RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism

RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 3:55:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream Interesting thread. I dont feel like I can really speak on this issue being a white chick. I can relate to the part about being poor though. Life is complicated and I personally find it creepy when someone lumps everyone together in a sort of, "If I did it, you can do it, just pull yourself up by your boot straps." In the background, undercurrent I hear/feel a lack of compassion. I sense a self-righteous superiority woven through a fabric of rage disguising itself as like common sense or something. I don't know about the superiority, but the rage? Yes, because it's felt here, too. quote: It has occurred to me more than once that Bill Cosby is not really black. He has stricken me on more than one occasion as a white man in a black man's body. I really dont mean to slander. He is a funny man but I dont know something about him I find discomforting and unreal. *There are blacks and* whites that would find those statements problematic. [8\|] But I thank you for sharing them, they're thought provoking. [:D]**

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 3:57:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Cosby is and has always been a racist. He hates the white man. At least, that's the feeling I've always gotten from him. Hi marie [:D] I wonder what about him made you feel that way?

lronitulstahp -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 4:33:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Cosby is and has always been a racist. He hates the white man. At least, that's the feeling I've always gotten from him. Hi marie [:D] I wonder what about him made you feel that way? all that damned pudding...it was so hateful

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 4:42:05 AM)
Anger and Pudding Pops? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kF3vuXbQQ

RealityLicks -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 4:44:48 AM)
If you play the theme tune to The Cosby Show backwards it says "Rise and slay your oppressor! Kill now! Kill now! Kill now!"

heartcream -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 11:30:19 AM)
quote: *There are blacks and* whites that would find those statements problematic. [8\|] But I thank you for sharing them, they're thought provoking. [:D]** Gosh, there is soooooo many things I could say that people would find problematic. It is why many times I dont say what I have to say on a topic.

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 4:11:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream quote: *There are blacks and* whites that would find those statements problematic. [8\|] But I thank you for sharing them, they're thought provoking. [:D] Gosh, there is soooooo many things I could say that people would find problematic. It is why many times I dont say what I have to say on a topic. Me too, at times. [;)]**

domiguy -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 4:19:01 PM)
It isn't always the parent/s that will determine the success of the child...Far too often it is the peer group. Sorry but it is true. It is a fact.

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 4:24:02 PM)
quote: juliet, I would differ in that sometimes it is the parents fault, to a degree. But there is no single answer to "why?", as far as I can tell. See, if you didn't have me on block, you would have seen that. [8D] You're right, DG, peer pressure can be a back breaker for a lot of kids.

Griswold -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 4:43:04 PM)
Actually, Cosby is an elitist, however, he's also preaching the gospel. It ain't brain surgery (let the flames begin) to realize that, statistically, black people don't do as well as whites (aren't we all equal?), whites don't do as well as Asians, and I'm not altogether sure who doesn't do as well as the next group...but it's pretty simple math; The folks that go to college, by comparison, do better than those that just finish high school. The folks that finish high school, by comparison, do better than those that don't. Those that sell and do drugs don't do as well as those who minimize their access to same...and those who stick around to raise their kids do better, as do their children, than those who leave (as do the kids whose fathers leave). Now who are those people? They typically fall in to a class and a race...and the statistics don't lie. Call me a racist...pick a name for me and anyone who espouses getting an education, staying to raise your children and staying off of drugs. It's not brain surgery...and it sure as hell ain't racist. We didn't get to a point where a black man is the presumed winner in a race for the Presidency...with a nation of racists...it simply couldn't have happened...the people therefore, who lose in this argument, are the ones who can't get away from the whole racist argument because they simply must continue to insist that anyone who says the above arguments are valid....are racist. It hasn't been true for decades (yes, I know...I travel extensively...there are places, even entire states...but as a whole...my father didn't own any slaves, his father didn't own any....and I sure as hell don't...it's over...and it has been for a very long time). The people who lose in this argument are the people who have to dive head first into this argument and insist that anyone that makes it...is certain that someone or some race "has to lose because of the color of their skin...or the definition of their beliefs". That argument sells soap, and as long as it does, it'll continue to make headlines. It's still pure, unadulterated, absolute, and with no contention, bullshit. It's a simple matter of wanting to win...and history shows, every time...those that want to win, regardless of color or religion...win. Every time.

RealityLicks -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 6:10:13 PM)
So where on this thread has anyone mentioned racism except you?

Griswold -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 6:39:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks So where on this thread has anyone mentioned racism except you? Oh....you mean, other than Cosby, which the OP referenced in the original post and what the entire premise of the post was about? I didn't run the numbers...if you'd care to do so, feel free. Here's a calculator: http://www.squarebox.co.uk/scalc.html

TheHeretic -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 6:42:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream quote: *There are blacks and* whites that would find those statements problematic. [8\|] But I thank you for sharing them, they're thought provoking. [:D] Gosh, there is soooooo many things I could say that people would find problematic. It is why many times I dont say what I have to say on a topic. Me too, at times. [;)]** Chicken.

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 6:49:29 PM)
I prefer "diplomat" [8D]

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 6:52:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Griswold quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks So where on this thread has anyone mentioned racism except you? Oh....you mean, other than Cosby, which the OP referenced in the original post and what the entire premise of the post was about? I didn't run the numbers...if you'd care to do so, feel free. Here's a calculator: http://www.squarebox.co.uk/scalc.html The term racist does get tossed around for epousing some of these things, if not on this thread, then in the "real world". Sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't.

lronitulstahp -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 7:14:59 PM)
Sometimes, when somone is describing something that uniquely happened to them...the description of said event is never quite vivid enough. The person describing the event will simply give up and say, "You had to be there". Quite often, i feel that however liberal minded or well intentioned many good people are, when it comes to being Black, particularly in America..."you had to be there". When race is the topic, i always get that "Oh shit!" feeling in the pit of my stomach. There are some exasperating things that happen on these boards sometimes. It sort of makes me feel like words can't always suffice. i think people that cry "racist" all the time, or that start out their ambiguously racist rhetoric with "call me racist if you want" usually are obsessed with race, and most often to the point where they are indeed racists. On another thread here, people actually looked back fondly on the good old days of the KKK, and i shook with anger for all the flaming i wanted to do...but then i thought, why bother? Anyone that far gone is a waste , already. i guess the thing that people won't get about Bill Cosby is that it is painful for a Black person to see so many Black people waste every single opportunity that they were lynched, beaten, sprayed with fire hoses, raped, discriminated, and killed to gain. It's not elitism, or racism...it's sorrow. And there are moments when you want to shake the fuck out of these wastrels and scream "wake up!!!" i know it's not unique to Black people..but honestly, "You had to be there...." *edited to add :forgive typos and lack of indentations...more of a rant thana well thought out thing...had to vent....

kittinSol -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/24/2008 9:00:18 PM)
I feel like hugging the hell out of you...

RealityLicks -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/25/2008 12:42:21 AM)
lronitulstahp, thanks for your post - I couldn't agree more. I'm so tired of people who are too "diplomatic" to share their reasoning on why proportionately more black people live in poverty than white people. One thing you can be sure of is that it will include some form of pathologising all black people with a particular characteristic. This "pathology" is not real and cannot be quantified but it exists in their minds for one reason: it allows them to feel better. So by extension, Cosby's rants allow them to feel better - that's why it got posted, as a result of another thread. There are certain debates that cannot be held with those who begin them unwilling to accept the truth. Don't feel you have to apologise for any venting, you deserve far more respect than you have received by many represented here and immeasurably more than they will ever receive. We still live in times when those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know.

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/25/2008 2:45:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp Sometimes, when somone is describing something that uniquely happened to them...the description of said event is never quite vivid enough. The person describing the event will simply give up and say, "You had to be there". Quite often, i feel that however liberal minded or well intentioned many good people are, when it comes to being Black, particularly in America..."you had to be there". While it's possible to put one's self in another's shoes, you're right, it's not the same as living in those shoes. quote: When race is the topic, i always get that "Oh shit!" feeling in the pit of my stomach. There are some exasperating things that happen on these boards sometimes. It sort of makes me feel like words can't always suffice. i think people that cry "racist" all the time, or that start out their ambiguously racist rhetoric with "call me racist if you want" usually are obsessed with race, and most often to the point where they are indeed racists. Trying to be clear, here; as Griswold stated something similar earlier, I hope he isn't one that you feel that way towards. I'd be verrrry surprised if he were a bigot. quote: On another thread here, people actually looked back fondly on the good old days of the KKK, and i shook with anger for all the flaming i wanted to do...but then i thought, why bother? Anyone that far gone is a waste , already. i guess the thing that people won't get about Bill Cosby is that it is painful for a Black person to see so many Black people waste every single opportunity that they were lynched, beaten, sprayed with fire hoses, raped, discriminated, and killed to gain. It's not elitism, or racism...it's sorrow. And there are moments when you want to shake the fuck out of these wastrels and scream "wake up!!!" i know it's not unique to Black people..but honestly, "You had to be there...." edited to add :forgive typos and lack of indentations...more of a rant thana well thought out thing...had to vent.... Sorrow and anger.*

Level -> RE: Bill Cosby and Black Conservatism (4/25/2008 2:51:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks lronitulstahp, thanks for your post - I couldn't agree more. I'm so tired of people who are too "diplomatic" to share their reasoning on why proportionately more black people live in poverty than white people. One thing you can be sure of is that it will include some form of pathologising all black people with a particular characteristic. This "pathology" is not real and cannot be quantified but it exists in their minds for one reason: it allows them to feel better. So by extension, Cosby's rants allow them to feel better - that's why it got posted, as a result of another thread. Now, are you saying I began this thread for those reasons?

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