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RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 8:56:09 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What if the person doesn`t drive,can`t or doesn`t want to get a DL?


They do not need one.

quote:


What if they don`t have a car or access to one and/or can`t afford cab fare to get to the DMV office?


Lots of non-partisan groups out there that with a phone call, will send someone to pick you up, assist in getting you registered, and then drive you home. Some will even include lunch in the deal. Some partisan groups work through the community in other ways.

quote:


What if they`re home bound or can`t physically get to the DMV office?


This is an easy one: From the Georgia Law

Absentee Voting
A voter who requests an absentee ballot by mail is not required to provide a reason why he or she is voting absentee.
You may vote by absentee ballot in person if:

You will be absent from your precinct from 7:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. on election day.
You are 75 years of age or older.
You have a physical disability which prevents you from voting in person or you are a constant caregiver of a person with a disability.
You are an election official.
You are observing a religious holiday which prevents you from voting in person.
You are required to remain on duty in your precinct for the protection of life, health, or safety of the public.
An elector may cast an absentee ballot in person at the registrar's office during the period of Monday through Friday of the week immediately preceding the date of the election without having to provide a reason.

How do I apply for an absentee ballot?
You may request an absentee ballot as early as 180 days before an election. Absentee ballots must be received by the county board of registrars' office by 7:00 p.m. on election day. No absentee ballots are issued on the day before or the day of an election. You may download an application for official absentee/advance ballot and mail it or fax it to your county board of registrars' office. The application must be in writing and contain the address to which the ballot is to be mailed, sufficient information to identify you as a voter, and the election in which you wish to vote - no reason is required when requesting an absentee ballot by mail. If you are physically disabled or living temporarily outside your county of residence, a close relative may apply for an absentee ballot for you.
Applications for absentee ballots by uniformed or overseas voters (pursuant to the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act) can be accepted more than 180 days prior to a primary or election in which a federal candidate appears on the ballot as well as for any runoffs resulting therefrom including presidential preference primaries for two general elections.
quote:



And WTF likes going to the DMV in the 1st place?Going to the dentist is better than going to the DMV ,here in Jersey.



Going to any government agency is bad. Just wait till they run all the medical care and see how pleasant it is. As far as likes, it comes down to what do they like more, their right to vote or be lazy because they do not want to go. I understand those that may not be able to go, but this comment is about those that just do not want to bother. If they do not want to bother, then I say they shouldn't have a vote.

quote:


There are plenty of people who don`t have official ID for whatever reason.They`ve lost their papers or they were destroyed.They`re elderly and lost them along the way and can`t afford or know how to get new ones.


Could you provide any projections from sources? I would be interested in seeing exactly who and the projection of how many do not have some form of acceptable ID.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
quote:


And for your snarky comment about useless terms,.....there is such a thing as people who live on a fixed amount of money.

People who can`t or don`t work (retired,disabled,indigent,ill) and have a certain "fixed" income and no more.

Most people(healthy ones) can get a better paying job,work a 2nd-3rd-4th job,put the wife to work,get a loan,etc.

The term "fixed income" refers to the folks who don`t have those options.


That may be how you are using it, but if you look at any financial or accounting sites, you will see that it means something that yields a fixed amount of money on a recurring basis.

quote:


Some day little girl,you`ll be an elderly frail women,living on a fixed income.If you`re lucky,you`ll have food,clothes,a home and some mad money to have fun with.


People should plan for it, and not expect society to provide for them. We as a people in the US have become lazy and feel everything should just be given to us, and it should not have to be earned.

quote:


But there are millions and millions of folks who live on the very edge and sometimes have to choose between food and medicine or food and heating oil or food and rent.


Been there myself, and grew up in it. You do a little more to survive. Those that can't must seek assistance from either family, friends, or the State. In contrast to what the alternatives used to be, it is better but it also breeds this inane concept that the State must take care of you.  Die or live has been one of the greatest motivators of humans since time began.
quote:


Whether you give a shit or not,these people really do exist.Pray you don`t join them.


Rather than pray, I will spend the effort on working harder, working smarter, and planning as much as possible. Those are the things that will increase your chance of success.
quote:


Those are the folks that these laws target.This is the demographic that votes democratic and the people(conservatives) behind these shit laws, know it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Partisan rhetoric. There are so many voter registration groups out there, it is idiocy to believe this law will keep those groups from taking people to get registered and to vote.

quote:


There is no voter fraud problem.More people get struck by lightning than commit voter fraud.


They still make lightning rods for just that occasion. Personally I would rather see people get struck dead by lightning, and our voting process be as tamper proof as possible.
quote:


People pretending to be acting for a higher cause in this ,are full of shit.


So says Judge Owner. I have pointed out on many occasions that your standards do not apply equally. You saying someone is full of shit, is rather funny.

quote:


They made the pol tax illegal decades ago,which was less than 5 bucks back then.


Add in inflation and what would it be today? That five bucks is not going to keep people from voting. You are promoting hysterics now.

quote:


How much money and time will it take for someone to get an official state photo ID?


Most already have it if they do any banking what so ever.
quote:


This is another form of pol tax,designed to disenfranchise legit voters.


The system of politicians that are not servants of the people, combined with the political cheerleading likely disenfranchises more voters than this will ever come close to.


I see plenty of posters who want to make it harder for Americans to vote.

We should be making it easier.


I could say I see plenty of people wanting to have non-citizens vote, that are gainst this, but it is likely not true. It does not make it that much more difficult. People such as you, will always have something bad to say, unless it is your team......I mean political party, that is doing it.

You don't care that much for liberty, if you did then you would know it needs to be earned and not just given to you.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 8:59:29 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks Archer, but it was a set up for the person stating those things. My Mom, and all of her 8 siblings were born at home. One of them had to be renamed because they just called him G.T. on the original submited certificate, so when he went to enlist the Army just put the paperwork through for him to be called George Thomas. Anyway, it is funny to watch at people grasp for the obscure, as justification to do or not do something.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 1:05:10 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What if the person doesn`t drive,can`t or doesn`t want to get a DL?


They do not need one.

quote:


What if they don`t have a car or access to one and/or can`t afford cab fare to get to the DMV office?


Lots of non-partisan groups out there that with a phone call, will send someone to pick you up, assist in getting you registered, and then drive you home. Some will even include lunch in the deal. Some partisan groups work through the community in other ways.

quote:


What if they`re home bound or can`t physically get to the DMV office?


This is an easy one: From the Georgia Law

Absentee Voting
A voter who requests an absentee ballot by mail is not required to provide a reason why he or she is voting absentee.
You may vote by absentee ballot in person if:

You will be absent from your precinct from 7:00 a.m. until 7:00 p.m. on election day.
You are 75 years of age or older.
You have a physical disability which prevents you from voting in person or you are a constant caregiver of a person with a disability.
You are an election official.
You are observing a religious holiday which prevents you from voting in person.
You are required to remain on duty in your precinct for the protection of life, health, or safety of the public.
An elector may cast an absentee ballot in person at the registrar's office during the period of Monday through Friday of the week immediately preceding the date of the election without having to provide a reason.





    How do I apply for an absentee ballot?
    You may request an absentee ballot as early as 180 days before an election. Absentee ballots must be received by the county board of registrars' office by 7:00 p.m. on election day. No absentee ballots are issued on the day before or the day of an election. You may download an application for official absentee/advance ballot and mail it or fax it to your county board of registrars' office. The application must be in writing and contain the address to which the ballot is to be mailed, sufficient information to identify you as a voter, and the election in which you wish to vote - no reason is required when requesting an absentee ballot by mail. If you are physically disabled or living temporarily outside your county of residence, a close relative may apply for an absentee ballot for you.
    Applications for absentee ballots by uniformed or overseas voters (pursuant to the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act) can be accepted more than 180 days prior to a primary or election in which a federal candidate appears on the ballot as well as for any runoffs resulting therefrom including presidential preference primaries for two general elections.
    quote:



    And WTF likes going to the DMV in the 1st place?Going to the dentist is better than going to the DMV ,here in Jersey.



    Going to any government agency is bad. Just wait till they run all the medical care and see how pleasant it is. As far as likes, it comes down to what do they like more, their right to vote or be lazy because they do not want to go. I understand those that may not be able to go, but this comment is about those that just do not want to bother. If they do not want to bother, then I say they shouldn't have a vote.

    quote:


    There are plenty of people who don`t have official ID for whatever reason.They`ve lost their papers or they were destroyed.They`re elderly and lost them along the way and can`t afford or know how to get new ones.


    Could you provide any projections from sources? I would be interested in seeing exactly who and the projection of how many do not have some form of acceptable ID.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    quote:


    And for your snarky comment about useless terms,.....there is such a thing as people who live on a fixed amount of money.

    People who can`t or don`t work (retired,disabled,indigent,ill) and have a certain "fixed" income and no more.

    Most people(healthy ones) can get a better paying job,work a 2nd-3rd-4th job,put the wife to work,get a loan,etc.

    The term "fixed income" refers to the folks who don`t have those options.


    That may be how you are using it, but if you look at any financial or accounting sites, you will see that it means something that yields a fixed amount of money on a recurring basis.

    quote:


    Some day little girl,you`ll be an elderly frail women,living on a fixed income.If you`re lucky,you`ll have food,clothes,a home and some mad money to have fun with.


    People should plan for it, and not expect society to provide for them. We as a people in the US have become lazy and feel everything should just be given to us, and it should not have to be earned.

    quote:


    But there are millions and millions of folks who live on the very edge and sometimes have to choose between food and medicine or food and heating oil or food and rent.


    Been there myself, and grew up in it. You do a little more to survive. Those that can't must seek assistance from either family, friends, or the State. In contrast to what the alternatives used to be, it is better but it also breeds this inane concept that the State must take care of you.  Die or live has been one of the greatest motivators of humans since time began.
    quote:


    Whether you give a shit or not,these people really do exist.Pray you don`t join them.


    Rather than pray, I will spend the effort on working harder, working smarter, and planning as much as possible. Those are the things that will increase your chance of success.
    quote:


    Those are the folks that these laws target.This is the demographic that votes democratic and the people(conservatives) behind these shit laws, know it.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Partisan rhetoric. There are so many voter registration groups out there, it is idiocy to believe this law will keep those groups from taking people to get registered and to vote.

    quote:


    There is no voter fraud problem.More people get struck by lightning than commit voter fraud.


    They still make lightning rods for just that occasion. Personally I would rather see people get struck dead by lightning, and our voting process be as tamper proof as possible.
    quote:


    People pretending to be acting for a higher cause in this ,are full of shit.


    So says Judge Owner. I have pointed out on many occasions that your standards do not apply equally. You saying someone is full of shit, is rather funny.

    quote:


    They made the pol tax illegal decades ago,which was less than 5 bucks back then.


    Add in inflation and what would it be today? That five bucks is not going to keep people from voting. You are promoting hysterics now.

    quote:


    How much money and time will it take for someone to get an official state photo ID?


    Most already have it if they do any banking what so ever.
    quote:


    This is another form of pol tax,designed to disenfranchise legit voters.


    The system of politicians that are not servants of the people, combined with the political cheerleading likely disenfranchises more voters than this will ever come close to.


    I see plenty of posters who want to make it harder for Americans to vote.

    We should be making it easier.


    I could say I see plenty of people wanting to have non-citizens vote, that are gainst this, but it is likely not true. It does not make it that much more difficult. People such as you, will always have something bad to say, unless it is your team......I mean political party, that is doing it.

    You don't care that much for liberty, if you did then you would know it needs to be earned and not just given to you.




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "I could say I see plenty of people wanting to have non-citizens vote"

    That`s a bunch of shit.

    Who are these people?Specifically,who are they?

    Here`s your chance to prove a point.

    Name these people wanting to have non-citizens vote.Note,a Michelle Malkin site doesn`t count.A real source with real,credible,verifiable facts.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Your last statement shows you have no clue what liberty is.

    It`s certainly not something to be challenged or limited, by the likes of you or the other neo-cons.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    General reply.

    Liberty,is for every American.Any limit on liberty is an anathema to her and every citizen`s rights."Of,by and for" refers to everybody,not "most".From the top down to it`s lowest level.No one`s excluded(accept felons).

    My liberty is god given and I, nor any other American should stand for assclowns trying to limit it,in any shape or form,no matter what the guise or excuse.
    .
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."  Ben Franklin

    Who do you think Ben`s talking about?

    < Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/2/2008 1:43:10 PM >

    (in reply to OrionTheWolf)
    Profile   Post #: 63
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 1:29:25 PM   
    Marc2b


    Posts: 6660
    Joined: 8/7/2006
    Status: offline     		All these "what if..., what if..." excuses against Voter ID laws are a great example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.

    _____________________________

    Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

    (in reply to OrionTheWolf)
    Profile   Post #: 64
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 1:34:25 PM   
    Owner59


    Posts: 17033
    Joined: 3/14/2006
    From: Dirty Jersey
    Status: offline     		http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1209759969-m2UZLNfa+3hpuOxBfwkBSw



    "Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews."


    (in reply to OrionTheWolf)
    Profile   Post #: 65
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 1:36:52 PM   
    burningdesires47


    Posts: 120
    Joined: 2/22/2007
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Owner59



    What if the person doesn`t drive,can`t or doesn`t want to get a DL?

    Then.... they don't.... is there a state in the union that doesn't supply state non-driver's license IDs? Haven't heard of one yet. If nothing else they can get a passport.
    quote:


    What if they don`t have a car or access to one and/or can`t afford cab fare to get to the DMV office?

    What if they`re home bound or can`t physically get to the DMV office?

    Now I realize I'm spoiled and I live in a very small town that happens to have a very useless bus system, but it is a bus system. But I also know of no less than 10 different groups in my very small town that drive people--of either political party--to the polls, or to get registered, or to get IDs, etc. Meals on Wheels, a national organization, does it. If someone is so homebound that they can't get to the DMV/Secretary of State all by their lonesome, then they are also having someone COME OVER to get them their food, and usually transport them to their Dr appts.

    Frankly, I'm worried about the people who actually vote already, not the ones who don't. It's only a problem if the people who already vote are not going to be able to. Too homebound to get to a government office? Who in their right mind thinks that person is going to vote?

    Let's not ignore the fact that to REGISTER to vote, you had to show ID. And no, you don't need to show ID right now, you're just supposed to show your voter ID card... which you had to show ID to get.... or else they match your signature to the one they have on file from when you registered. With your ID. So you show ID either way, what's the problem with doing it every time instead of just once?

    quote:


    And WTF likes going to the DMV in the 1st place?Going to the dentist is better than going to the DMV ,here in Jersey.
    WTF likes voting? I'm sorry your local office sucks, that doesn't mean everyone's does. And the people who are too lazy to go to the DMV? Also too lazy to vote. "Not Liking" something is a totally lame excuse.


    There are plenty of people who don`t have official ID for whatever reason.They`ve lost their papers or they were destroyed.They`re elderly and lost them along the way and can`t afford or know how to get new ones.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    quote:


    And for your snarky comment about useless terms,.....there is such a thing as people who live on a fixed amount of money.

    People who can`t or don`t work (retired,disabled,indigent,ill) and have a certain "fixed" income and no more.

    Most people(healthy ones) can get a better paying job,work a 2nd-3rd-4th job,put the wife to work,get a loan,etc.

    The term "fixed income" refers to the folks who don`t have those options.

    Some day little girl,you`ll be an elderly frail women,living on a fixed income.If you`re lucky,you`ll have food,clothes,a home and some mad money to have fun with.

    But there are millions and millions of folks who live on the very edge and sometimes have to choose between food and medicine or food and heating oil or food and rent.

    Whether you give a shit or not,these people really do exist.Pray you don`t join them.

    Those are the folks that these laws target.This is the demographic that votes democratic and the people(conservatives) behind these shit laws, know it.


    I actually wasn't being snarky. I'm being realistic.

    I understand that there are people who don't work. I understand that people have to choose between food and whatever. I've been there, both sides of that, for a number of reasons. I'm not too far beyond it, and it's still haunting me, still impacting my life. So no, I won't PRAY I won't join them, I'll make sure I don't go back there by using my resources.

    And funny, how all those resources all require me to have AN ID. And that I get pestered to register to vote every time I use any kind of government service, whereby they ASK FOR MY ID. (Of course, they say "Can I have your ID? Among other things I need it to register you to vote." "I'm already registered to vote." "Oh great. I still need your ID.")

    Get a check? Need ID. Don't have a bank account? Need ID to cash it, even at the cash-checking places. Have a bank account? Needed ID to get it.

    "It's too hard" is not a reason. It's a whiny excuse by people who are too lazy to take care of the responsibility that goes hand-in-hand with having a right or a privilege. And yes, I contend that having the right to vote is a privilege, one that we should not give lightly, given that so many people in this world don't even have the ability to do so. THOSE people wouldn't be whining about having to have an ID to vote, they'd be all too happy to have the opportunity. Want to vote? Take the responsibility that goes with it. One of them is proving you are who you say you are.

    (in reply to Owner59)
    Profile   Post #: 66
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 1:53:48 PM   
    Owner59


    Posts: 17033
    Joined: 3/14/2006
    From: Dirty Jersey
    Status: offline     		"yes, I contend that having the right to vote is a privilege"

    ?!?!!

    we are so fucked.....

    Added.I`ll contend that the founding Fathers didn`t set up America,for the "privileged".I think it was the exact opposite.

    < Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/2/2008 2:00:20 PM >

    (in reply to burningdesires47)
    Profile   Post #: 67
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 3:52:05 PM   
    FullCircle


    Posts: 5713
    Joined: 11/24/2005
    Status: offline     		I'll just get a fake ID. My friend is really good at them; he uses this special process known as Twentieth Century Fox DVD hologram relocation (TCFDVDHR). I don’t want to go into detail as he has a patent pending. Lets just say I’m voting Obama but my devious nature means I could be trying to influence your vote i.e. I may really be wanting you to vote Republican. You’ll never know though because I could have just said what I did about wanting you to vote Republican because I really want you to vote for Obama. See I didn’t mention Hillary because she isn’t an option, or is she?

    < Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/2/2008 3:53:41 PM >

    _____________________________

    ∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

    (in reply to Owner59)
    Profile   Post #: 68
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 7:12:22 PM   
    Archer


    Posts: 3207
    Joined: 3/11/2005
    Status: offline     		Actually there is no specific individual right to vote in a federal election codified in the US Constitution. Only requirements that the States should they recognize a right to vote have to do so within specific guidelines. (Other than those residents of Washington DC itself. 23rd ammendment)

    If you want to disagree then by all means cite the passage that codifies the right to vote in a federal election.

    We already know that the electoral college (and the Supream Court) have specificly debunked the idea that we have a federal right to vote for President.
    Legally the right to vote in the US is provided at the state level.




    (in reply to FullCircle)
    Profile   Post #: 69
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 7:18:01 PM   
    OrionTheWolf


    Posts: 7803
    Joined: 10/11/2006
    Status: offline     		Owner I am going to chock it up to the fact that we have a miscommunication error. Your right about all of it, you are so far right, you are left. Left is not right, but right is always right.

    People who exercise rights granted by the constitution should prove or be allowed due process, to be able to exert any of those rights as a citizen. I am so much a believer in being a citizen, that I feel we can at least prove, even if it is never earned.

    Also, I like the Lions for Lamb idea: After Graduation you must complete either 2 years Military Service, 2 Years Peace Corp, or 2 years assisting in inner city programs, if you wish to be a ctizen. This forces a person to actually become a part of the world around them, and take ownership of it. It engages them in the community, and invest of time and effort. Someone called me a Nazi once because of that idea, but Heinlen made big bucks using it.

    Anyway, have a good evening Owner.

    _____________________________

    When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

    (in reply to Owner59)
    Profile   Post #: 70
    RE: Supreme Court says states CAN require ID to vote - 5/2/2008 7:29:24 PM   
    OrionTheWolf


    Posts: 7803
    Joined: 10/11/2006
    Status: offline     		Land owners I believe at the time, but the common man was allowed voting rights limited to the state they were in. These rights in the beginning were bought, sold, swindled and stolen. How can something so inalienable be taken away so easily just by a government saying it, a thug doing it, or a person accepting it, and enforcing it with deadly force if necessary (Power of the state). If it is divinely given, then how is man so feeble as to allow it to be taken from him?



    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Owner59

    "yes, I contend that having the right to vote is a privilege"

    ?!?!!

    we are so fucked.....

    Added.I`ll contend that the founding Fathers didn`t set up America,for the "privileged".I think it was the exact opposite.


    _____________________________

    When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

    (in reply to Owner59)
    Profile   Post #: 71
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