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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:11:11 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
Sometimes, i think that part of my awareness of his dysfunction is inversely proportionate to the reality that i'm constantly scanning myself to see how fucked in the head i am.
i have no idea if this makes any sense or not.
Sorry,
Kali

Totally got it Kali. Amazing.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:12:23 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Perhaps her snatch is a tad bit loose?

Come again?

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:16:51 AM

lateralist1

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Thankyou Michael.
Those who are abused often go on to abuse.
Been there done that got the T shirt.
The trick is to find someone who will give you what you need without having to resort to abuse. Willingly and openly.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:30:34 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

what I am trying to get away from is my own addiction to fixing them

Fixing others is a distraction from fixing yourself.

I know and so is house work and cleaning the windows and gardening and writing. Some distractions are creative. Take writing for example.
Most of the most unbelieveable poets and writers I know use writing as both a distraction and balm.
Take the blues....just thinking that so much creativity is putting fuckedupness into a different form.
I know soneone who is extreme Aspergers. He has no emotional appropriateness except that which he mirrors from those around him. His basic emotional response is fight or flight.
Now if this guy lived on planet-Buddhist-happy-smiley-monks he would also ne happy smiley Buddhist monk. But he doesn't. So it's really an education in one's own behaviour to be around him as he cannot use emotional smokescreens AND he simply ups the anti, notches up the slightest rebuttal, but also notches up any happiness he perceives around him.
I know I know it would be a great world if there was no dysfunctionality. It would be a great world if there was no poverty and no mental ill health. NIRVANA is a worthwhile construct.
But well I'm just in my own heaven-hell see-saw. sometimes I get to sit in the middle of it and there is no movemet at all and sometimes it's a roller coaster. Sometimes I just want outta the fuckin tree that the damn see saw was carved out of.
But I would also like to add that what looks like my distraction might also be my way of doing the best I can to fix myself. Sometimes, according to choice theory at least, it doesn't matter WHAT one does as long as one does something,
At heart I feel that self-actualisation is possible for most of us except for those at the extreme of the human spectrum.....but thank god for them, their imperfections, their stories, their poetry, their blues and their attempts to throw off the shackles of their own imprisonment.
As for fixing others being a distraction from fixing myself? I will, since it feels like you would like me to, I will rise to the bait. No: sometimes it is simply fixing others and that's why supervision and continuous professional development ensures or should ensure at ;east that we don't project our own shit onto those we are in professional relationship with.
I am very clear about the difference between professional and personal relationships.
PS ed to add; just laying in the shadows waiting for a hook

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 4/16/2008 4:37:16 AM >

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:53:45 AM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

My sense of security is not worth your POSSIBLE crisis of conscience.

Oh I like that. And how many times have we seen people taut about how much they've changed, only to continue abusive and cowardice behavior behind closed doors?

I used to do that with my substance abuse. It's not really a deception of others as much as it is self deception. Sometimes you have small appifinies where you come up out of the water and get a little air. You want to change, but deep down inside, not really. You take steps and make some small changes, but they aren't the right ones. They have more to do with covering up the behavior, then fixing them.

You want to beleive you've changed and things are going to be different this time unlike all the other times (Hope is a double edged sword), but eventually the spiral begins again.

Most of the time it ended up becoming worse then it was before. Kind of like something I read once about hypnotism. Those who briefly come out a trance will go back in deeper than they ever were before.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 5:11:38 AM

thetammyjo

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My essay in Laura Antoniou's "Some Women" describes how I first became aware of the fact that I had picked up far more "abuser" behavior than "victim" behavior from my own past. It isn't something I'm proud and I won't lie and claim that once I realized it, my behavior totally changed, but I wrote it for a good reason: because I thought the kink community didn't address the issue of abuse.

It's really not something I'm currently comfortable on this site in copying and pasting, but if you have that book you'll know what I'm talking about.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 5:28:55 AM

TysGalilah

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Dysfunction finds someone who will enable them to stay that way. Enablers find someone with dysfunction to give them "purpose". Purpose = being the drama/illness/chaos that allows them out-ward focus, rather than looking inside themselves.

It feels comfortable. It even may LOOK functional.
Because each is looking to the other to find fault and/or blame for anything that doesn't function.

Worst thing anyone did for me was to tell me I was justifyed in feeling mistreated. What I needed to hear was >
stop blaming others for your unhappiness!, stop trying to fix what isn't yours to fix!...and begin looking inside for your own answers.
I finally heard that. took a group of people who were disengaged from my persona. Didn't know me from a hole in the wall and I didn't "know" them.
They told me straight up.>>
"we don't talk about OTHER peoples stuff here...we only talk about our own stuff.."
That's when my vision became clear.
When I looked at me ( had to, they wouldnt let me point the finger ), it suddenly no longer felt comfortable..no longer looked OK...I saw myself from outside my/our box of drama.

Then I had to take the hardest step ( thinking that "looking within" was pretty frickin tough already ) >..which was to be willing to be honest with myself and to change myself, rather than attempt to change someone else.

Victim can be a pretty cozy little place...sick as that is.
when we need other peoples attention to affirm the good inside us because WE don't/cannot see it.
We find someone who will treat us badly so that others around us who do really know how to love us will step up and tell us how wonderful, beautiful, worthwhile, and innocent we are.

Yellow always looks so much more vivid when contrasted behind by black or dark colors. I dont know exactly why I wrote that it just means to me that when you cannot see the good in you perhaps it is easier to "see" it, when you keep darkness aroudn to contrast it against?
did others see me more clearly> when HIS mistreatment illuminated my existence? shrugs..

I was all of the above....except innocent ...somewhere inside me I knew "something" in that relatiosnhip worked for me.
and sadly, I didn't feel wonderful ,beautiful or worthwhile unless someone else told me I was.

This is past tense..(many many years past tense thankfully.)
because I finally looked inside myself.

thanks for a wonderful post Michael and for having the courage, always, to tell it "how it is" ( from your perspective) not what someone else might want to hear.

Cyndi
no longer poor me
just me me : )

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 5:54:50 AM

lateralist1

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We find someone who will treat us badly so that others around us who do really know how to love us will step up and tell us how wonderful, beautiful, worthwhile, and innocent we are.
Except that when they don't we are left knowing that actually noone gives a damn.
As far as my family were concerned I deserved the beating I got from my fiance.
Does anyone deserve to be beaten?
How can anyone believe that their behaviour wasn't that bad when everyone around them assumes it was without knowing the facts.
As far as my parents were concerned I needed to be controlled and it was ok to do it with his fists.
I continue to try and work out what I did as a child to make them hate me that much.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 6:29:25 AM

zigzagzarf

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Sadly you can't tell an abuser that they're abusive. My first boyfriend was like that an when I would tell him he's abusive he just got worse. Finally after 4 long years I finally left him. Took him going to jail for a year to finally leave him. Best thing that ever happened. I got two good things from him though. My baby boy and the abilitly to see jackasses.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 6:58:31 AM

SireKane

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"I terrified them, intimidated them, and browbeat them."
These types of abuses are not unintentional. I think it would be hard for anyone who consistently acts in this manner to be unaware of this type of abusive behavior. If anyone is in a relationship, and repeatedly exhibits these types of behaviors to their partner they usually have to apologize for their actions after the fact. If a person does something that requires them to frequently apologize, they should recognize that their behavior is wrong. It's hard to be unaware of a pattern of apologies. Professionally, I counseled serial abuser and bullies. None of them were unaware that they behavior was wrong. The first step to recovery was to identify the reasons why they utilized these behaviors. Just my two cents.

Kane

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:19:02 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Ownedgirlie, you made my day. My favorite personal troll comming into my thread on how I have gotten over being passive aggressive and you throw in a little passive aggressive insult at me. One day you too will see in 3D how it isn't me that is "destructive" as you like to call me, but you. What is really ironic is how it is you who never comes out behind closed doors into our mutual BDSM community here in Sacramento, a community where I live my life as openly and as transparently as I do here. I will be the first to welcome you and buy you a cup of coffee.

Michael, if you choose to take my comment as a PA stab at you, then perhaps it resonated something personal within you. I was thinking of my ex husband when I said that.

But since you opened the door to this, I do find it extremely ironic that you would create this thread about how you've overcome your abusive ways, so soon after sending me an email full of personal attacks and insults, and ending it with expressing how good it felt to put someone in her place. And then to block a reply! Certainly classic.

To be honest, I haven't stepped forward to hang out with the local community for a couple of reasons. First, I was dealing with caring for a dying father, then caring for my mother, working full time, going to school, dealing with a divorce that won't end, and a whole bunch of other personal things that have taken up my time and energy. Second, when I looked into local munches, I just didn't find those I spoke to to be all that impressive as people (note "people" - not as doms, subs, switches, and any other orientation).

If you are sincere regarding that cup of coffee, I'll take you up on it. If it's just another way of luring me into a false conversation so that you can tell me what a piece of shit you think I am, no thanks.

One final question for you though - do you not see how peculiar it is that you're using the same intimidation tactics in your post to me, in the exact same thread in which you are claiming to not lose your cool and not attempt to intimidate people for saying things you don't like??

Oh, and regarding the "destructive" comment. Michael Dear, you used that comment on yourself, and I simply agreed with you. Go back and read that thread that got you so upset. Your own sarcasm backfired on you. You said "call me destructive" and I said ok, you're destructive. You might want to redirect your own wrath at yourself.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:30:03 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I wouldn't want her back and I am sure she feels the same way but despite the drama, the chemistry was real.

God... can I ever relate to that.... The Chemistry when it was good... was really good... but it wasn't love... it really was a Lust we enjoyed in the play... Play was Hot!!! but the chemistry outside of the play...... well... we were blowing up the science lab on a regular basis.

We never should of been together... it was a mistake to stay together... but yet... we beat that fucking horse till it looked like a pile of shit!!! It gets all over you in those situations... everyone gets dirty! I struggled to get it off me.. I still struggle at times with the memories... Yeah.. I hate her! but more so... I have hated myself even more. I knew better!....or so I thought..... So... I don't hate anymore.... it took awhile to get their.... but the memories still sting.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:31:03 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
small appifinies

MR, with love- "epiphanies"

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:33:55 PM

kiwisub12

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desperation and depression took me into therapy, and after a year i found out my therapist wasn't treating me for depression but codependency. Had to go and buy some books on that - and 2 years after that i was out of therapy, happy , healthy and sane - and in a marvelous bdsm relationship. I had no idea that there were men who were loving, kind, sensitive and cruel. Life is great - and i owe it to my therapist (who didn't stroke when i told him about the bdsm) and my hard work.
Very worthwhile three years.

been there , done that , got the t-shirt

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:34:42 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
small appifinies

MR, with love- "epiphanies"

DAMN IT!

You got me again!

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 4:37:48 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I used to do that with my substance abuse. It's not really a deception of others as much as it is self deception. Sometimes you have small appifinies where you come up out of the water and get a little air. You want to change, but deep down inside, not really. You take steps and make some small changes, but they aren't the right ones. They have more to do with covering up the behavior, then fixing them.

You want to beleive you've changed and things are going to be different this time unlike all the other times (Hope is a double edged sword), but eventually the spiral begins again.

Most of the time it ended up becoming worse then it was before. Kind of like something I read once about hypnotism. Those who briefly come out a trance will go back in deeper than they ever were before.

I've seen that with my brother's substance abuse. Most recently, I have seen it in my "ex's" (he won't sign the divorce papers) behavior since I moved away from him, 2 1/2 years ago. He convinced everyone he had changed. He kept trying to convince me that he changed. Yet the last time he was at my apartment (a year & a half ago) he became physical with me for the first time and once I filed for divorce, all those changes took a sharp hairpin turn and he became worse than ever. What was brilliant was him using my Dad's death to show everyone what a kind, compassionate and loving man he had become.

Meanwhile to everyone he meets, he has been wronged, and doesn't understand why he is so misrepresented, while in negotiation meetings with my attorney, he pulls no punches at all. It's an amazing thing to see.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 6:59:52 PM

DMFParadox

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I admit to a certain amount of confusion. There's physical abuse, verbal abuse, passive aggressive abuse... and then there's abuse by failing to follow through, there's abuse through failing to hurt when it's necessary, in the case of a cop that doesn't hurt you to intimidate you: he is, in some cases, not doing his job. When is a yell too loud? When does a hand become a fist?

To deny abuse exists is not my point; nor is it to say, 'be thou holy.' But I DO say not to be quick to judge, as LuckyAlbatross advocates. It may work for her individual case, but a society with a knee-jerk reaction to 'abuse' will find itself causing more abuse than it attempts to heal. As would one that would fail to act for fear of causing harm.

I, in my perhaps misinformed opinion, find the word inaccurate. Or rather, unspecific. Different types of situations that are harmful to one or both parties, caused by inappropriate action or inaction, vary greatly in detail yet fall under the same heading of 'abuse', with its odious collection of implications. This, I feel, is not an acceptable situation when by brandishing the term to the correct authorities, a person can alter--or effectively end--the life of someone else. By abusing, accidentally or intentionally, the word 'abuse.' Ironic, no? And sad.

Again, I don't advocate a lighter hand, or a heavier one. I advocate a smarter one. Better rules to judge by; better words to define with. Abuse has been overly stretched and pulled and reformatted to become laden with emotion, yet useless for identifying a specific solution to a specific problem. Especially for BDSM. We're already too close to that forest to see anything but trees.... calling all the trees the same name will quickly get us lost (if you'll accept my apologies for abusing that metaphor.)

For those that suffer, the pain is equally real. But I feel we do them an injustice by lumping them all together.

Paradox

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 7:10:39 PM

patwi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

A submissive may not always know the difference between true Mastery and someone who is simply dominating them - the Master may also not know. He may think that everything that He is doing is acceptable, and the sub may not give much feedback to show Him differently. Or, as in your case, by shouting at you it no doubt looked like they were just being bratty or acting out.

I was this person once, many years ago before I even -knew- about d/s. I was with a man who berated, belittled and controlled me, right down to being told what I was allowed to eat, giving me the nickname Yeti, and being made to join the gym after being told that I could look so much better if I made an effort. I think this is in part responsible for me struggling with submission so much - I look back on those days and wonder why I couldn't stand up for myself.

I really do hope he realized that he was abusing. I never did.

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 8:31:34 PM

Poetryinpain

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Michael, all I can say is, BSB is a lucky woman!

I have yet to see a post by you that isn't spot-on. And this one must have been difficult to write. I commend you.

pip, I will not be jealous

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RE: When I was abusive I was blind to it - 4/16/2008 9:35:18 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox
But I DO say not to be quick to judge, as LuckyAlbatross advocates. It may work for her individual case, but a society with a knee-jerk reaction to 'abuse' will find itself causing more abuse than it attempts to heal. As would one that would fail to act for fear of causing harm.

I'm not talking about society, I'm talking about my relationship.

I'm usually the LAST person to say "Oh he's such an abuser, get out!"

When it comes to ME? Fuck yeah, I will judge you instantly and you will be G-O-N-E before your pupils can dilate after blinking from the shock. Don't try to come back as you will be laughed at.

Why should I care about causing more abuse to an asshole who abused me? Consequences of their actions.

Interestingly enough, I've never been abused in any way. I have had people try to treat me inappropriately though. This is because I tend to be able to spot abusers pretty darn quickly and eliminate them immediately. This topic is discussing Michael's problems, evolution and how their ex's could have done better. I'm guessing if they took the hard line that I take, he'd have evolved a bit quicker and a bit earlier than he did.

Let's face it, if all females refused to accept any form of ACTUAL abuse, it would die out pretty darn quickly.

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