Converting nilla guys?

Converting nilla guys? (Full Version)

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khem -> Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 1:32:27 PM)
Hello...so I'm having a bit of a pity party right now (not to mention home sick from work). In the last few months, I've experienced such rudeness, flakes, and no-shows that I'm beginning to start doubting the whole BDSM community at large and male submissives in particular. I'm not going anywhere; I'm hopelessly bent. What I'm thinking of is maybe just "growing my own." Does anyone have any experience with finding men in nilla settings and detecting that potential? I have this fantasy of going on a few dates with a guy I think is vanilla, only to accidently open his closet to find a bunch of S&M gear. Am I nuts? Jaded? Is finding a slave outside of the lifestyle doable? Comments? Stories?

AAkasha -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 2:13:27 PM)
Yes, converting vanilla guys can be the way to go in some cases. Let's face it - most vanilla guys hear the woman they are dating is "kinky" and they are overjoyed -- they think that means lots of kinky sex and a woman who is a lion in bed. You will have to do some adjusting of their expectations, but it can be done. So much of a good relationship comes down to chemistry and genuine affection -- really, if you have that, and both people are outgoing and have a healthy attitude about sex, you can build on a vanilla relationship and make it wonderful. Where you will run into trouble is if you want to make a man 100% submissive all the time -- or, you have tastes that are extreme. I've introduced "vanilla" men to everything from hardcore pain to strap on sex, and the bottom line is always this -- they are into it if it turns the woman on, and they feel safe and can trust you. The other hurdle comes from mix-matched appetites. I have found some vanilla men are ok with kink on certain levels, but not all the time -- so they enjoy it as flavor, but can't get into it every single night. I tend to go in hunger "waves" too, anyway, so it was never a big deal, so long as they were ready to submit when I had a need to dominate. Look for men who are outgoing and open minded. You won't be able to change them into a submissive "personality" but if you are looking for chemistry, combined with a man who can be trained to submit, you may find some luck. Akasha

darchChylde -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 2:16:37 PM)
tries to find something to add to AAkashsa's post, gives up and goes back to the dishes

khem -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 2:45:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Yes, converting vanilla guys can be the way to go in some cases. Let's face it - most vanilla guys hear the woman they are dating is "kinky" and they are overjoyed -- they think that means lots of kinky sex and a woman who is a lion in bed. You will have to do some adjusting of their expectations, but it can be done. So much of a good relationship comes down to chemistry and genuine affection -- really, if you have that, and both people are outgoing and have a healthy attitude about sex, you can build on a vanilla relationship and make it wonderful. Where you will run into trouble is if you want to make a man 100% submissive all the time -- or, you have tastes that are extreme. I've introduced "vanilla" men to everything from hardcore pain to strap on sex, and the bottom line is always this -- they are into it if it turns the woman on, and they feel safe and can trust you. The other hurdle comes from mix-matched appetites. I have found some vanilla men are ok with kink on certain levels, but not all the time -- so they enjoy it as flavor, but can't get into it every single night. I tend to go in hunger "waves" too, anyway, so it was never a big deal, so long as they were ready to submit when I had a need to dominate. Look for men who are outgoing and open minded. You won't be able to change them into a submissive "personality" but if you are looking for chemistry, combined with a man who can be trained to submit, you may find some luck. Akasha I guess the part I don't see happening is more along the lines of a D/s relationship. Sure, most guys will take whatever sex they can get - kinky or otherwise. I just am a bit afraid of getting into an intimate relationship where emotions run high only to find out that I am a serious mismatch. Normally, I'd say communication would be key, but I honestly do not see how I could communicate what I want to a nilla guy (especially not early in a relationship). It's fairly normal with people into BDSM to do some serious negotiation fairly early on, but that doesn't seem to happen as often in vanilla relationships. I haven't dated outside the BDSM arena since I was a teenager, so I just have no clue about men and relationships outside the lifestyle.

darchChylde -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 2:50:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khem I guess the part I don't see happening is more along the lines of a D/s relationship. Sure, most guys will take whatever sex they can get - kinky or otherwise. I just am a bit afraid of getting into an intimate relationship where emotions run high only to find out that I am a serious mismatch. Normally, I'd say communication would be key, but I honestly do not see how I could communicate what I want to a nilla guy (especially not early in a relationship). It's fairly normal with people into BDSM to do some serious negotiation fairly early on, but that doesn't seem to happen as often in vanilla relationships. I haven't dated outside the BDSM arena since I was a teenager, so I just have no clue about men and relationships outside the lifestyle. Say, "Hey, i'm an in control kind of person; i'm not asking you to be a doormat, but if we're going to work long-term, we're going to have a little chat." From there, let them know the basics of what that means to you and let them know that they are free to ask any questions they may have. Negotiation is not just for BDSM, my vanilla relationships had negotiations in the beginning. "This is what i expect, and this is what i won't put up with. Do you have and thing to ask or add?"

khem -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 2:54:32 PM)
I guess I should restate that to read "I honestly do not see how I could communicate what I want to a nilla guy ... without having him run as fast as possible" [:D]

khem -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 3:01:14 PM)
I'm going to also add that I went out a few times with a random guy that picked me up in a bar. After making out with him a few times, he sat me down and said "the biting has to stop, do you realize how much you bite me?" [:D] I didn't see him much after that. Maybe I have this false notion that non-lifestyle men will be better mannered. I can see the flaw in such logic. I can remember saying to one of my Domme friends that "he was so well trained." She laughed at me and said "it's called being a gentleman."

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 3:03:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khem I guess I should restate that to read "I honestly do not see how I could communicate what I want to a nilla guy ... without having him run as fast as possible" [:D] Maybe this is just me being jaded, but I notice that men tend to be, on a whole, more likely to be sexually adventurous than women. I don't know if it has to do with that social stigma about men being the "studs" and women being obedient prissy-types, but whatever the case, you never know until you try, hehe. I think it'd be a lot easier for you to find a guy who's willing to give it a shot than if you were a guy trying to coax a woman into it. Personally, I love being the corrupter. I've actually brought several 'nilla people over to the "dark side." There's just something so deliciously bad about the fantasy of kidnapping a perfectly normal man and bringing him home, where I inflict all sorts of tortures and teases upon him until he's begging for more, more, MORE... ooooh yeah.

darchChylde -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 3:05:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khem I guess I should restate that to read "I honestly do not see how I could communicate what I want to a nilla guy ... without having him run as fast as possible" [:D] Sounds like a screening to me. If he spooks when you climb on his back, pick up and move on; eventually you'll find a horse that won't fight you when you ride him. Get this kind of thing out of the way as early as you think that there's a chance that you think he'll take. You may have to go through a number of men this way, but there's no substitution for being honest and up front.

khem -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 3:22:54 PM)
I think I am gasp afraid of rejection! I know, I know, it's a normal thing. In the lifestyle, however, not many people would call me a "sick freak" in a bad way. [:D]

darchChylde -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 3:34:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: khem I think I am gasp afraid of rejection! I know, I know, it's a normal thing. In the lifestyle, however, not many people would call me a "sick freak" in a bad way. [:D] You've got mail.

midgetmafiosa -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 3:41:48 PM)
I just recently converted one into a pet, and it's been a great decision for both of us. He said he never knew how to talk about how he felt and what he wanted with women before. So you never know until you try...and yes, I think women have an easier time broaching this subject than men do. Call it a double standard, but we do.

MsIncontrol -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 4:12:36 PM)
I will be the voice of disagreement. I guess if you want a mostly vanilla relationship with a little kink in the bedroom...a vanilla guy would most likely go for that. But realistically if you are looking for a long term D/s lifestyle relationship your probably barking up the wrong tree. When I was younger I did this to many a nilla boy and eventually it always had the same outcome. We both ended up with needs not being met. Of course, your level of BDSM kink and mine could be totally different. But what usually happened was I wanted to up the kinky ante per se and they were happy with the level staying status quo. For example, you can tie me up and fuck me, you can spank me and fuck me but you can can't tie me up and spank me if you don't want to fuck me. I also ended up always feeling like a freak and trying to water down my desires and it only ended up making me feel bad about myself. I think the internet and sites like this and B.com and such are okay if that is 10% of your search...but you also need to get out and meet people in real life. I met my wonderful , gorgeous, gentleman of a husband at a BDSM club demo. Neither of us went their looking for a date...but we met and nearly 10 years later we are going strong. There is nothing like having a partner who has similar needs, desires and understanding of your lifestyle. I know it is difficult, frustrating and lonely. But frankly, I would rather be alone than settle for something less than I wanted.

malloves69 -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 5:03:08 PM)
what converted me ? once my mistress started playing with my ass with her fingers [:)] boy she found a live wire there ..first it was fingers ..then butt plugs ..then dildos and vibraters [:)] then strapons and then bigger strapons [:)] you get a man to let go his inhibitions about ass play he will be putty in your skillfull hands at least i was ..great way to turn a vanilla guy into a submissive i think when the lady plays the dom and the man lets the woman have her way with him [:)] even to this day something about her fingers and my ass really sets me into the sub mode ..toy play is fun indeed but being fisted by her can a guy be anymore vulnerable ? love a lady in control [:)] mal

khem -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 5:40:29 PM)
I don't think I've ever seen mal post about something besides being ass fisted. Anyone? heh. Just saying.

midgetmafiosa -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 5:44:03 PM)
mal has a point, though. i've flipped a couple of vanilla guys just by giving them a good salad tossing. i don't ask, i just do, and if they don't want it, they can feel free to say no. never fisted a guy, though...sorry mal.

Luciferica -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 5:49:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: midgetmafiosa I just recently converted one into a pet, and it's been a great decision for both of us. He said he never knew how to talk about how he felt and what he wanted with women before. So you never know until you try...and yes, I think women have an easier time broaching this subject than men do. Call it a double standard, but we do. I second this, hubby was nilla to begin with, now he begs to be spanked, tied up, etc...He's actually better because he has no preconcived notions, and it's fun exploring his body in ways he wouldn't have thought of...

SixFootMaster -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 5:54:14 PM)
Hmm... do we mean "vanilla" as in "not interested in kink" or "vanilla" as in "has not yet explored kink but probably has had fantasies and ideas about it for at least a little while" Personally, if someone finds they have an robust enjoyment of things kinky, then they were never "vanilla" to begin with, just undiscovered. Six. (hoping to clear some semantic noise)

khem -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 5:55:04 PM)
I mean nill as in "unknown" and met outside the lifestyle.

SixFootMaster -> RE: Converting nilla guys? (4/16/2008 6:05:03 PM)
Point is you cannot "convert" a person who is not the least interested in kink, no matter how hard you try - in fact, your attempt is liable to do more damage than good. What you really mean is "induct" or something similar. Anyway, enough of a thread hijack.. back to the regular scheduled re-programming. Six.

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