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Level -> RE: Brigitte Bardot on trial for Muslim slurs (4/19/2008 9:05:08 PM)
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ORIGINAL: kittinSol
I'm merely pointing out that you are Eurobashing without full knowledge of the laws.
I would disagree that I'm bashing Europe; I have a deep respect for that continent, and have said so, many times.
(A quick aside: I once started a thread about what was good about America, and was stunned at the number of folks that could not, or would not, list a single thing.)
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You feel directly affected as a Christian over something that has absolutely no direct consequence over your beliefs.
I feel there is a double standard.
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Above, I have quoted three texts of law that show you how your right to religious thought and worship is protected in France. And there are more out there. I am not a lawyer, though in circumstances such as these, I wish I were.
It gets complex when you consider that French law is dependent upon European law. Freedom of expression is restricted by the law that protects the rights of individuals to not be beaten, killed, and generally discriminated against because of their origin, or ethnic origin, or colour, or religion. It doesn't mean you can't say what you like, but it does mean that if someone utters antisemitic insults in the middle of a university lecture, they will be probably be arrested. It does mean that the fuckers who desecrated a war cemetary a couple of weeks ago will go down for a bit (you remember the incident in question, I'm sure).
I do, and am hopeful they get their asses tossed in a jail cell.
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Don't you understand that the legislation which worries you so much is actually in place to protect your rights as a human being to worship as you see fit? If somebody published an article that said "All Christians stink and they murder their babies to make soup they feed to their pigs", they would get asked to stop.
I do understand, and believe the intent is well-meant. But words won't stop me, or a Muslim, from worshipping, nor will insults.
Call me a stupid, backwards, superstitious nut, and it won't keep me from practicing my faith. Threaten me, or lay hands on me, and that......... that crosses the line.
Living in a free society means we're going to be uncomfortable sometimes.
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The text below is of primary importance in this debate:
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Article R625-7 du code pénal (partie réglementaire)
La provocation non publique à la discrimination, à la haine ou à la violence à l'égard d'une personne ou d'un groupe de personnes à raison de leur origine ou de leur appartenance ou de leur non-appartenance, vraie ou supposée, à une ethnie, une nation, une race ou une religion déterminée est punie de l'amende prévue pour les contraventions de la 5e classe.
Les personnes coupables de la contravention prévue au présent article encourent également les peines complémentaires suivantes :
1. L'interdiction de détenir ou de porter, pour une durée de trois ans au plus, une arme soumise à autorisation ;
2. La confiscation d'une ou de plusieurs armes dont le condamné est propriétaire ou dont il a la libre disposition;
3. La confiscation de la chose qui a servi ou était destinée à commettre l'infraction ou de la chose qui en est le produit ;
4. Le travail d'intérêt général pour une durée de vingt à cent vingt heures.
Les personnes morales peuvent être déclarées responsables pénalement, dans les conditions prévues par l'article 121-2, de l'infraction définie au présent article.
Les peines encourues par les personnes morales sont :
1. L'amende, suivant les modalités prévues par l'article 131-41 ;
2. La confiscation de la chose qui a servi ou était destinée à commettre l'infraction ou de la chose qui en est le produit.
La récidive de la contravention prévue au présent article est réprimée conformément aux articles 132-11 et 132-15.
Translated:
The non-public incitement to discrimination, hatred or violence against a person or group of persons because of their origin or their membership or non-membership, real or supposed, an ethnic group, nation, race or religion is punishable by a fine as provided for contraventions of the 5th grade.
Persons found guilty of the offence under this article also incur the following penalties:
1. The ban on possessing or carrying, for a period of three years, subject to a weapon authorization;
2. The confiscation of one or more weapons with the convicted owns or in which he freely available;
3. The confiscation of the thing which was used or intended to commit the offence or thing which is the product;
4. The work of general interest for a period of twenty to one hundred and twenty hours.
The corporate entities can be held criminally responsible, under the conditions provided for in Article 121-2 of the offence defined in this article.
The penalties incurred by legal persons are:
1. The fine, according to the rules laid down in Article 131-41;
2. The confiscation of the thing which was used or intended to commit the offence or thing which is the product.
The recurrence of the violation with this Article shall be punished in accordance with Articles 132-11 and 132-15.
Why does it state "non-public"?
If it were worded to only include "incitement to violence", I could support it, kittin.
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If you need clarification... feel free to ring my bell.
The offer is appreciated. [;)]
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