbaya and One True Way (triple threat, guess that's a feat or something) despite its protestations to the contrary.

    YMMV

    Celeste

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 8:32:15 PM   
    LuckyAlbatross


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    Chris M is the irony of the entire thing- if there is one scene person who epitomizes the rule of "I can show you fifty people who say this guy is awesome and to be respect, and fifty people who say this guy is a loser and abuser" it's Chris M. 

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 8:39:58 PM   
    ResidentSadist


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    I love the stereo types and all the rudeness problems listed in the first paragraph but they aren’t exclusive to the BDSN community.  The BDSM community seems on par with just about any other community in my opinion.  In fact, the collarme forums seem less catty than most other forums. 
     
    I was a moderator for a video game forum that had 80,000+ members and they were more vicious and snobby to “noobs” that asked the “same old questions” than most here at collarme.  Most internet forums that share knowledge are polluted with competitive rudeness, “forum trolls”, “post whores” and “drama queens”.

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 8:40:56 PM   
    Leatherist


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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ



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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 9:47:50 PM   
    MzHard


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    bored by the 2nd paragraph
    *yawhn*

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 10:09:16 PM   
    NakedOnMyChain


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    Bravo!  That hits quite close to home at the moment, especially in my local community, by which I mean more than one group in central and northern Indiana.

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/14/2008 11:41:56 PM   
    DaggerDom


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    "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." 

    It's a piece of whiney crap.

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 4:35:53 AM   
    DesFIP


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    Basically it boils down to why don't people magically stop acting like people when they get into the 'scene'. These are things people do, if you can't deal with it then stay home. Like people who complain about office politics but 'other than that' they love their job. Anytime there are two people together there will be disagreements and clashes of personalities. Deal with it.

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 5:51:16 AM   
    SailingBum


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Leatherist

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ




    I got the warm fuzzies from one of the comments on you tube.  " Somebody needs to get up and smash that guitar over Joans head".

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 7:19:48 AM   
    Leatherist


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    I always had other fantasies about what to do with "singing nuns"

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 7:23:28 AM   
    Dnomyar


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    ResidentSadist. About the comment that there is little cattyness here.

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 8:07:19 AM   
    CreativeDominant


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    I read through the whole thing and agree with some of what has been said but like everything else in life, there is a bit too much of "Can't we all just get along?".

    Anytime you put this many people together, there are going to be conflicts and diversity training isn't going to help nor are pleas for civility and courtesy and patience and understanding and communication.  Those can work within your dynamic and maybe, to a lesser extent within your circle of friends.  But a club can put up rules that states that these are to be followed and you will have those that break the rules.  You are always going to have those who look upon softer play as "kinky vanilla" and those who look at harder play as "downright insanity", you are always going to have those who look at any speaker who speaks nationally or internationally as deserving of the title "master"/"Sir"/"Ma'am" even though that person may be an asshole in his daily life to those around him and treat others than his admirers with disdain while ignoring the guy/gal next to them who quietly controls their own lives, has the love of friends and kin and whose dominance comes from within and has no need of a stage to present it upon.  You are always going to have those who think they are subbier than thou or domlier than thou and who have no problem telling you where you are wrong and, except in general terms, how good is their advice unless they have the ability to direct it specifically to your dynamic and still make sense? 

    While the really good, loving side of me can appreciate the sentiments expressed and even go along with them in my world, the part of me that deals with the public every day...the part of me that deals with doctors attending my classes or my friend's classes and acting like school kids when it comes to things like signing out early while wanting me to count them as there or wanting to make sure I remember to get their hours turned into the state boards (I've been doing this part of my professional life for 10 years now folks) realizes that people are what they are.

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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 9:33:18 AM   
    LadyPact


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    I appreciate you putting up the article, Steel.  It was a long read, but thank you for the trouble in putting it up.

    While I agree with some of the basic principles, I can't say I swallow the whole thing hook, line, and sinker.  Sure, we as a human race can always be more civil to each other, but it doesn't mean we're going to feel all goodness and joy about everyone we ever encounter.  There are always going to be people we don't particularly care for that we're mixed with.  I fully admit that there are some that I have met that the best I can do is a courteous hello at the beginning of an evening, and wish them well at the end, with no more need to speak with them in-between. 

    That bit about thinking of SSC extending into personal friendliness, it seems to Me, would work both ways.  In other words, if I don't particularly care for a person, I should have just as much reason to withdraw from interaction as they should have.


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    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 9:41:10 AM   
    Madame4a


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    I was wondering when this was written, is it recent?  I'm guessing its somewhere on the BR website...

    have to agree with LA here on Chris M -- I find it funny he should write are article like that... and I'd guess, given the laundry list of stereotypes -- he probably fits a few of them... and I'd guess we all do at some time or another, there are too many not to

    In the end, this is one of the reasons I stay away from the groups -- sure I join, and attend stuff, but I don't take on the leadership stuff -- NO MATTER the reason the volunteer organization is formed (SM, Feeding the Homeless, Educating Gnomes) you will always have this stuff.  In addition, you will always have some of the least qualified people taking on certain jobs -- its the nature of volunteer positions.

    I actually don't think its all that bad these days, unless you become part of the inner circle -- and I've found several of those people to be very elitist...

    (in reply to LadyPact)
    Profile   Post #: 17
    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 9:47:00 AM   
    NakedOnMyChain


    Posts: 2431
    Joined: 11/29/2004
    From: Indiana
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: DesFIP

    Basically it boils down to why don't people magically stop acting like people when they get into the 'scene'. These are things people do, if you can't deal with it then stay home. Like people who complain about office politics but 'other than that' they love their job. Anytime there are two people together there will be disagreements and clashes of personalities. Deal with it.


    You're right, of course, but that's no reason for people not to try to act better.  I believe the article's advice was a step in the right direction.  Sure, people won't always get along.  It happens.  Should they try?  Of course.  Being a fallible person doesn't excuse bad behavior.

    _____________________________

    "Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
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    (in reply to DesFIP)
    Profile   Post #: 18
    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 10:10:25 AM   
    SteelofUtah


    Posts: 5307
    Joined: 10/2/2007
    From: St George Utah
    Status: offline
    See I read this and at first I litterally said "Welcome to Fucking Wonderland Alice"

    But then I thought about what was being presented and I have changed my mind a little bit which is why I put this up in the first place.

    This is NOT supposed to be a TRUCE or a Proclamation it is a Call to RESPONSIBILITY!!

    Most of what this says is "Don't be a Douche Bag just because you can be" It says that Masters can often get caught up in thier own Pompas Bullshit and come off as Arrogant Jackasses. Now The part that got me is that much of this behavior is created in the "Provong yourself" stage where you feel the only way you can be taken seriously is to blindly and consistently march to the beat of your own drummer.

    Now where I believe cutting your own path is a GOOD thing I also believe that being a Douche Bag while cutting that path still makes you a douche bag.

    I see this LONG LONG Article as a Call to Doms to Drop the Scene Arrogance and take the time to treat people like people.

    I think about the people I do and don't like in the scene and I wonder why I do or don't like them and as a general rule every last one of them can be defined by how they carry themselves. I like certain Arrogance, but only when it is backed up by behavior and knowledge, the Arrogance that makes me dislike someone is when I am supposed to just accept that they know what they are talking about.

    WE ALL KNOW THE TYPE I AM TALKING ABOUT (This applies only to Real life Munches and Parties) The Person who is always sitting and talking about everything they know, They NEVER scene and when they do they do primarily Mind Fuck Sadism which requires little skill or knowledge other than that as it applies to thier target. Rarely do the SHOW what they know they simply expect everyone to accept that they are HARD CORE. These people TALK a good game but rarely do you see them actually play that game.

    SO this article actually made me think about why I don't like them and what it came down to was that I feel that since I had to prove myself time and time and time again before I felt I was accepted that everyone else should have to do this too. The question is is this process a Positive one or does it just make people jaded?

    We all have different upbringings in BDSM some people it went smoothly, other people's stories make Dante's Inferno sound like a childrens story, no matter how you look at it you are stuck with the knowledge that each is only important to the individual and all this article asks is that the Individual take into account how thier actions affect others as well as the community at large and if they are necessary.

    On this board I regularly hear people say "It's Not MY job to babysit the newbie." or "Why should I coddle the world?" and My point is what point does it serve to put them down or treat them poorly because they don't know something YET. At times it seems we forget there was a time we didn't knwo what something means or what something was all about.

    Now on the principal of purpose I do not completely agree with this Thread it is in all honesty written really arrogantly and I didn't care for that, but UNDER all that there is a concept that asks us to look at ourselves and ask if we are making the world of WIITWD worse or better by the way we carry ourselves. I for one have to think about that. I have to wonder if I am perpetuating some of the negative sterotypes that I am protesting against in the first place.

    I HONESTLY only saw this thread as food for thought.

    Steel

    _____________________________

    Just Steel
    Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
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    Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

    (in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
    Profile   Post #: 19
    RE: ~~Civility and Incivility in the Scene~~ - 4/15/2008 10:28:08 AM   
    kiwisub12


    Posts: 4742
    Joined: 1/11/2006
    Status: offline
    Speaking as being one of the newbies not so long ago, I was lucky enough to go to my first party with a dom , and another new sub - otherwise i may never have had the guts to go. Since then, when we get new-to-the-groups people i have tried as far as i am able to talk to them for a while, and introduce them around. There is truly nothing worse than feeling like the unwanted bump on the log, and see everyone else enjoying themselves.    Maybe they really aren't, but it sure looks like they are.

    sounds like common courtesy to me!

    (in reply to SteelofUtah)
    Profile   Post #: 20
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