RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (Full Version)

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Emperor1956 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 1:38:51 PM)

FR:  I don't get it.   Why would you want this kluge of a pistol?    Revolvers are supposed to be clean, fast, simple and loud.  What is the purpose of a "automatic" (which it isn't) gas-powered cylinder design?   First, I cannot believe it is that reliable.  Jeesus, it has over 80 moving parts! (look at the patent photo).  Second, my understanding is the revolver only advances itself if you shoot full .357 loads -- a .38 apparently won't generate the gas needed to push the cylinder (according to several reviews on the 'Net).  Maybe this is why the company is bankrupt and the tooling is up for sale?

Now in a shotgun, gas-powered self advancing mechanisms are beautiful.  But they are slow.  My Beretta can barely keep up.  What you need is one of these.  I never get tired of Tom Knapp.  I've seen him do some of these live.  Just watch the first 2 minutes, and you'll be hooked.  (And no, I can't do one of these tricks consistently.)

E.



Smith117 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 1:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Great I love your system of instant justice.


It's not instant justice, it's self-defense. Though if it stops the criminal from doing anything worse in the future, I'm for that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
I often hear people talk about defending themselves with guns but never how they actually do this. When the criminal knows exactly what he will do, the victim is taken by surprise. How likely it is anyone can take back the advantage of prior knowledge?


Simple. If somenoe puts a gun in your face and pulls the trigger, you're right. It's over regardless. If someone who just wants to rob you or whatever tries, you might surprise him because pulling your own gun (this is where tactical gun training comes in handy, and any average citzen can take that course). If you prepare what you will do in the event of a surprise situation, you can better react to that surprise situation and you have a better chance of turning the tables. Your prior knowledge argument assumes that the criminal knows exactly how it will play out. He doesn't. Most of the time, they expect to flash a gun, scare someone into parting with small, easy to steal items and then they run off. If one of those items you pull is your own gun, while dropping to the ground for some cover, my guess is that criminal would be pretty damned surprised since many criminals are worthless street thugs who've never seen real combat and don't expect their "easy prey" to fight back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Also if it is all about your self defence why the need to glorify your ownership? See that is the problem for me if an American kills someone and says, "I don't like the fact I had to kill him but it had to be done." I never believe them for the simple reason two weeks earlier they were glorifying their use of them.


The glorifiers are usually collectors. I don't glorify anything. I can appreciate a nice weapon, much like any soldier or cop can. If I go out carrying on, you'd never know I even had it. That's part of what they teach in the CHL class. The gun isn't there to make you a badass. It's there incase the shit hits the fan and you need it. The first thing they teach you in CHL class is conflict de-excalation, which means never letting a conflict get to the point where you fear the person enough to need to pull the weapon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Recently there was an issue with profile pictures with guns in and I think I asked back then "Where do you keep your gun lying around between shots when you are adjusting your camera?" I was serious and they thought I was joking, how sad is that?


I imagine they thought you were joking because anyone who has knowledge of guns knows how to handle them. I would guess they were laughing at the ridiculous nature of your insinuation, which by your own admission comes from your novice ability around guns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
I'll gladly admit I'm a gun novice having never handled one. All I know about guns I can write on my raised middle finger.


This is why you don't understand. And you won't, until you need to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Roll out the argument that people kill people not guns if you like. You are just raising the stakes all the time. The criminal will always match the weapon you have and also have the advantage of prior knowledge.


The problem with the gun control vs not argument is that guns are already out there. They're everywhere. If you restrict their ownership, you only put them in the hands of the bad guys. Look at all th recent school shootings lately. Schools are "gun free" zones where even CHL holders can't carry them. Did that stop the shootings? No. Because the criminal who was going to do the shooting was already going to break the law. A sign that said "firearms prohibited" isn't going to stop them.

So what then do we do? Round up everyone's guns? Well answer me this, if you were a criminal, and you suddenly found out that ALL law-abiding citizens were unarmed....what would you do? Would you fear committing crimes, knowing the average response time to a burglary call for the cops is between 5 and 10 minutes, assuming you let the innocent person get to a phone?

Rounding up all guns will make this place a haven for crime. It might one day get better. But we'd go through years of much much worse before that. And that's something I'm not willing to do.



Smith117 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 1:55:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
The point is to reduce the likelihood of occurrence not add more hazards into the mix.


There is no "adding." Guns are already in the mix. They have been for a couple hundred years. Suddenly trying to 'subtract' them from those who only wish for defense, would be disasterous.



Smith117 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 1:56:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
I simply think that maybe he is into short range shooting and needs to store it in a small handbag.


Again, nice back pedal.



kittinSol -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:05:04 PM)

Just like I said... pro-gunners are just as virulent about defending their turf as anti-gunners. Perhaps even more so: there is probably a middle-ground to be found somewhere, but neither side is likely to compromise any time soon.

Tthere is no point trying to convince those opposed to the idea that it's cool to want to have firearms, Smith, and I doubt you're trying to convince yourself. Nobody's going to convince me to want to go anywhere near the damn things, and I just hope that those that have them will keep away from me and mine... Peace.




christine1 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:12:17 PM)

nicely said Kitten, and for the most part i agree.  i happen to be pro gun, pro responsible gun, meaning pass the back ground check and know how to store it properly.  my problem isn't with responsible gun owners, it's with the ones who leave them out in the open, who sell them on the black market to criminals, and with the criminals themselves.  i'd like to get a small handgun to protect myself in my home, i don't see anything tragic there. 

anti gun people can rant all they want and that is their right, but taking away guns will not solve the problems, it will remove guns from your average joe blow who means no harm.  the criminals will still find a way to get their guns and what will change other than the fact that the average joe can no longer defend himself if needed?



Smith117 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:17:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Just like I said... pro-gunners are just as virulent about defending their turf as anti-gunners. Perhaps even more so: there is probably a middle-ground to be found somewhere, but neither side is likely to compromise any time soon.

Tthere is no point trying to convince those opposed to the idea that it's cool to want to have firearms, Smith, and I doubt you're trying to convince yourself. Nobody's going to convince me to want to go anywhere near the damn things, and I just hope that those that have them will keep away from me and mine... Peace.


You'll never be convinced until you need one and it's not there.

We had a serial "---" assaulter here who hit 20 times in 3 years. One victim, he "r---" then stabbed multiple times and then went to ransack her place. She though he left, so she dragged her bound, assaulted, stabbed and bleeding body into the hall, where he saw her and stabbed her some more. When he finally did leave, she dragged her bound, assaulted, stabbed even more body into the breezeway of her apartment building, and knocked with her head on the neighbor's door until they answered and called the paramedics.

She miraculously survived. The next time I saw her on the news, (unusual in "r---" cases") she was nearly fully recovered and holding a .45. She said she slept with it under her pillow and he would NOT be doing that to her again.

I think she might have come off as a little too.....gung ho in the other direction, but I can't criticize because I've never had that happen to me. So don't know what she's going through. The point remains valid though. If she hears the glass of her patio door shatter at 2 am again, the shatter-er will find a very large handgun being stuck in his face.

In my CHL class, they told us the greatest method of home defense in the world was a pump-12 gauge shotgun, whether it was loaded or not. Because EVERYONE knows the "click-click" sound of one of those being cocked. And if they were just planning a lil B&E...that's not something they want to deal with.



FullCircle -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:20:48 PM)

For every such news story you throw at me Smith I can throw one back where a member of a household has been killed by their gun or worse still had their children die from playing with the guns in the house.



kittinSol -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:23:54 PM)

Thanks, Christine... I understand that as the gun culture is beyond well-established in America, people are reluctant to do away with their weapons.

I wonder whether it could be made more challenging to buy one of these things, and whether society as a whole wouldn't profit from a tightening of the rules concerning ownership of handguns... I wonder whether it's altogether necessary and safe for individuals to own entire arsenals comprising of semi-automatics and other lethal weapons in their homes. These are valid questions, whether one is pro or anti. They're about compromise, however, and like I said, compromise is seen as a copout...

I would be interested to find out how frequently firearms are useful as a line of defense against criminal intent in comparison with the number of times people die or are injured by guns (whether as victims of crime or accident). Are guns that useful, or do they merely provide their (legal) owners with a psychological sense of security? How frequently are guns stolen and used for criminal purposes?

(Can you tell I'm trying to remain reasonable [:D] ?)



smilezz -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:24:32 PM)

quote:

Isn't this gun awesome? 

Naaa...it's rather ugly actually, does not look as it would function well....but hey! to each their own I 'spose. I'll stick with my .40 cal

Happy Saturday...

~smilezz~



Smith117 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:29:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

For every such news story you throw at me Smith I can throw one back where a member of a household has been killed by their gun or worse still had their children die from playing with the guns in the house.


And everytime you do that, anyone who knows how to handle a gun will explain what that gun owner did wrong and why they brought it on themselves.



christine1 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:34:20 PM)

lol Kittin, i can tell you are trying to be reasonable and so am i.  as many negative gun stories i've heard, i've listened to some that make me say, "thank God they had protection."   i odn't know if there is a status quo for this...i can only speak for myself and my experiences and know that i'd not go out in a blaze of glory one day shooting off my sawed off street sweeper because i had gone postal.   i'm just a middle aged woman who wants a means of protection in her home...no harm, no foul, unless you come in with force and unannounced.  

my basic question to anti gun people is this:  how do everyday joe blows like me protect themselves against criminals who will get guns illegally no matter what the gun laws are?  i'm not out to be dirty harry, although i lust the fuck after him. 




FullCircle -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:40:31 PM)

I can't answer that

All I can say is bad things happen and owning a gun never guarantees good things will come of them.



kittinSol -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 2:55:27 PM)

See, that's where compromise could intervene... there are so many things that could be done. It's one thing to own a handgun for personal protection (although I still think it's a shame that you have to come to such an extreme, I understand this because of the history of gun culture in America). It's quite another to own fifty different kinds of automatics for 'fun' (or whatever it is that people 'collect'). It's still too easy to purchase a firearm in my opinion. There could be a federal agency that would deal with this. There could be a national gun license. There could be more public scrutiny over who owns what, why and where.

Thing is, it's like a national past-time. Once guns are made into a hobby it becomes more difficult to take them for the serious objects they are: they become like toys, and every adult wants one. Look at the appallingly pathetic vids that were posted on this thread. They're laughable, but they're tragic too. Does it have to be quite this extreme? Maybe it would be healthy to remysticise the gun for what it is: a dangerous thing that's not sexy, that's not cool, but that's unfortunately necessary at times. How about a public education program aimed at American's youth, to go in line with the 'sexual abstinence' and 'say no to drugs' bullcrap? Say no to sex, say no to drugs, say no to guns. Since the first two are considered to be such awful things, I don't see why guns shouldn't be thrown into the bag with them.

See where I'm getting at? Compromise. I know, I know, it's unsexy, and Clint was never about any kind of status quo: but who ever said progress was a libido enhancer [:D] ?



FullCircle -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 3:17:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Recently there was an issue with profile pictures with guns in and I think I asked back then "Where do you keep your gun lying around between shots when you are adjusting your camera?" I was serious and they thought I was joking, how sad is that?

I imagine they thought you were joking because anyone who has knowledge of guns knows how to handle them. I would guess they were laughing at the ridiculous nature of your insinuation, which by your own admission comes from your novice ability around guns.


You give people far too much credit for their training.

For me it underscored what kittinsol just said i.e. some people own guns for the wrong reasons. Same reason some people started smoking because it was sexy. Personal defence is just an afterthought and those people will attend the course to get the license and then pose in picture to impress others. The power of death so impressive isn't it?

Do you seriously think everyone that legally owns and carries a gun knows how to use it and hasn't got a little rusty at some point regarding safe handling?

I bet that is a tough sell to your ilk.





christine1 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 3:18:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

See, that's where compromise could intervene... there are so many things that could be done. It's one thing to own a handgun for personal protection (although I still think it's a shame that you have to come to such an extreme, I understand this because of the history of gun culture in America). It's quite another to own fifty different kinds of automatics for 'fun' (or whatever it is that people 'collect'). It's still too easy to purchase a firearm in my opinion. There could be a federal agency that would deal with this. There could be a national gun license. There could be more public scrutiny over who owns what, why and where.

Thing is, it's like a national past-time. Once guns are made into a hobby it becomes more difficult to take them for the serious objects they are: they become like toys, and every adult wants one. Look at the appallingly pathetic vids that were posted on this thread. They're laughable, but they're tragic too. Does it have to be quite this extreme? Maybe it would be healthy to remysticise the gun for what it is: a dangerous thing that's not sexy, that's not cool, but that's unfortunately necessary at times. How about a public education program aimed at American's youth, to go in line with the 'sexual abstinence' and 'say no to drugs' bullcrap? Say no to sex, say no to drugs, say no to guns. Since the first two are considered to be such awful things, I don't see why guns shouldn't be thrown into the bag with them.

See where I'm getting at? Compromise. I know, I know, it's unsexy, and Clint was never about any kind of status quo: but who ever said progress was a libido enhancer [:D] ?



owning a gun for protection is becoming more of a necessity as time goes by, sad but true.  i'm just dealing with facts and don't want to be unprepared with my life if the opportunity approaches me and my own.

i didn't watch all the vids but the ones i saw didin't apall me, i thought of some boyfriend filming his girl shooting a gun...no big deal to me, a shooting range, a desert...where's the foul?  people are going to have guns and are going to practice with them.  to some it is a sport, nothing wrong with that...it doesnt' mean they will kill...it's a sport, nothing more, nothing less.

i dont' see guns as a national past time...(fast food i would consider a national past time)  guns are a sport and a hobby and to people like me, protection.  to the criminals, guns are a means of getting what they want and if that means killing then they do. please don't judge the majority of law abiding Americans for the actions of a few. 

whether gun owners collect or hunt or shoot clay pigeons, it's not a terrible thing.  to view a gun as beautiful in its design and complexity isn't a bad thing.  to use one to kill out of selfishness and criminality is.  there is a difference.

edited to add:  i'm not against compromise at all...if both sides could just settle down a bit and have an open enough mind and see the view point of the other.  maybe impossible, i don't know.



kittinSol -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 3:29:29 PM)

I understand your personal reasons for owning a gun.

The rest (gun culture, beauty or ugliness of the object in question, how American society appears to an outsider like me) is subjective, and nearly a matter of esthetic appreciation. Something that can't be argued over, really...

I don't judge American citizens, but certain problems are linked very directly to guns - they could be tackled by society as a whole... all it would take is some political will to do so. I just don't think it's there.

I still won't own a gun: and it does help that I live in the safest state of the Union (I certainly couldn't have moved anywhere with a predominant gun culture - what can I say? I'm a Eurowuss [&:]) .



FullCircle -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 3:38:41 PM)

I'm tired what a waste of an afternoon[:D]

I don't even know why I did it, I've made this mistake far too many times.



christine1 -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 3:39:04 PM)

how America appears to an outsider like you is not subjective at all...unless you have lived it there is no way to understand it fully.  i'm not trying to argue...i'm just trying to help you see that it isn't just gun lovin hicks who drink beer and shoot their rifles into the air when they've had too many.  yes there is a need for guns and a passion for guns with collectors and the such and then there are the criminals...the criminals are where the problem lies...sorry, but that is the rotting stump of the whole problem with guns.



FullCircle -> RE: Mateba revolver...I want one really bad. (4/26/2008 3:43:11 PM)

Psssst christine number 1 the silver paint thing was a joke.



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