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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 7:01:55 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

There are needs and there are wants, as I see things needs must be addressed for the health and well being of a person, while wants can be denied without damage. Certainly needs and wants change, at least I would hope that they would along with growth and change in the person. It's back to Maslov's hierarchy this ends up going. Even Maslov noted that so lng as there was security in the majority of any one set level one often would choose to forgo a lower level need to secure a need that was on the level of need at the higher level for a given time period. (Man will choose to go without food to make gains in self esteam.)

Yes of course. Good old Maslow. I have been anorexic, very many years ago now, but I did restrain myself from eating in an attempt to make myself look moreattractive and therefore get esteemed higher in the eyes of others. I was blind to an understanding of esteem as self-esteem.

But generally only when the need for food is secured and it is by choice that they are denying themselves.

And yes, food was bountiful even though I didn't feel that it was choice at the time. It genuinely felt like I could not eat, had no appetite, disliked food.

As to meeting the needs, I do feel it is incumbant on a Dominant to meet (or rather povide for te meeting of) the real needs or to give guideance as to why any percieved needs they see as a desire.

I had to check (dictionary-wise) on the meaning of incumbent here. It's a fairly new experience for me to rely upon a Dominant feeling any duty or obligation to meet most of my needs. That's because I have been so damn independent for so long.

But even here, how when and where those needs get met, can be part of the exchange as well. Wants can be denied but sometimes that denial will proove the want to be a need over time, just as some percieved needs can be proven to be a want.

Yes: got my head around this too eventually. One thing my ex denied me was after-care and I missed it more and more until I needed it so bad.

Many times the goal set will make all the difference in want vs need. I can provide you with this that you desire from me but to do so I need this thing I only wanted before, in order to accomplish it. (works both sides of the / mark)

Yes: well it has often felt like I do all the providing (slave mindset?), set myself up as a slave rather than a submissive position and then feel deprived if my needs, which I never communicated in the first place, I kick off when those needs surface.

I dislike the way many BDSMers use te term limits as well. Choose rather to use the term as a basic English language denotation. Mental limits (this is where I cannot go without mental damage) Physical limits, This is the limit of my physical ability to endure or accomplish, (Can't breath water, can't stay awake for 5 days straight, Can't run a marathon)
Limits are the points where the mind or body simply cannot continue.

Yes got this too. In other words limits have limits?Thanks for all that Archer. Really appreciated.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 8:52:52 AM

Bethnai

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For me, my BDSM cravings are needs. I have limited experience, maybe I am way off target. Some of my needs I can define. My needs were already in place, however, the Dominant I was with cultivated them. It was more of an ok to have to them, face them and express them. The belief in the form in which those needs are met can be altered by a Dom (at least I think they could) but not the root.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 9:14:26 AM

CalifChick

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I haven't had enough coffee yet to read thru and process the other responses. But I can say this: Prin, if you have three dominant men vying for your attention, and you so soon on the heals of your breakup, you need to put the hard brakes on and STOP. Do NOT pass GO. Do NOT collect $200.

It is good that you are trying to define your needs. But seriously, in your case, I think you need to stop and define those WITHOUT the influence of a dominant man in your peripheral vision. Otherwise, being the person that you seem to be, you are going to subconsciously define yourself in a way that HE wants, not in a way that you truly are.

There was a thread a little while back about how people have figured out what they want/who they are, that sort of thing. If you didn't read that, I would strongly suggest it. After I made my post on that thread, I copied it to my journal, if you want to go read it there.

Cali

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 9:23:35 AM

OmegaG

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it would seem to me, from reading the boards that you have two primary needs that tend to war with each other.

You have a need to be in a relationship, to be owned and you have a need to be treated a specific way-- and I'm not entirely sure that you've defined that need.

So your need to be in a relationship trumps your other need and you become happy that you are owned, but then this other need starts raising it's head and starts screaming at you that it's not being met and then your happiness evaporates until the need for a relationship starts beating down your need to be treated according to your charecter and you find an internal battle brewing within you, both needs fighting for supremacy and you get taken on a roller coaster ride depending on which need is more forefront in your mind at the moment.

Someone asked me just a few days ago how I knew m'Lord was right for me and after some thought my answer simply was that I defined the "who" that was best suited for me before I put myself out there to be found by anyone and I stuck to my guns when people who weren't that person approached me. I decided that being alone better fufilled my needs then being in a less that great relationship.

So part of what you need should include what kind of person can make you happy (with minimal change of either of you), rather then just any warm body that will twist and turn you until you can't recognize yourself anymore.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 9:25:06 AM

CalifChick

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Omega?

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 9:39:28 AM

DiurnalVampire

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I'll take a stab at this, since with the both boys I have already gone through this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
As a submissive what do I need?
Do I have defineable needs?
Do I have needs which are shaped by my Dominant?
Could I, or should I therefore have my beliefs in what I need changed by the Dominant whom I am with?

I will assume we can refer to needs as wants and desires, not necessarily actaul must-have needs. There are those, of course, like the need for companionship and the need for conversation and affection. But those would be the same regardless of if the relationship were D/s or vanilla. I'll focus on D/s wants and desires. As a sub, only you can figure out what you need to be happy in that position. Each of my 2 have very different needs. They are highly definable, and without addressing those needs, our relationship would go nowhere. I want happy slaves, becasue if I have happy slaves I will have worthwhile relationships. Part of their being happy is making sure that their needs are met. Some of those needs were shaped by me, and their personal interaction with me. There were the stirrings of interest before me, but as we stayed together they becasme more of something they desires consistantly instead of just thought about. Others have ceased to be desires, after having either not enjoyed or been disappointed by a nee dthey thought they would have but learned better.

quote:

Likewise from a Dominants point of biew:
Do you satisfy or deny your sub's needs?
Do you expect or allow those needs to change?
Do you wish to change your sub's beliefs in what they need as a form of control?

I put work into satisfying thir needs, but I also do not let that work overshadow my own needs and desires. There is a balance and compromise that must be met of the relationship is one sided and will not work out well. I expect the needs wil change as they mature and learn more about themselves, and as life situations change. Angel's needs and wants now are far different fom when I got him 2 years ago, and wil likely change again when he starts his Army training. I will adjust with him, since keeping him is more important than anything else. I have changed some of his beliefs and needs as a control factor, to make them more parallel my own desires. Others I will never touch, becasue they are beliefs and desires very important to who he is and how he functions.

quote:

The biggest question: how are both sub and dominant needs met.....I know the one word answer (is communication) but I sincerely would be suppoerted by more detailed answers.

In a well-paired couple, there is no need to ask this question. Fox and I compliment each other fairly naturally, we meet one anthers needs without having to think about it. Angel and I work wel off one another, I can read what he wants from his actions, and he knows me well enough to either figure out what I want or ask what I desire. The idea is to find someone who has much the same wants and needs as you do, or the opposites of them if they can work together. I have a strong desire to be needed, Angel and Fox both have the desire to be dependant. Things like that.

Good luck.
DV

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 4:09:25 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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I think this is one of those issues where you can spend a lot of time making it really overcomplicated and never actually accomplish anything.

Of course, we tend to be pretty overcomplicated fucked up beings anyway so it kinda makes sense.

But, as Master Fire Maam said, there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. I often talk to people about how even if my partner and I don't get the exact same pleasure out of the exact same act, what matters is that we're getting the pleasure that WORKS for us. We don't have to be on the same level to both be at happy levels.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 4:30:57 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I haven't had enough coffee yet to read thru and process the other responses. But I can say this: Prin, if you have three dominant men vying for your attention, and you so soon on the heals of your breakup, you need to put the hard brakes on and STOP. Do NOT pass GO. Do NOT collect $200.

It is good that you are trying to define your needs. But seriously, in your case, I think you need to stop and define those WITHOUT the influence of a dominant man in your peripheral vision. Otherwise, being the person that you seem to be, you are going to subconsciously define yourself in a way that HE wants, not in a way that you truly are.

There was a thread a little while back about how people have figured out what they want/who they are, that sort of thing. If you didn't read that, I would strongly suggest it. After I made my post on that thread, I copied it to my journal, if you want to go read it there.

Cali

cali I will read it.
I process stuff very fast. I just have an intuition that my life is speeding me by at a faster and faster rate of knots the older I get. days used to last for 24 hours: now they pass in moments. Each day crammed with a tousand things to do and not enough time for play.
BUT I am definitely taking ALL communications far far more slowly and retrospectively than I have ever done before.
Loving the attention but also loving my own company, treasuring my teens and my garden and re-writing some stuff.
I'll go read what you have suggested. And thanks.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 4/23/2008 4:31:39 PM >

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 4:35:42 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think this is one of those issues where you can spend a lot of time making it really overcomplicated and never actually accomplish anything.

Of course, we tend to be pretty overcomplicated fucked up beings anyway so it kinda makes sense.

But, as Master Fire Maam said, there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. I often talk to people about how even if my partner and I don't get the exact same pleasure out of the exact same act, what matters is that we're getting the pleasure that WORKS for us. We don't have to be on the same level to both be at happy levels.

You've always sounded a pretty singular person to me, with a strong sense of self and good personal boundaries.
I'm a twin. It's different. Of course I don't know HOW exactly it's different but I am always wanting to replicate that inherent silent language and understanding that multiples have that singles don't.
When I first went to school I was curious as to why there was only one of everyone else. seriously.....

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 4:44:13 PM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think this is one of those issues where you can spend a lot of time making it really overcomplicated and never actually accomplish anything.

Of course, we tend to be pretty overcomplicated fucked up beings anyway so it kinda makes sense.

But, as Master Fire Maam said, there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. I often talk to people about how even if my partner and I don't get the exact same pleasure out of the exact same act, what matters is that we're getting the pleasure that WORKS for us. We don't have to be on the same level to both be at happy levels.

You've always sounded a pretty singular person to me, with a strong sense of self and good personal boundaries.
I'm a twin. It's different. Of course I don't know HOW exactly it's different but I am always wanting to replicate that inherent silent language and understanding that multiples have that singles don't.
When I first went to school I was curious as to why there was only one of everyone else. seriously.....

Are you saying that not knowing how to be alone is your motivation and drive for everything?

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 4:45:54 PM

SeeksOnlyOne

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~fr~

what i need is to be a content human being....to be able to wake up and be happy and look forward to the day on more days than not.....

what i got from my relationship was someone who made me think, made me laugh, made me cry and kept me guessing. i got someone who often did exactly the opposite of what i expected, whether from expectations i had made or he had implied.

i also got someone who inspired to to do better at everything i did.

someone who could change my attitude with a word or a look, and me not always like it.

someone who confessed having been ready to be brutal with me and then just sensing i needed tenderness and laughter and changing mules in mid stream and giving me just that-when i didnt even realize it was what i needed.

now that its over, i have me again, still content and waking up looking forward to every day (well ok almost every one). i have memories and things i learned about me and no regrets.

theres no way i could make a list of what i need from a relationship.......other than i need the chemistry and it to be right. and that wont happen because i make a list and go crazy looking for it, it will happen when it is meant to.

my opinions and thoughts only i know. but prinsexx i sense you need to find contentment within you before you will ever find it in a relationship.

good luck finding what you seek.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 4:49:11 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I haven't had enough coffee yet to read thru and process the other responses. But I can say this: Prin, if you have three dominant men vying for your attention, and you so soon on the heals of your breakup, you need to put the hard brakes on and STOP. Do NOT pass GO. Do NOT collect $200.

It is good that you are trying to define your needs. But seriously, in your case, I think you need to stop and define those WITHOUT the influence of a dominant man in your peripheral vision. Otherwise, being the person that you seem to be, you are going to subconsciously define yourself in a way that HE wants, not in a way that you truly are.

There was a thread a little while back about how people have figured out what they want/who they are, that sort of thing. If you didn't read that, I would strongly suggest it. After I made my post on that thread, I copied it to my journal, if you want to go read it there.

Cali

Yes I just read this inyour journal:

~And last, but certainly not least, I want someone that is willing to have really awesome sex. That seems obvious, but it's not. Really awesome sex generally takes time to develop, as you get to know each other's mind and body. If they're not willing to try something new, then how will they ever know if that is going to be something to add into the regular "menu" or not?

Oh yes, and I want someone who wants me in his life as much as I want him in mine. ~

And I remember reading it first time round in your post. I was impressed by its clarity of expression.

My response to it at the moment, as it's fairly late here is ths time round? I want (as opposed to what I need of course) is a mystery, a sense of adventure: safe, secure, protected adventure. A guide. A mentor. A patient protector. Oh this feels like asking for the moon. I think I am going to write that wish list though and fold it into a paper plane a fly it across the Thames.
It;s more than Ihave ever dared to wish for before. Indeed I have never wished-listed like that before but kind of just settled for next best, second, third, fourth best...a personal compromise. Somehow my innate submissive nature got me confused that I had to do it that way.
derrrrrrrrrrrrrrbut at least I'n being hoenst here even if as it's coming out on paper it looks, well.....somewhat self-defeating.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 4:51:55 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think this is one of those issues where you can spend a lot of time making it really overcomplicated and never actually accomplish anything.

Of course, we tend to be pretty overcomplicated fucked up beings anyway so it kinda makes sense.

But, as Master Fire Maam said, there's no need to reinvent the wheel here. I often talk to people about how even if my partner and I don't get the exact same pleasure out of the exact same act, what matters is that we're getting the pleasure that WORKS for us. We don't have to be on the same level to both be at happy levels.

You've always sounded a pretty singular person to me, with a strong sense of self and good personal boundaries.
I'm a twin. It's different. Of course I don't know HOW exactly it's different but I am always wanting to replicate that inherent silent language and understanding that multiples have that singles don't.
When I first went to school I was curious as to why there was only one of everyone else. seriously.....

Are you saying that not knowing how to be alone is your motivation and drive for everything?

Dear Luscious: how would I knopw how to be alone? I wasn't even alone in utero
That's a heavy deal to trick with.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 5:39:59 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
When I first went to school I was curious as to why there was only one of everyone else. seriously.....

I guess that's a sign that your troubles with getting outside of yourself and really understanding the world outside your small sphere started early. Work on that some more and get perspective.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/23/2008 11:41:04 PM

chellekitty

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there is a difference between the needs i have that have to be met in order for me to exist and the needs i have that have to be met in order for me to thrive ...though i have not spent a great majority of my life getting my needs met in order for me to thrive, i know what they are and i continue to push forward to try to get to a place where they can be...

prinny...i can probably tell you what you need to exist - it's pretty easy, i can look it up on google or any number of resources...what you need to thrive is distinctly up to you...i could not thrive in LA's situation, i could not thrive in darcy's situation, i could not thrive in BSB's situation...i am uniquely me, and i had to figure out what i needed to "be all that i can be"...and i have to change and adapt, because as you and others have noted, it changes constantly...this is what i was talking about all those times i said, get to know you, all by yourself, without a man in the picture...because if you are anything like me, and i know you are (i am hoping that is a compliment), you will take on way too much of what you think he thinks is good or best or whatever you think he wants if you don't have a solid, stable picture of what is you, who you are and the foundation to stand on and say "i will not compromise me so i can be with this person"...because you are worth it and there is someone out there that will love everything about you, not just the bits and pieces he wants...

take care
chelle

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RE: What do I need? - 4/24/2008 1:01:39 AM

Leatherist

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Forget the bs, protocols,mystic ascendencies that people tack on to make themselves feel better. It's only smoke and mirrors.

What enables you to feel fullfilled as a woman?

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RE: What do I need? - 4/24/2008 1:13:37 AM

Kalista07

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Forget the bs, protocols,mystic ascendencies that people tack on to make themselves feel better. It's only smoke and mirrors.

What enables you to feel fullfilled as a woman?

Ya know Leatherist i'm not even sure {with all due respect} that i buy into the whole "what enables you to be fullfilled as a woman" crap. i think some people use that as a crutch or a cop out...i think for some people they need to look at what they reallly need....For me i have very few NEEDS. They include: the ability to breathe, food, water, shelter, a place to live, a job, and a way to get to the job...For me anything else is just a bonus..
But then again, i've been accused of being a simple person before. i am not sure if i can't get all the hoopla or can't comprehend the insanity of doing the same thing expecting different results.....
Kali

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RE: What do I need? - 4/24/2008 1:19:11 AM

chickpea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Forget the bs, protocols,mystic ascendencies that people tack on to make themselves feel better. It's only smoke and mirrors.

What enables you to feel fullfilled as a woman?

Being completely cared for, caring for myself, someone who loves and appreciates the best out of me as a woman, my complimentary man a strong rock to lean on who understands the good and bad and looks out for the best for me, and being blissfully free. Me living a well-balanced, well-adjusted life with opportunities for family, fun, friends, growth as a person in career to spread love and joy to others who matter to me. Keeping all my needs relatively met, with one or the other not being too empty. I can be more specific, but that's my direction/angle.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/24/2008 1:20:22 AM

Leatherist

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People are strange. I've pretty much gotten beyond most of the wierdness to understanding one basic element of this. People only enable things in other that they want-or think they want.

And take the most of the needs for granted as thier right.

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RE: What do I need? - 4/24/2008 1:22:25 AM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Forget the bs, protocols,mystic ascendencies that people tack on to make themselves feel better. It's only smoke and mirrors.

What enables you to feel fullfilled as a woman?

Being completely cared for, caring for myself, someone who loves and appreciates the best out of me as a woman, my complimentary man a strong rock to lean on who understands the good and bad and looks out for the best for me, and being blissfully free. Me living a well-balanced, well-adjusted life with opportunities for family, fun, friends, growth as a person in career to spread love and joy to others who matter to me. Keeping all my needs relatively met, with one or the other not being too empty. I can be more specific, but that's my direction/angle.

Pray tell,how comes all of this wonder to pass?

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