RE: Dying and Coming back~~

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Dying and Coming back~~

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Dying and Coming back~~

Page: << < prev 1 2 3 [4]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 12:46:04 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
That god is really Micky Mouse?

Never heard about the Sminthian, did you, MC?

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Profile

Post #: 61

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 3:23:35 AM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Dying and Coming back~~

Do you think this could work for Domiguy?

It's happened here on the boards numerous times.

Missy

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to subtee)

Profile

Post #: 62

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 8:28:44 AM

philosophy

Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EXODUS1

What a shame, Your fate has already been sealed!

...is that a threat?

(in reply to EXODUS1)

Profile

Post #: 63

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 10:23:27 AM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

I think it's one of those sterile, bubble wrapped threats philo. You know where the chosen can menace the damned without accepting responsibility for their own anger and overindulged self-importance.

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to philosophy)

Profile

Post #: 64

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 10:47:10 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EXODUS1

quote:

That god is really Micky Mouse? MeatCleaver

What a shame, Your fate has already been sealed!

No, MC's fate has not been sealed. The God of the Dead is quite lenient. Shall people be condemned because the Creator has not equiped them with spiritual awareness? Because they are sceptics? No. Some (parts of) minds may be condemned to oblivion, but not because they have no spiritual awareness. So sayeth I. (Besides, MC appears to worship the Sminthian.)

(in reply to EXODUS1)

Profile

Post #: 65

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 5:58:06 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
No one can prove or disprove the spirituality of any event.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Depends on the event, does it not? There is such a thing as reproducibility. When two or more people have similar experiences they may be compared and hypotheses as to their significance may be formulated.

When two or more people have a similar experience, they can compare notes, they can even form their own hypotheses, but as such, they will remain hypotheses since they cannot be proven. Case studies, testimony, and personal experience proves nothing. Like I said - if you want to believe, then do so. Just don't tell me you can prove it until you run it with some control groups, reproduce it, let others test it, and have your findings published in a peer-reviewed journal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
One can prove and disprove the existence or absence of a purely scientific one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
That also depends on the event. I am not much of a mathematician, but I have been told that they have whole hosts of theorems that may never be proven.

I'm not a mathemetician either so I don't know if that is true or not. In any case, it's a whole different argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
All I am saying is that faith requires only faith while science requires proof.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
What do you mean by faith? I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?

That seems a little beneath you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Generally people are too dumb to accept any revelation unless they can stick their fingers in the wounds; isn't that precisely what the - presumably very myopic - Thomas did when he was confronted with the resurrected Jesus? So, yes, spiritually aware people and - another class entirely - religious people very much insist on proof.

First, you are talking about a person who may be entirely fictional. Second, I never said that people of faith cannot be scientists - some are. They simply let science and faith be separate entities, as they are intended to be. You don't have to let science interfere with your faith, if you want to have faith and can reconcile your faith as a solely belief-based entity. It doesn't matter that science can't prove the existence of god, of heaven, of hell, or of anything else anyone else chooses to believe. That's why faith and science are two different words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
Faith, for me, is the more difficult of the two, knowing what I know about science.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Again, I have no idea what you mean by the concept faith. Do you?

Yeah, I have a pretty good idea. And Rule, I gotta tell ya, the game of semantics bores the shit out of me so I'm not going to play it with you.

(in reply to Rule)

Profile

Post #: 66

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 6:03:20 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
Cloning is an understanding of science

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
What do you mean by that?

What do you mean what do I mean?

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
I do welcome you to opine.

What do you mean by that? Are you saying "tell me about it"? If you have any knowledge about science, you ought to be able to provide half a dozen generic examples yourself, ranging from biology to astronomy and mathematics.

Actually, I was impressed that you weren't taking the low road in a debate and I was enjoying talking with you. It seems that now, however, you are highly offended and are going to stomp your foot at me any time I say anything. So never mind.

(in reply to Rule)

Profile

Post #: 67

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 7:03:29 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

Meanwhile here's a little light reading.. apologies if someone has already gone over this....

http://leda.lycaeum.org/Documents/The_Ketamine_Model_of_the_Near_Death_Experience.9264.shtml

http://www.neurotransmitter.net/neardeath.html

(in reply to batshalom)

Profile

Post #: 68

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 9:55:30 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
When two or more people have a similar experience, they can compare notes, they can even form their own hypotheses, but as such, they will remain hypotheses since they cannot be proven. Case studies, testimony, and personal experience proves nothing.

Quite, but they do provide data.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
don't tell me you can prove it until you run it with some control groups, reproduce it, let others test it, and have your findings published in a peer-reviewed journal.

Wherever did I say one can prove spirituality? I have said that it has to be experienced.
Also I am not that impressed by what is published in peer reviewed journals. Especially as far as regards any discussion section of an article. There are stories out there about the non-sense that is published in such journals; as well as stories about peers that pirate the science they review and slow down the publication of the original article and have their own article published first or simultaneously.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
What do you mean by faith? I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?

That seems a little beneath you.
Yeah, I have a pretty good idea. And Rule, I gotta tell ya, the game of semantics bores the shit out of me so I'm not going to play it with you.

Well, semantics is what science is all about, for if one does not know precisely what is meant by a concept one cannot possibly formulate any hypothesis about said concept and the only result of that is improper reasoning and a flawed discussion.
In the case of the ill-defined concept faith even the simple "English dictionary" edited by R.F. Patterson lists seven possible alternative meanings for that concept and I honestly have no idea which one of them applies to your use of the word. Which is why I asked for elucidation.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/2/2008 9:57:03 PM >

(in reply to batshalom)

Profile

Post #: 69

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/2/2008 10:20:01 PM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
What do you mean what do I mean?

I mean that I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "Cloning is an understanding of science". I am not a native speaker and what you said here makes no sense to me. Hence I was asking for elucidation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
I was impressed that you weren't taking the low road in a debate

Low road is an idiom that I am not familiar with. I googled it, but came up only with some fantasy book about the fae. So I have no idea what you refer to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
and I was enjoying talking with you.

You are welcome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom
It seems that now, however, you are highly offended and are going to stomp your foot at me any time I say anything. So never mind.

I merely asked for some elucidation about remarks you made that I did not comprehend. I am not offended in the least. I will stomp my foot at anything anybody says whenever, so there is no reason for anyone to feel that their remarks got any special treatment.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/2/2008 11:03:08 PM >

(in reply to batshalom)

Profile

Post #: 70

RE: Dying and Coming back~~ - 5/3/2008 5:15:26 AM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

All right. I'm too lazy to c&p so I'll just take it from here.

Cloning requires an understanding of science ... but I don't remember why we're talking about it, and we have this laziness factor to deal with (because I'm too lazy this morning, and haven't had any coffee) to go back & reread. My point is that most life forms, like sheep, don't spontaneously clone - we get clones from understanding and application of science. (Cloning isn't something I feel overly good about although I'm hard-pressed to explain why. Science, like any knowledge, can be used for negative purposes. Just because we know something can be done doesn't mean it should be.)

Peer reviewed journals are like anything else: the few can ruin it for the many. The thing about peer reviewed journals is that, once published, the science in it becomes public (important) and the reader can feel pretty darned certain that the science in it has been examined thoroughly. This is not the case for all journals, mind you, only those that have no stake in a positive or negative finding. There are journals all over the 'net that are full of junk science because the "evidence" confirming the company's bias (the evidence that helps them hawk their wares) makes money for them. Get a gander at touch-field therapy for such an example.

By "faith" I mean belief in some higher power, any higher power, something that is a common folk-belief but cannot be proven to exist by conventional scientific means. It means believing that our fate ... or destiny ... or what have you ... is not in our own hands. I hope this helps, and I don't mean that in a derisive way.

Please allow me to restate that I am not saying such beliefs are wrong - it's entirely up to each individual to decide what works best for him or her.

Personal experiences can provide fruitful ideas for research, unless everyone involved is willing to take and idea "on faith" which, in this case, means "without falsifiable evidence."

Now. I have to go de-lazify myself somehow. Maybe a nice aerobic nap will do the trick.

(in reply to Rule)

Profile

Post #: 71