UK local elections ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> UK local elections ? (4/17/2008 6:39:20 AM)

So, seeing as the politicians have suddenly taken an interest in the voter again, who you going to vote for, or are you going to bother?

And perhaps more importantly, who is likely to win and why?






LadyEllen -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/17/2008 6:49:28 AM)

Anyone but the Tories.
Labour stand no chance around here.
Our "hospital party" are falling apart.

I'm voting towards badly required electoral reform, local income tax to replace council tax and more local decision making.

E




meatcleaver -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/17/2008 6:54:36 AM)

Until local elected politicians can raise money locally and decide what they want to spend the money on instead of having to carry out government policy through edicts from Whitehall, local elections are pointless. Only 15% of local government funding doesn't come from Whitehall and most of that 15% is already ear marked for services the local government has to provide through central government edict. There is no such thing as local government in England, even though England desperately needs it.

Don't forget, Britain has the most centralised government in the developed world, Britain makes France look almost like a federal state!




Aneirin -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/17/2008 8:29:54 AM)

I am thinking for the first time in three years, I will vote, but make it a protest vote, cats protection league or something like that.

Maybe a wasted vote to some, but better than not voting at all.




RealityLicks -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/17/2008 8:55:59 AM)

The Mayor of London can raise funds but only in extremely limited ways.  However, the annual GLA budget of £3.3bn is not to be sneezed at and I will be voting for the incumbent.  For all his myriad faults, there isn't another serious candidate and I don't welcome blowing £3bn on some chancer's ego. 

Under our system, a low turn-out increases the likelihood of extremist parties grabbing the odd seat.  People die for the right to vote and their descendants stay in and watch telly instead?  Nah!




meatcleaver -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 1:48:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

People die for the right to vote and their descendants stay in and watch telly instead?  Nah!


Yeah, like people who voted Labour into power never expecting the Labour Party to take the country to war on a lie. People died because they voted but fortunately, mainly Iraqis.




RealityLicks -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 2:02:51 AM)

I have no illusions about the power of my vote, especially when considered in isolation. But do remember that, despite dragging us into this war, Blair was subsequently re-elected and so was Bush.  I registered a protest vote, knowing at best that people like me could only hope to dent a majority - not topple an MP. I believe that both at local and national level, these fuckers are going to try everything they can and the main cause is voter apathy :- we all docilely accept that we can expect no more of them and in life, you get what you expect quite frequently.




stella41b -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 3:42:06 AM)

On May 1st I'll be voting for Ken Livingstone to come back as London Mayor.

He might have his critics, but look at what he's achieved.

I'm happy to be part of the Loony Left..

I'm voting nationally Respect.. I would vote Labour but for the Iraq war. I refuse to vote for any party which accepts death and suffering of people as a justifiable means towards economic prosperity.




meatcleaver -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 3:57:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

But do remember that, despite dragging us into this war, Blair was subsequently re-elected and so was Bush.  I registered a protest vote, knowing at best that people like me could only hope to dent a majority - not topple an MP. I believe that both at local and national level, these fuckers are going to try everything they can and the main cause is voter apathy :- we all docilely accept that we can expect no more of them and in life, you get what you expect quite frequently.


Blair was re-elected by 25% of the total electrate and was re-elected because the alternative to voting Labour was just as bad. When given the choice between voting for shit or shite, many people decided not to vote, probably out of dispair.

Voting is not the issue in Britain, career politicians who believe in nothing but their own careers are an issue and I won't vote for someone's career. When enough people abstain from voting and take extra-Parliamentary action instead, the politicians will eventually have to get the message. But I admit, its not an easy choice to make or know what the best thing to do is. 




stella41b -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 4:15:59 AM)

How about this for an idea?

You vote for the person at the bottom of the list, the minority party. Doesn't matter who it is, you vote for them.

This isn't the sitting MP with the majority, it isn't his rival, no, you start at third place and vote for anyone below that.

That way you vote the lot of them - Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat - out of office, the whole lot of them. They're out of work, gone, finished.

You might end up with a Prime Minister called Cedric Ramsbottom, Jane Smith or Mohammed Siddique - but does it matter as long as it's someone who can run the country? You will probably end up with a coalition government made up of three or more parties and an opposition of anything up to twenty but you will also be giving Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats something to think about very seriously.

The chances are you will probably end up with a Respect/Revolutionary Communist Party coalition government headed by George Galloway with the BNP in opposition but to be quite honest after the past 29 years or so of having to deal with Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown I can live with that.




meatcleaver -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 4:26:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

The chances are you will probably end up with a Respect/Revolutionary Communist Party coalition government headed by George Galloway with the BNP in opposition but to be quite honest after the past 29 years or so of having to deal with Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown I can live with that.


Yep. after the lot we've had, voting in the Workers Revolutionary Party or the BNP sounds positvely like an act political sanity.




seeksfemslave -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 4:37:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Anyone but the Tories.
Labour stand no chance around here.
Our "hospital party" are falling apart.
I'm voting towards badly required electoral reform, local income tax to replace council tax and more local decision making.
E

LadyE: when describing the area in which you live you have consistantly  painted a picture of what could be described as a constituency that ought to be rock solid Labour. Then you post the highlighted bit.
To quote Jerry Springer...whats going on ?

As regards local income tax, stuff that, moderately well off pensioners like me will will lose out, so it cant be right. OK ?

adding; who would have thought it, Stella and Meatcleaver voting for the BNP. he he he he
They will be singing the praises of Bush/Blair next.




stella41b -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 5:36:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

adding; who would have thought it, Stella and Meatcleaver voting for the BNP. he he he he
They will be singing the praises of Bush/Blair next.


Me vote for the British Nutcase Party? Never...

Nor do I find something to praise Bush about.. or Blair for that matter..

We can paper over the cracks indefinitely I guess but there's going to come a day when it will all go pear-shaped. Then what?




Aneirin -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 5:50:30 AM)

I do agree with the words of  stella 41b, as to vote aimed at the bottom of the list. Why not the thought to vote to give a chance to an independant who believes as much to stand for election.

Time and time again, the same parties get in, be it red or blue, they are just the same. Nothing in this country will change, that is until the voter does realise it is their personal voting power that is keeping that which we want to rid.





seeksfemslave -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 7:12:29 AM)

quote:

As regards local income tax, stuff that, moderately well off pensioners like me will will lose out, so it cant be right. OK ?
Actually I am now wondering whether that is true. What with all those households where more than one is employed I might gain.
If so lets give it a try.

I agree with those who say that it is possible that the likelyhood of severe backlash is high here in the UK. IMO it will come from the Right not the softie Left.
Economic collapse will have to occur tho', not impossible considering the measures being taken right now to prop up the banking system.
How long pie in the sky politics can survive is anybody's guess.
I dont know. Not for ever I hope.




LadyEllen -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 8:01:04 AM)

Stella - I suggest you vote Lib Dem and not lump them in with the other two. We want electoral reform and the best way that will be achieved is to return a Lib Dem MP.

Seeks - the recent political history of the Wyre Forest constituency eh? We are the exception m'dear, and recognised as such by all three main parties. We're a semi-rural constituency and something of a dormitory town constituency too - this is where the well to do of the Black Country move, alongside lots of troubled areas. The Tories will always do well here because we're overstocked with upper middle class and those aspiring to that status, but the natural choice of those further down the socio-economic scale here has always been the Liberal party / Lib Dems.

For years, we returned a Tory MP but had Liberal local government. The Liberal party then became the Lib Dems nationally and locally here, but the rump of the former Liberal party remained; only here and in Liverpool (I believe) is the old Liberal party still extant.

Then to the surprise of many (especially the Tories, hee hee!) we then returned a Labour MP in 1997. However, him being under secretary for health and voting to close the local hospital didnt help his career any, and he was then dumped at the next election along with his party, which has never recovered here. We returned Dr Richard Taylor who had fronted a campaign for the "party which isnt a party" Health Concern, who also took over the local authority.

The good Dr is a good egg and has done what he can and achieved a few things in restoring services to the hospital. As such he's been reelected but will stand down next time, so he says. In the meantime, Health Concern has collapsed - they made a total hash of local government and are slowly imploding. They were replaced by the biggest bunch of fascists under the sun in the form of the local Tory party whose autocratic approach is not well received - the Tory leader of the council actually wrote in the local paper that the local electorate are pathetic for criticing Tory decisions.

The field is now wide open for the Lib Dems in colaition with the Liberals to regain the local authority here and at the next national election to take the seat - an effort in which both parties are engaged together behind one candidate. We stood aside and didnt put up a candidate against Dr Taylor from the start - since he was such a good candidate to take our shared issues to Westminster. Although he sits with and votes with the Lib Dems in the Commons, it may have been a mistake to stand down to allow him a free run, because its since then that Lib Dem and Liberal party fortunes here declined, which we put down to the resulting low profile stance we had - and the fortunes of the Conservatives have risen.

Labour dont stand a chance here. The Tories have to be gotten rid of, for their arrogance and their stupidity. By default that leaves our Lib / Lib Dem cooperative as front runners.

E




seeksfemslave -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 8:28:01 AM)

You didnt have to overdo it lol




LadyEllen -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 8:33:36 AM)

I'm involved in local politics at election time Seeks - you have to accept that I'm going to overdo it

E




seeksfemslave -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 8:38:21 AM)

I guessed as much, any chance you will end up on the council ?




LadyEllen -> RE: UK local elections ? (4/18/2008 8:43:17 AM)

Unless I mount a coup, not really - I'm not standing

E




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