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The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 3:11:41 AM

ShadeDiva

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I hate to add yet another depressing note on the potential loss of another freedom - but this one is SO fundamental that is chills me to the bone:

The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction"
New law will require marriage as a legal condition of motherhood

By Laura McPhee
http://www.nuvo.net/archive/2005/10/05/unauthorized_reproduction.html

<article deleted>

[Mod Note: Speaking of unauthorized reproduction... Please just post a link to articles instead of quoting them in their entirety. Thank you.]

Source:
http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2068

Interim Committee Bill:
http://www.in.gov/legislative/interim/committee/prelim/HFCO04.pdf

Indy Star newspaper account:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051005/NEWS02/510050438&SearchID=73222453369588

RTV6 report:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/5055349/detail.html

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 10/13/2005 6:26:20 AM >

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 3:18:52 AM

Lordandmaster

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Roberts is from Indiana, isn't he...

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 3:46:50 AM

BlkTallFullfig

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The more outrageous things get, the more I say it serves the people right for being too lazy to become informed about our/world issues, our leaders, and participate in the political process by showing up and voting.

Welcome back to boards ShadeDiva.

M

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 4:20:28 AM

ShadeDiva

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Yeah but how good is our vote really?

Now that they are moving ALL voting to computers will our vote now ever have any meaning? I mean they already lacked any real sway unless shit was close, but now it can be manipulated and no one could prove it.

If Bush ever wins another election, either of them - I will know our voting system is fixed. I don't beleive any Bush could honestly win an election again. I won't even address if he honestly got elected THIS time. But I don't believe he could win another one, and if he did I would lose all faith our votes have any power. JMO.

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 4:40:31 AM

ShadeDiva

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http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051007/OPINION/510070426/1002

Yay!!!

I feel a little better!

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 5:18:53 AM

JohnWarren

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CNN reported the the effort has been dropped.

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 5:31:07 AM

ShadeDiva

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Yeah I know it was dropped - that's what the link I posted in my last post said and why I was saying Yay and that I felt better hehe!

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 6:01:09 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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Well frankly the idea that there should be SOME standard by which someone should be allowed to raise a child beyond simply having the working parts is an idea that I tend to support. Granted, raising a child is very different from conceiving and giving birth to a child.

However I don't think it's at all feasible until we at least have some perfect, non permanent form of birth control.

And after that all the ethical and legal headaches of the issue alone boggle me.

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 6:09:35 AM

frenchpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadeDiva
If Bush ever wins another election, either of them - I will know our voting system is fixed.

What do you mean by "either" ? Jeb and Laura, or Millie and Barney ? I would vote for Barney Vs Jeb...

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 10:33:40 AM

sub4hire

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quote:

If Bush ever wins another election, either of them - I will know our voting system is fixed

You mean you have doubt after the Ohio fiasco and army of attorneys he hired to fight Ohio long before the election ever took place?

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 11:10:54 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

If Bush ever wins another election, either of them - I will know our voting system is fixed.

I agree! What about all those hanging Chads in 2000. Things would have been a lot better if Chad won! I never could figure out why he was hanged in the first place.

I also believe Bush is responsible for the Yankees losing in the first round, and my new puppy having worms. Now he's trying to distract us by making it rain in the northeast and causing flooding! We should be starting impeachment proceedings!

I can't wait until he tries to run in 2008 just so I can vote against him! In fact - It should be unconstitutional for him to even run again!

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 1:42:05 PM

Lordandmaster

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Merc, what are you serious about? You spend so much time making fun of political issues that I can no longer tell what you really believe in.

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 2:21:40 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

I can no longer tell what you really believe in.

The answer is... ENJOYING LIFE!

Politically I believe in positions that are pragmatic, intelligent, and honest; formed by research, and a personal perspective that tries to include consideration of the "big picture". I believe that lawyers are the root of all evil. I believe that the public educational system in the US over the past 20+ years has generated a US population who's intelligence, knowledge of history, and understanding about the basic workings of their government and constitution, CAN'T be underestimated.

What part of my post made fun of political issues? I was addressing a constitutional fact, and wondering if it really makes people feel better about their lives assigning blame to Bush and re-hashing the 2000 and 2004 elections. Not that it matters, but if Bush did pre-hire lawyers in Ohio, he got the idea from Gore's 2000 Florida legal team.

And now some of what I don't believe. I don't belief that blame is worth any focus. I don't believe that "contrary-ism" should be valid unless it includes solutions that reflect the current status of the problem. I don't believe in the prevailing 7 degrees of separation tactic that points every ailment of this country back to the President; ANY President not just Bush. And I don't blame any aspect of my life on someone else.

But most importantly having a good time and laughing at every opportunity, even at my own expense. I also believe in pointing out the absurd, preferring sarcasm as a principle means of making a point.

And for an "instant belief" - Right now, I believe I'll have a nice, smoky, single malt as soon as I finish posting this and leave my office.

Hope that clears things up. BTW - Are you inferring that Bush WASN'T responsible for the Yankees losing? Everyone knows he's been upset since A-rod left his old team, the Texas Rangers!

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 2:48:57 PM

Kindred2Evil

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Well frankly the idea that there should be SOME standard by which someone should be allowed to raise a child beyond simply having the working parts is an idea that I tend to support. Granted, raising a child is very different from conceiving and giving birth to a child.

However I don't think it's at all feasible until we at least have some perfect, non permanent form of birth control.

And after that all the ethical and legal headaches of the issue alone boggle me.

Ookay. Well, my first thoughts on this is who judges who is able to raise a child? By what standards do we hold them to? Money? Power? Influence? Would it be a social standing?
It's things like this that truelly just make me beyond sick. Our world is controlled enough by crooked politics, now you say that it would be okay for someone to come in and tell you you can't have children and raise them? Are you kidding me????
I'm not picking on you in particular Emerald, but I am dieing to know what you base your thoughts on.
Look back through history, you will see times when homicide against a child ran rampant. Ancient Japan, they used to put a grain of rice in a female childs mouth and leave her outside, exposed to the elements strictly because she was a girl. Mongol warriors used to slit their throats if they weren't sure the children belonged to them. Native American tribes would cast out one of the children if they were twins or Goddess forbid triplets. It was all wrong, period.
I wouldn't want to be part of a nation that dictated to me that my children couldn't have children of their own. What a horrifying thought, what next? Sterilization at birth?

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 3:53:35 PM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

If Bush ever wins another election, either of them - I will know our voting system is fixed. I don't beleive any Bush could honestly win an election again. I won't even address if he honestly got elected THIS time. But I don't believe he could win another one, and if he did I would lose all faith our votes have any power. JMO.

ShadeDiva

Bush is term-limited by the US Constitution; but there is another Bush kid; Jeb, in Florida.

i cannot see voting by pc becoming law anytime soon.

pinkpleasures

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 3:56:37 PM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

I believe that lawyers are the root of all evil.

Mercandbeth

Hey! i like lawyer jokes as well as anyone else...but you can't be serious about this. There are plenty of people who owe a debt of gratitude to a lawyer.

pinkpleasures

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 5:35:19 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

Well frankly the idea that there should be SOME standard by which someone should be allowed to raise a child beyond simply having the working parts is an idea that I tend to support. Granted, raising a child is very different from conceiving and giving birth to a child.

However I don't think it's at all feasible until we at least have some perfect, non permanent form of birth control.

And after that all the ethical and legal headaches of the issue alone boggle me.

Headaches aside, just what exactly would you propose as critera here? Out of curiousity, would you support castrating the developementally disabled, or perhaps we'll just sterilize all the stupid people while we're at it.

I've heard you make some pretty thoughtless remarks, but Em, this one left a crater in it's wake.

Lily

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 5:38:33 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

You mean you have doubt after the Ohio fiasco and army of attorneys he hired to fight Ohio long before the election ever took place?

As someone who actually spent 2004 election season on the ground employed in the presidential campaign and ran an arm of a well funded national operation in Ohio, could you please tell me what exactly you are talking about?

Please, dear god, don't let this be another 'they stole the election' rants, because even though that shitbag won, unfortunately, he did it legitimately.

Lily

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 5:46:23 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
Headaches aside, just what exactly would you propose as critera here? Out of curiousity, would you support castrating the developementally disabled, or perhaps we'll just sterilize all the stupid people while we're at it.

I've heard you make some pretty thoughtless remarks, but Em, this one left a crater in it's wake.

Lily

Like I said, raising a child is different than giving birth to a child.

And as I also said, the ETHICAL headaches boggle me. Your question is asking what my ethical boundaries on this would be. The answer is that I'm not completely sure. I've had this exact discussion with many friends many times before because it's something I find fascinating,the drive to procreate, the awful job most parents do, the awful reasons parents usually have for making new babies, from the micro problem of good nutrition to the macro problem of over population.

On the one hand we'd like to say that only people who could richly raise children to be fostered individually, who were mature in body mind and spirit, whose wisdom was only matched by their love...and yet you have everyone else, including me, who was certainly not raised by such pristine models. Where would the world be if such reproduction and parenting methods were controlled? Better? Worse?

Far too large a problem for me to really even peck at. But I will say that I do not believe someone is a good choice to raise someone just because they have the biological means to do it, and someone is not a bad choice just because they do not have the biological means as well.

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RE: The Crime of "Unauthorized Reproduction" - 10/13/2005 5:53:31 PM

frenchpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

As someone who actually spent 2004 election season on the ground employed in the presidential campaign and ran an arm of a well funded national operation in Ohio, could you please tell me what exactly you are talking about?

Please, dear god, don't let this be another 'they stole the election' rants, because even though that shitbag won, unfortunately, he did it legitimately.

Lily

Still, many third world countries have better organized elections. with no electronic machines, so that they can count the ballots. Where it's not possible to register as Mary Poppins in several counties. Where it's not possible to have your cat registered to vote. Isn't there an area in Ohio where there were more people to vote for W than adult inhabitants ? (I can't remember where I read that, but it was in a US paper for sure). And no possiblility to count the votes, of course.

Anyway, in the very backward country where I live, I can go to the town hall after the vote, see if the ballots are counted properly, and then rant about how stupidly people voted. That's democracy. It's just unbelieveable that people accept those voting machines in the first place.

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