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ELUSIVE1 -> tops (4/26/2008 4:55:23 AM)
'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think?

camille65 -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 4:58:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think? I disagree. My dom can't always read my mind, sometimes I do have to tell him I need X instead of Y. There are times when I need a cathartic spanking but he doesn't know unless I tell him.Of course I could 'brat out' but I'd rather just tell him what I need.

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:00:35 AM)
Camille, that sounds more like open communication , which I agree is essential, and I am guessing he never accuses you of topping from the bottom

sirsholly -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:01:57 AM)
i agree with Camille. He has no issue whatsoever with my input. In fact he demands it.

camille65 -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:02:28 AM)
You're right, he has never said that. But we don't use BDSM lingo to begin with heh. I used to need to manipulate the situation before I learned it really and truly is okay to tell him I need him to do something.

MsStarlett -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:05:11 AM)
Gotta agree with Camille on this one. There is no way for any one person to know everything. If a bottom has an experience or a desire that is unfamiliar to the Top, the only way to share that experience is to request it. I chalk that one up to communication. Of course there's a big difference between, "I'd really like for you to flog my penis with a home made shoe string flogger" (Until he asked for it, I had never heard of one of those. I looked it up and made one.) and "Hit me Harder" in the middle of a session. I might just be just warming up my arm - Shut it & gimme a minute!

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:05:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly i agree with Camille. He has no issue whatsoever with my input. In fact he demands it. I really wasn't referring to the open communication between partners-I know that is important, this was more on target with the tops that accuse subs/masochists/bottoms of topping from the bottom

RavenMuse -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:10:16 AM)
Input from My girl is welcomed and even sometimes required, that isn't 'Topping from the bottom' but simple provision of information. Someone trying to manipulate the situation to their own ends, rather than giving clear info for Me to make My decision upon isn't going to get very far and is what I consider an attempt to 'Top from the bottom'.

camille65 -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:31:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly i agree with Camille. He has no issue whatsoever with my input. In fact he demands it. I really wasn't referring to the open communication between partners-I know that is important, this was more on target with the tops that accuse subs/masochists/bottoms of topping from the bottom I think then, that you might need to clarify or give examples as to what :'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' means.

Littlepita -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:37:53 AM)
We are all about open communication in this house. My Sir also feels that I can't top from the bottom unless he allows me too. I can always express my needs or wants and he can always say yes or no.

Alumbrado -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:41:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think? Presentations called 'Your kink had better be the same as my kink'? If two people want to play a certain way, and want to use a certain terminology, what has your friend's 'well respected' opinion got to do with it?

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 5:56:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think? Presentations called 'Your kink had better be the same as my kink'? If two people want to play a certain way, and want to use a certain terminology, what has your friend's 'well respected' opinion got to do with it? I have no problem with other people's kink,..I have been acccused of topping from the bottom from a very weak so called dom- to which I responded that I am a 'smart target', and if he doesn't get that he had no business weilding a flogger...jmho

Evility -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 6:11:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think? I think that there very definitely is such a thing as topping from the bottom and your friend's quote pretty much proves it. What she is saying in essence is "if you cannot top me the way I want to be topped then I am out of here - I will find someone who can top me my way". Nothing wrong with searching for someone that suits you but who is really in control in that scenario? Just my two cents.

sub4hire -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 6:14:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think? Just because a person does demonstrations, does that mean the world agree's? Or they cannot be wrong? A person is a person period. We are not perfect and sometimes we are wrong. All it means is they require something different than many with the people they play with now and then.

Alumbrado -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 6:15:28 AM)
And again, if two people other than yourself enjoy playing with a dynamic where the person on the bottom acts a certain way, by your own description, you most clearly do have a problem with tolerating their kink. Blanket assertions about 'no such thing as T.F.t.B.', and declaring someone who plays differently than you would like unfit to 'weild a flogger' is exactly that.

sirguym -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 6:25:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think? To an extent (s)he is correct. 'Topping from the bottom' means to me, indulging in manipulative behaviour to get what the bottom or submissive wants. Yes, if I realise someone with whom I have a relationship, or doing a play session, is doing that, I will be put 'on guard'. I will try to open up discussion, try to confirm I have the pattern aright, help them to realise whatthey're doing and warn them against doing it again. But for many new to the lifestyle, that is how they've learned to behave; or been taught to behave by having somebody ignore what they directly ask for. It will take them a lot of opening up and learning trust before they have the courage to communicate openly and establish proper communication with an oipen heart and mind. Some can make that transition, some can't, some try and fail, some aren't perhaps worth the effort to me - but may be so for another.

ELUSIVE1 -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 6:38:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirguym quote: ORIGINAL: ELUSIVE1 'There is No such thing as topping from the bottom, if I need to tell you what to do you are NO LONGER my TOP...' the words above came from a very well respected friend that gives presentations...I totally agree with her words, what do you think? To an extent (s)he is correct. 'Topping from the bottom' means to me, indulging in manipulative behaviour to get what the bottom or submissive wants. Yes, if I realise someone with whom I have a relationship, or doing a play session, is doing that, I will be put 'on guard'. I will try to open up discussion, try to confirm I have the pattern aright, help them to realise whatthey're doing and warn them against doing it again. But for many new to the lifestyle, that is how they've learned to behave; or been taught to behave by having somebody ignore what they directly ask for. It will take them a lot of opening up and learning trust before they have the courage to communicate openly and establish proper communication with an oipen heart and mind. Some can make that transition, some can't, some try and fail, some aren't perhaps worth the effort to me - but may be so for another. I agree SirGuyM- some aren't worth the effrort--the issue I have had is being contacted by new Dominants..I really try not to discount those that lack experience, and I have been used as a smart target by experienced people teaching the young new ones, then the new ones then say I top from the bottom?

SassySarijane -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 6:59:22 AM)
I do not think topping from the bottom is nonexistant. It exists, it's just that the term is way, way overused for things that aren't actually topping from the bottom.

chamberqueen -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 7:08:15 AM)
I can think of plenty of examples of topping from the bottom. Sometimes a sub will purposely act up to receive extra punishment. In my own relationship I may say, "If you do _____ then I can do ______ for you", suggesting something that I know will please my Master. Of course, it is up to the Dom/me whether they want to go along with it. The relationships where there is the most freedom in how the sub carries out the given task are more likely to leave room for the sub to have input into how the session goes. (Some relationships are extremely structured, others more free flowing, while some go back and forth between. It should really be up to each set of partners to decide what is best for them.) It is up to each relationship dynamic on whether and when to allow topping from the bottom, but I think that the blanket statement that it doesn't exist is untrue. Perhaps it doesn't exist in that particular relationship.

DesFIP -> RE: tops (4/26/2008 7:27:12 AM)
Wow, so your friend's top is a mind reader. Cool! I've always wanted to be able to do that. Just as I can guess wrong and think he would hot tea and discover he actually wants a cold drink, he can guess wrong and do something I don't like or can't handle also. And that's why I give feedback. Because he might not think to check that my hand is getting cold until it's already at the no feeling stage, by which point we have to stop what we were doing and get the circulation going again. It works out better for us if I tell him before it gets to that point. Funwise, how is he going to know if I have a sudden craving for the weighted nipple clamps and not the vibrating ones if I don't mention/beg/plead/communicate it? For us it's information.

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