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RE: Adding BDSM - 4/26/2008 4:57:30 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Is there something about a person giving or receiving their first bit of kink (real or imagined) cause them to lose their mind about obvious matters? Does the brain somehow become disconnected?

Apparently so in many cases. I have posted here about absolutely loathing the concept of sub "frenzy." That, to me, is what it implies. "I'm a submissive and I am so absolutely crazed with the desire to 'serve' that my brain no longer functions properly."

I like to think people really aren't like that but when I mention it, it's ignored and the concept of subbie frenzy in all it's greatness continues to be discussed

. Whatever works for ya. In my opinion, to even imply that, because I am submissive, I am incapable of utilizing good sense and proper decision making because I'm in some kind of common "frenzy," is utterly offensive. But, there seems to be many who buy into it, love talking about experiencing it and feel if others don't, they somehow aren't "doing their BDSM" right. Puhleeze...............luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 4/26/2008 4:58:28 PM >

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 21

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/26/2008 10:50:18 PM

MastrVran

Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

Lol...slaveluci, ok so you find the fact...and it definately is a fact that some people in the begining of this make some really hairbrained decisions based on their desire to serve, or submit and you are offended that they do so. Oh well. Nothing can be done about you opinion or feelings. They are yours. Doesnt change the fact that many do it anyway. Call it by what ever name doesnt offend you. Some subs just do things that most of the rational people we know would never do in a million years.

Ladypact,

You can give me a list of hundreds of things that you consider rational and wonder why they dont see it. I know there are thousands of people who married someone they have never met. I know more people who simply cant tell their partner of what they want or need sexually, there are lots of people who if you date them immediately consider you in a serious relationship..and no they arent right but so what? As for the pros charging? Whats that got to do with anything?

You dont buy naive and ignorant lol...thats your bias and problem. Many people qualify. All your points are wasted space because if they were doing what you consider to be rational things, they would not have made the mistakes they did in the first place. Try thinking it through. If they were making wise choices, doing web searches, attending munches and any other smart thing they should have done, then you would never have made this post.

The last idea of trusting the Dom...thats a natural given. Simply because he is supposedly someone you should trust. Is he actually? Maybe. But thats getting back to making naive choices and being ignorant of the idiots online. You dont like the definate fact that a lot of people are naive and ignorant? Too bad. They are. Do we as a community attempt to correct this problem? Most of us do. But stating it doesnt exist is just sticking your head in the sand. Good luck with that.

You and OB just seem to want to blame the submissive, not that I am saying they are not at fault. But I also understand that a great deal of the fault is with how this is portrayed, what the desires are that lead up to someone wanting to find a Dom/Master and how when they decide to do so, they get lots of bad info, make poor choices from ignorance, and end up in trouble. The bad info of course is supplied by the people luring them.

MV

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 22

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/26/2008 11:16:12 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I know we've been through this before, but it just seems to need to be said again.

I just came from the "Ask A Master" section, and a repeated problem was there yet again. It always seems to start with "I'm new" and then proceed to unfold to telling the 'problem'. The particulars don't matter much. It always seems to stem from questions about simple relationship problems. Things that would never even come into question if we were talking about vanilla relationships. Should I be happy? Is he just using me? How much information should I give out online? If the conversation didn't have the BDSM element, most people would wonder why these were even issues.

Not long ago, SimplyMicheal wrote a fabulous post about asking questions about whether or not a person was getting what they need. This was about the same time that SteelofUtah wrote his piece about common sense. Why is it that these things don't connect? Can someone explain this phenomenon to Me? Is there something about a person giving or receiving their first bit of kink (real or imagined) cause them to lose their mind about obvious matters? Does the brain somehow become disconnected? Take the word Dom/Master/Mistress etc. out of the question, and replace it with husband/boyfriend/lover and there are few that would doubt how easy the answer should be.

You're not accounting for 'subbie butt', Lady P.

"If situation XYZ were vanilla in nature, I could handle it .. but .. this is BDSM and I don't know where I stand, how I should behave. I don't know if I can say no, if I should say no, if I'll be accepted, rejected .. I'm so confused on what to do. I already think I'm weird, but maybe this is all normal for these freaks!"

I jumped in with very definite expectations both of those who called themselves Master and of myself as a submissive female who wanted to experience the 'force', the thrill, the dirty, sleezy and the wonderous fantasy I had built into my head. The reason these things would never be an issue in a vanilla relationship is because that's a 'known' and most of us have a good number of years dealing with those sorts of relationships. Brand spanking new, outta the package submissives have this huge new playing field and they don't have the playbook, they don't know the players, the moves or even which endzone to stand in for the touchdown. It's like expecting someone who's been taking ballet for 10 years to be a star quarterback on their first day in football when they've never even been in the stadium before.

Same holds true for the other side of the kneel as well. How many times does a new dominant send out "on your knees, slut" because they have the expectation that to do so is the mark of a master.

It really doesn't have anything to do with how adept someone may be at handling vanilla relationships if people don't realize that it's not all the different in D/s and let's face it, vanilla didn't work for those who found their way here, so why believe that the same sorts of relationship steps are going to work for D/s?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 23

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/26/2008 11:34:34 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Our "community" is full of retards....I heard we are making a bid for the Special Olympics in '11.
As far as the Olympic Torch goes....I've heard that there has been great confusion amongst our posters as to which end you should carry.

_____________________________

(in reply to Fischen)

Post #: 24

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/26/2008 11:36:52 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Our "community" is full of retards....I heard we are making a bid for the Special Olympics in '11.
As far as the Olympic Torch goes....I've heard that there has been great confusion amongst our posters as to which end you should carry.

OMG, that's it.
By the way, the Special Olympics is a yearly event, it will be held in May in my area next month.
Where is the love?
I almost spilled my wine, laughing.
Put down the jd, and go sleep it off buddy.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/26/2008 11:39:02 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 25

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 12:08:43 AM

Corvidae

Posts: 82
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline

I think it is not just BDSM, but relationships in general that put our brains on the fritz... having recently survived some college and four years of highschool, I have witnessed a plethora of vanilla relationship troubbles that from the outside seem ridiculously stupid (he is mean to you, ignores you, and makes fun of you behind your back... and you still want to be his girlfriend?) or (he is ridiculously obsessed with you and is annoyingly self centered and you don't find him attractive... but you can't get yourself to tell him you aren't interested in going on any more dates). It makes me want to bang my head

. I'd like to say this is just a symptom of being in our "formative years," but I have seen too many 40 and 50 year olds go through the same thing to think it is the case.

(in reply to Fischen)

Post #: 26

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 3:59:06 AM

OldBastardly1

Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

Lol...slaveluci, ok so you find the fact...and it definately is a fact that some people in the begining of this make some really hairbrained decisions based on their desire to serve, or submit and you are offended that they do so. Oh well. Nothing can be done about you opinion or feelings. They are yours. Doesnt change the fact that many do it anyway. Call it by what ever name doesnt offend you. Some subs just do things that most of the rational people we know would never do in a million years.

Ladypact,

You can give me a list of hundreds of things that you consider rational and wonder why they dont see it. I know there are thousands of people who married someone they have never met. I know more people who simply cant tell their partner of what they want or need sexually, there are lots of people who if you date them immediately consider you in a serious relationship..and no they arent right but so what? As for the pros charging? Whats that got to do with anything?

You dont buy naive and ignorant lol...thats your bias and problem. Many people qualify. All your points are wasted space because if they were doing what you consider to be rational things, they would not have made the mistakes they did in the first place. Try thinking it through. If they were making wise choices, doing web searches, attending munches and any other smart thing they should have done, then you would never have made this post.

The last idea of trusting the Dom...thats a natural given. Simply because he is supposedly someone you should trust. Is he actually? Maybe. But thats getting back to making naive choices and being ignorant of the idiots online. You dont like the definate fact that a lot of people are naive and ignorant? Too bad. They are. Do we as a community attempt to correct this problem? Most of us do. But stating it doesnt exist is just sticking your head in the sand. Good luck with that.

You and OB just seem to want to blame the submissive, not that I am saying they are not at fault. But I also understand that a great deal of the fault is with how this is portrayed, what the desires are that lead up to someone wanting to find a Dom/Master and how when they decide to do so, they get lots of bad info, make poor choices from ignorance, and end up in trouble. The bad info of course is supplied by the people luring them.

MV

Who should be blamed? The submissive who is naive and ignorant? The "dom" who exploits this behavior and insists that it is normal to be expected? The guy who is adamant about not teaching the "innocent" that they don't have to be naive and ignorant?
I have met many guys who claim to be Masters or Doms that like to prey on this naivete. They spout a load of B.S. trying to sound all-knowing and to the naive and ignorant it sometimes works. This same B.S. doesn't work as well with an experienced submissive. So I can understand their interest in not wanting to put light on this and remind subs that simple, common sense rules still apply, especially before a real dynamic is in place.

_____________________________

Old Bastard

"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad

(in reply to MastrVran)

Post #: 27

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 4:53:25 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

Human beings have this strange ability to see other people as extra-human in certain circumstances. Caesar and Pharoh as both King and God. Look at how fans treat celebrities! They will pluck at their clothing, tear out their hair, accost at a restaurant, chase and other behaviors they would never ever dream of doing to "normal" people. That's because in the mind of the 'devoted fan' the celebrity is an Icon, not another human being.

So it stands to reason that some people are out to meet a Dominant or a submissive and these become Icons in their minds, not fellow humans, not ordinary people.

We need lables to a degree, but it is those lables that may tend to dehumanize us so that people will forget that they are dealing with interpersonal relationships rather than fanasty.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 28

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 5:39:12 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

It seems we have a mild disagreement between the views of LP and those of Mastrvan. But they are not that far apart to me. Sure, everyone has a responsibility for their own actions. I’ve told submissives this and criticized their past poor behavior which they attempt to blame on the fact they were newbies and didn’t know what they were supposed to do in the heat of the sub frenzy.

However, after establishing there is no excuse for bad behavior, let’s also warn about the dangers of entering the world of bdsm. Once a woman experiences bdsm, our type of sex and spaces, she is going to be different and malleable. That first spacing and aftercare does remarkable things to the psyche. I’ve told newbies the same thing and they thanked me later for letting them know what to expect. Why not warn them? They won’t have that excuse to use later when they say they regret doing some of the things they did.

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 4/27/2008 5:40:01 AM >

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 29

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 6:45:43 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran
Lol...slaveluci, ok so you find the fact...and it definately is a fact that some people in the begining of this make some really hairbrained decisions based on their desire to serve, or submit and you are offended that they do so. Oh well. Nothing can be done about you opinion or feelings. They are yours. Doesnt change the fact that many do it anyway. Call it by what ever name doesnt offend you. Some subs just do things that most of the rational people we know would never do in a million years.

Now, now. That's not what I said. I'm not offended that other people make "hairbrained decisions based on their desire to serve or submit." That's their own problem. I do pity the desperation that it smells of in many cases though. What "offends" me is when it is assumed that I - me - moi can't HELP BUT join them since I am submissive and we ALL go into some kind of mindless frenzy that we can't fight. THAT is the offensive part. Let the masses "frenzy" away. Just don't include me in it. Nothing needs to "be done about" my opinions and feelings. As you say, they ARE mine and thereby are absolutely valid for ME. Many apparently do lose their little subbie minds at the first sniff of dominance. Just not me. That's all I was sayin'............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to MastrVran)

Post #: 30

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 7:01:27 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

~ Fast Reply ~

quote:

The problem realistically though is that the feelings that brings most submissives to this lifestyle is the desire to be controlled. And since they desire to be controlled

Vran,
This is a flawed assumption.

Forget the labels for a moment, sub/dom whatever; what brings most or at least many people to what is collectively called "lifestyle" is a desire for a sensation. Sometimes that sensation includes sex, sometimes it doesn't.

What you view as a "desire to be controlled" is again, in many cases, the compromise willing to be endured to experience the desired sensation. Call it 'topping from the bottom' if you want, but it's a equitable exchange of doing one action to facilitate receiving another. 'Control' becomes less when the sensation gets old or the sensation provider becomes boring.

There is no 'good' or 'bad' aspect of this dynamic. It is a good exchange. Compatible and complimentary desires shared between people are wonderful experiences. However, there should be communication and clarity so that neither partner is surprised about the goal, agenda, and the ultimate result.

A person may represent themselves as a submissive because they want to experience sensations on the receiving side of the flogger. In many cases 'control' isn't being given, its being used as 'payment'. Again, nothing 'wrong' with that exchange. They are a LOT of fun and fulfilling. A complimentary sensation relationship driven by compatible desires is a gateway for new experiences. Based upon personal experience this is much more common than a relationship where one person wants to and acts upon completely and irrevocable surrendering all power and control to another.

(in reply to MastrVran)

Post #: 31

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 8:51:04 AM

MastrVran

Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran
Lol...slaveluci, ok so you find the fact...and it definately is a fact that some people in the begining of this make some really hairbrained decisions based on their desire to serve, or submit and you are offended that they do so. Oh well. Nothing can be done about you opinion or feelings. They are yours. Doesnt change the fact that many do it anyway. Call it by what ever name doesnt offend you. Some subs just do things that most of the rational people we know would never do in a million years.

Now, now. That's not what I said. I'm not offended that other people make "hairbrained decisions based on their desire to serve or submit." That's their own problem. I do pity the desperation that it smells of in many cases though. What "offends" me is when it is assumed that I - me - moi can't HELP BUT join them since I am submissive and we ALL go into some kind of mindless frenzy that we can't fight. THAT is the offensive part. Let the masses "frenzy" away. Just don't include me in it. Nothing needs to "be done about" my opinions and feelings. As you say, they ARE mine and thereby are absolutely valid for ME. Many apparently do lose their little subbie minds at the first sniff of dominance. Just not me. That's all I was sayin'............luci

Smiles...that is exactly as things should be. Everyone can make mistakes and do dumb things. Sorry I misunderstood your offense. lol.

I dont include anyone in this naive and ignorant sub frenzying idea. However, since many fit, I also dont exclude any from possibly having been in it or it being possible to draw someone in. I am glad you know yourself and make wise choices. Wish we had more people who would do this. Not that my wishes or hopes mean anything for you really. lol. Nor would my condemnation either.

We all see things our own way. Some times that way is similar to others.

MV

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 32

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 8:55:56 AM

MastrVran

Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
quote:

The problem realistically though is that the feelings that brings most submissives to this lifestyle is the desire to be controlled. And since they desire to be controlled

Vran,
This is a flawed assumption.

Forget the labels for a moment, sub/dom whatever; what brings most or at least many people to what is collectively called "lifestyle" is a desire for a sensation. Sometimes that sensation includes sex, sometimes it doesn't.

What you view as a "desire to be controlled" is again, in many cases, the compromise willing to be endured to experience the desired sensation. Call it 'topping from the bottom' if you want, but it's a equitable exchange of doing one action to facilitate receiving another. 'Control' becomes less when the sensation gets old or the sensation provider becomes boring.

There is no 'good' or 'bad' aspect of this dynamic. It is a good exchange. Compatible and complimentary desires shared between people are wonderful experiences. However, there should be communication and clarity so that neither partner is surprised about the goal, agenda, and the ultimate result.

A person may represent themselves as a submissive because they want to experience sensations on the receiving side of the flogger. In many cases 'control' isn't being given, its being used as 'payment'. Again, nothing 'wrong' with that exchange. They are a LOT of fun and fulfilling. A complimentary sensation relationship driven by compatible desires is a gateway for new experiences. Based upon personal experience this is much more common than a relationship where one person wants to and acts upon completely and irrevocable surrendering all power and control to another.

I dont see it as a flawed assumption because I wasnt applying it to being a bottom, which is more what you seem to be describing. looking for sensations rather than for someone to submit to, has for most people I know been considered bottoming. Now some may say because they want to be the floggee they are submissive, that to me does not make them so. And so most of them would not be drawn into giving someone else control over them but simply allow or look for someone to flog them or give them the sensation they are looking for. Not that this also does not expose them to being used by someone who can maybe manipulate them, and take them places they did not desire to go.

MV

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 33

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 9:00:32 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain
That first spacing and aftercare does remarkable things to the psyche.

Well that explains it! i've never felt 'sub-frenzy' because i have never felt sub-space! whooo hooo!!

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 34

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 9:18:50 AM

MastrVran

Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

Who should be blamed? The submissive who is naive and ignorant? The "dom" who exploits this behavior and insists that it is normal to be expected? The guy who is adamant about not teaching the "innocent" that they don't have to be naive and ignorant?
I have met many guys who claim to be Masters or Doms that like to prey on this naivete. They spout a load of B.S. trying to sound all-knowing and to the naive and ignorant it sometimes works. This same B.S. doesn't work as well with an experienced submissive. So I can understand their interest in not wanting to put light on this and remind subs that simple, common sense rules still apply, especially before a real dynamic is in place.

Well...lets think about it for a sec, I am not saying that there is not some responsibility that should be applied to the submissive. They are adults and have to accept, or should accept their own mistakes. But my point more than anything else is that as they are entering this lifestyle, they come in with certain feelings and beliefs, that lead them to seek someone to trust. They are more vulnerable than most people because of this desire. Its not like finding a boyfriend who you decide to go to a movie with.

Over the years, I can't tell you how often I have heard ,as an example, one phrase that always sets my teeth on edge, "I am just going over to his house to be tied up and flogged." There are other phrases, but that one shows me that the person making it while not stupid, is ignorant and making a very naive decision. They think they are safe for some reason because they are just going to be flogged. They ignore the fact that once tied, all bets are off. Their ability to change things just went out the window. And when this is pointed out, the usual answer is, "We have talked about it and thats all he will do." When asked how well they know him? The answer is usually oh we have talked a bit, or I saw him at a club once or some other statement indicating no real knowledge of this person.

So what I see is not stupid people, just trusting people. And quite often, only time, making mistakes, and getting hurt will teach people. Even explaining the danger to these people, is often ignored because they just can't or won't believe it. They have "talked" to this person and just "know" they can trust them. Worst one I can remember off hand was a girl just into this, who told me she was going to see a guy to be tied up, flogged and maybe some more stuff. I asked her the usual questions about how well she knew him and so forth. They had talked for several months, met for coffee in a public place, he was nice and gentle and sweet and seemed great. I reminded her that once tied she lost all choices unless he allowed her any. She laughed, he would never hurt her.

I spent several months helping her recover from that visit. And no she never would go to the police. She blamed herself for what happpened. She walked in...he was wonderful, he helped her take her shirt off...tied her gently to a pole, flogged her a while, then started getting rougher and rougher, harder and harder, cussing her out for being worthless and other things, until she was black and blue, did a lot of other things to her, then tossed her in a closet for hours. When he let her go, he was nice and sweet again.

She never could figure out what 'she' had done to make him act that way. She did finally understand that allowing someone to tie her eliminated her ability to stop anything from happening. We as a people have been taught that saying no and stop "makes" that happen. The truth is it does not, but so often today, people believe they can stop anything by saying stop.

MV

(in reply to OldBastardly1)

Post #: 35

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 9:23:10 AM

MastrVran

Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

It seems we have a mild disagreement between the views of LP and those of Mastrvan. But they are not that far apart to me. Sure, everyone has a responsibility for their own actions. I’ve told submissives this and criticized their past poor behavior which they attempt to blame on the fact they were newbies and didn’t know what they were supposed to do in the heat of the sub frenzy.

However, after establishing there is no excuse for bad behavior, let’s also warn about the dangers of entering the world of bdsm. Once a woman experiences bdsm, our type of sex and spaces, she is going to be different and malleable. That first spacing and aftercare does remarkable things to the psyche. I’ve told newbies the same thing and they thanked me later for letting them know what to expect. Why not warn them? They won’t have that excuse to use later when they say they regret doing some of the things they did.

I am all for warning, the problem is as I explained to OB in the post that should be above this one, is that many people are just too trusting and believe what they are told because the person seems nice.

MV

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 36

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 9:26:54 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

The desire to experience a sensation is not limited to the physical aspects of "play". Sensations definitely include the mental and emotional. So putting aside any desire to experience the sensation of physical BDSM play, a new dominant or submissive can "frenzy" over the desire to experience the mental and emotional aspects of dominance and submission.

Why do you think so many of us get the emotional and mental warm fuzzies over doing "mundane" things for him/her? Or get wet from doing something for him/her that we really don't enjoy or want to do?

I'm sure new dominants get the same rush when they command something to be done...... and it gets done. When their sub/slave asks their permission to (fill in the blank). And so forth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
Vran,
This is a flawed assumption.

Forget the labels for a moment, sub/dom whatever; what brings most or at least many people to what is collectively called "lifestyle" is a desire for a sensation. Sometimes that sensation includes sex, sometimes it doesn't.

What you view as a "desire to be controlled" is again, in many cases, the compromise willing to be endured to experience the desired sensation. Call it 'topping from the bottom' if you want, but it's a equitable exchange of doing one action to facilitate receiving another. 'Control' becomes less when the sensation gets old or the sensation provider becomes boring.

There is no 'good' or 'bad' aspect of this dynamic. It is a good exchange. Compatible and complimentary desires shared between people are wonderful experiences. However, there should be communication and clarity so that neither partner is surprised about the goal, agenda, and the ultimate result.

A person may represent themselves as a submissive because they want to experience sensations on the receiving side of the flogger. In many cases 'control' isn't being given, its being used as 'payment'. Again, nothing 'wrong' with that exchange. They are a LOT of fun and fulfilling. A complimentary sensation relationship driven by compatible desires is a gateway for new experiences. Based upon personal experience this is much more common than a relationship where one person wants to and acts upon completely and irrevocable surrendering all power and control to another.

I dont see it as a flawed assumption because I wasnt applying it to being a bottom, which is more what you seem to be describing. looking for sensations rather than for someone to submit to, has for most people I know been considered bottoming. Now some may say because they want to be the floggee they are submissive, that to me does not make them so. And so most of them would not be drawn into giving someone else control over them but simply allow or look for someone to flog them or give them the sensation they are looking for. Not that this also does not expose them to being used by someone who can maybe manipulate them, and take them places they did not desire to go.

MV

(in reply to MastrVran)

Post #: 37

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 9:39:02 AM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I know we've been through this before, but it just seems to need to be said again.

I just came from the "Ask A Master" section, and a repeated problem was there yet again. It always seems to start with "I'm new" and then proceed to unfold to telling the 'problem'. The particulars don't matter much. It always seems to stem from questions about simple relationship problems. Things that would never even come into question if we were talking about vanilla relationships. Should I be happy? Is he just using me? How much information should I give out online? If the conversation didn't have the BDSM element, most people would wonder why these were even issues.

I have to disagree with the premise of this post. That BDSM folks are somehow "stupider" in relationships issues. Spend some time reading the advice column in your local paper. Stupidity abounds and is a equal opportunity employer.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 38

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 9:43:45 AM

Poetryinpain

Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
Many apparently do lose their little subbie minds at the first sniff of dominance. Just not me.

That was rather judgemental and more than a little offensive, IMO. Just because you managed to keep on an even keel (for which I commend you, BTW), that doesn't mean that those who succumbed to sub frenzy are less of a person or less of a submissive.

I freely confess to having lost my "little subbie mind" at the beginning. I'm not proud of it, but I don't believe that I should be belittled or demeaned for having given in.

I don't know your history, so I don't know if you came into BDSM early or after years of vanilla relationships, or if you simply have superior power of mind (not meant sarcastically). However, to put down submissives who experience sub frenzy as having "little subbie minds" was, IMO un-called for.

pip, I don't usually take offense, but ...

_____________________________

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 39

RE: Adding BDSM - 4/27/2008 10:46:38 AM

MastrVran

Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

The desire to experience a sensation is not limited to the physical aspects of "play". Sensations definitely include the mental and emotional. So putting aside any desire to experience the sensation of physical BDSM play, a new dominant or submissive can "frenzy" over the desire to experience the mental and emotional aspects of dominance and submission.

Why do you think so many of us get the emotional and mental warm fuzzies over doing "mundane" things for him/her? Or get wet from doing something for him/her that we really don't enjoy or want to do?

I'm sure new dominants get the same rush when they command something to be done...... and it gets done. When their sub/slave asks their permission to (fill in the blank). And so forth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
Vran,
This is a flawed assumption.

Forget the labels for a moment, sub/dom whatever; what brings most or at least many people to what is collectively called "lifestyle" is a desire for a sensation. Sometimes that sensation includes sex, sometimes it doesn't.

What you view as a "desire to be controlled" is again, in many cases, the compromise willing to be endured to experience the desired sensation. Call it 'topping from the bottom' if you want, but it's a equitable exchange of doing one action to facilitate receiving another. 'Control' becomes less when the sensation gets old or the sensation provider becomes boring.

There is no 'good' or 'bad' aspect of this dynamic. It is a good exchange. Compatible and complimentary desires shared between people are wonderful experiences. However, there should be communication and clarity so that neither partner is surprised about the goal, agenda, and the ultimate result.

A person may represent themselves as a submissive because they want to experience sensations on the receiving side of the flogger. In many cases 'control' isn't being given, its being used as 'payment'. Again, nothing 'wrong' with that exchange. They are a LOT of fun and fulfilling. A complimentary sensation relationship driven by compatible desires is a gateway for new experiences. Based upon personal experience this is much more common than a relationship where one person wants to and acts upon completely and irrevocable surrendering all power and control to another.

I dont see it as a flawed assumption because I wasnt applying it to being a bottom, which is more what you seem to be describing. looking for sensations rather than for someone to submit to, has for most people I know been considered bottoming. Now some may say because they want to be the floggee they are submissive, that to me does not make them so. And so most of them would not be drawn into giving someone else control over them but simply allow or look for someone to flog them or give them the sensation they are looking for. Not that this also does not expose them to being used by someone who can maybe manipulate them, and take them places they did not desire to go.

MV

BRNaughtyAngel

Hmmm...I think we are saying the same thing, you are just saying that wanting to be flogged might also include wanting the submissive things also. I am not arguing any of that. Just was pointing out that some are strictly in it for the physical sensations, and they are normally bottoms. Can they also frenzy? Sure, but they are not looking for someone to submit to usually, they are looking for someone to give them good floggings or what ever they are seeking. They normally arent as quick to allow some things because it would not be part of the sensation they are seeking. A submissive wants to give up control at least for a while to someone else. And so there is a much wider latitude that seems acceptable to them.

Example. I want to do needle play to your back, take your pants and undies off too. Oh and I am going to tie you up.

Huh? Doesnt sound reasonable. Could it be worked to sound reasonable? Sure. But some things just dont make sense. Yet for a submissive, being stripped doesnt sound unreasonable since they are trusting this person in a more general way rather than seeking a specific type of play.

MV

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 40

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