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RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/1/2008 11:12:17 AM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

Just because her elevator does not go all the way to the penthouse, he is not obligated to accept her as is and care for her and be responsible for her. He did not make her be a nutcase. Especially if she lives in a delusional state, not accepting responsibility for her actions. I am sure that she is sane enough to know the difference between a lie and the truth. I would bet 10 dick hairs that she manipulated the doctors into thinking she was more insane than she really is.

You got all of this information about her from that one brief post made by the person's former master?

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(in reply to OldBastardly1)

Post #: 41

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/1/2008 7:04:29 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Punish her for what??? having a mental breakdown.

Sometimes these forums are pretty interesting. It's nice to see the other side of the coin. Nice post.
...I'd still opt for giving her the boot from what little I saw of it in the OP though.

I actually agree with both of these posts. Weird, huh?

Punishment for someone with mental health issues just isn't a good idea.

Next, being involved in a D/s relationship with someone that has a problem grasping reality, not a good idea.

The best thing for all involved is to end it.

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Post #: 42

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/1/2008 7:13:26 PM

OldBastardly1

Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wandersalone

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

Just because her elevator does not go all the way to the penthouse, he is not obligated to accept her as is and care for her and be responsible for her. He did not make her be a nutcase. Especially if she lives in a delusional state, not accepting responsibility for her actions. I am sure that she is sane enough to know the difference between a lie and the truth. I would bet 10 dick hairs that she manipulated the doctors into thinking she was more insane than she really is.

You got all of this information about her from that one brief post made by the person's former master?

Yes. Quite amazing, isn't it?

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(in reply to wandersalone)

Post #: 43

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/1/2008 9:10:20 PM

Skully7000

Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
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I pretty much agree with the first page of responses... She broke the trust of the whole family in a very big way. Besides the mental health issues which must be adressed first and foremost....

scene wise: this is how I would consider handling it.
if you do decide to keep her (which is what it seems) you and the rest of the family (and especially her) must know that she is/will NOT be starting from scratch. she is starting from Negative numbers. she has earned herself an inherant lack of trust. and for the beginning. I would start off keeping her in a state of Non-trust.
if you go to leave the room, make her follow you. as you don't trust her alone in the room. if she needs to go to the bathroom check to make sure she didn't take anything while in the bathroom. make her empty out her pockets.
etc etc. for whatever length of time you see fit make her Learn what it means to TRULY not be trusted.

then from their you can begin to give her more responsibilities. thus allowing her to earn the families trust back little by little. day by day.

again this is admittedly theory and I have no experience with this. nor make no claims as to how this may help or hurt her actual mental health.

good luck and cheers
Skully

(in reply to MasterButtercup)

Post #: 44

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/2/2008 12:21:29 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I can't say I'd ever take the person back in the same capacity. There really isn't enough information here about what transpired during that year and a half the OP thought she was a "good" slave that overcomes what happened in the end. Personally, I'd be evaluating that. I'd have to be looking back at My perceptions of the 'back then' when the additional information of the way the lies unraveled and reassess My perspective of how things *really* were. If you base good memories on less than the truth, I don't think you're being very honest with yourself either.

I don't see this as an area where punishment should be an option, but that is based on My opinion that perhaps D/s shouldn't be the primary focus just now. What you have is a person with a mental issue, and if that got bad enough to end someone up in the hospital, the greatest concern should be that there isn't a repeat of whatever got things to that point. I would think that person's health would be the greatest priority. That doesn't necessarily mean you let her back into your house in the same position. It means you give it some time and let her see if she can have some stability.

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(in reply to Skully7000)

Post #: 45

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/2/2008 9:45:54 AM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
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People aren't so black/white, Leatherist. People lie for a variety of reasons, one of them being out of fear. We can't possibly know the full extent of what has transpired and we have but one person's perspective on this - yet people, including you, are jumping in with rash judgements.

"The hand of doom has fallen, your fate is sealed. You have been released and from this moment on shall not pass Go." Good grief!

Does it not occur to you to want to find out WHY someone has lied? There's a huge difference between someone who has deliberately lied out of a blatant disrespect for you, than someone who has mental health issues and has been afraid of being forthright about their problems? A problem involves TWO persons, not just one. Makes you wonder WHY person would not feel secure in being honest in the first place, don'tcha think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
I have a pretty stright forward way of looking at things like this. Lying is disrespectful. It means that the person doing it thinks I am stupid, and cannot find out.

But I always find out, and I always call people on it. And they suffer for doing it-I see to that. I usually just write them off.

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(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 46

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/2/2008 10:33:20 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterButtercup
But what to do that only SHE will feel the pain, not the rest of my home. And no…I will never pick up a tool of pleasure such as a flogger or cane for the purpose of punishment. Please feel free to share your ideas; MB

Simply say "...no"

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Post #: 47

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/2/2008 2:15:12 PM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
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I'm not going to deal with people in my life who are inherently unstable. I don't really care about why that is-just that it is.

Yes, I am a hard nose-but life is simply too short to make other people's issues mine.

It's a limit, and I have every right to feel so.

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Post #: 48

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 3:48:51 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

i'm sorry but i'm trying to figure out what message this would send to the rest of the household, that lying and deception is okay as long as there's some sort of punishment?

i agree entirely that if you accept the mental issues as the cause of the deception then you can't punish someone for being mentally ill.

i don't know the dynamic of your household but a poly house is not just your relationship with this slave, it is also the relationship of the others. You say she lied to US. How will bringing her back effect the harmony of the household. While your other slaves may not have any say in the matter, their relationship with the slave in question has been impacted as well.

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Post #: 49

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 4:48:23 AM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Leatherist, that isn't what I am questioning at all, of course people run their lives as they see fit and decide what is/isn't acceptible behaviour from others. What intrigues me though is why, with such scant details and from one person's perspective only, are judgements formulated especially when people are so tangible? What is also of interest is that people comment about the seeming behaviours of the 'unstable' person and yet, the relationship has two persons in it... one who is the seemingly unstable one and being lambasted, the other enabling it by posting for suggestions on punishment, doesn't that strike you as bloody odd to say the least? Clearly there are issues all round and if the 'get rid' sentiment is applied to one, surely the 'enabler' of such instability needs addressing also?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
I'm not going to deal with people in my life who are inherently unstable. I don't really care about why that is-just that it is.

Yes, I am a hard nose-but life is simply too short to make other people's issues mine.

It's a limit, and I have every right to feel so.

_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 50

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 5:28:58 AM

OldBastardly1

Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

So the OP should just put out an ad for "mentally ill accepted here...liars welcome too"? If you are out to save the world, so to speak, maybe you should take her in. How many mentally ill, liars are in your service now? Surely you would not discriminate against this type of behavior and would have no issue.....right?

The OP asked for input. OP gave some details which, skewed or not, are how He sees reality. Based on what the OP sees as a reality, we give input as to what we think is would be the healtiest option for OP and his family. The crazy/liar girl did not come here and ask for advice.

In all your humanitarian wisdom...what would YOU do? Perhaps you could give some great advice that we could all learn from.

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(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 51

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 7:42:02 AM

exploreme760

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline

I'm new to bdsm but I have a lot of experience in screwed up relationships and work in the mental health field. It sounds to me that you are minimizing the situation when you refer to it as "problematic". This is more than a problem that automatically occurs in a repeated fashion. Unless that is how your house is run. I can only guess from what you say.

Her skill of manipulation has been developed over her lifetime and is not going to be resolved with a little therapy and medication. She didn't get that way overnight, it is not going to get better overnight.

Not to mention a couple little things called her husband and the previous Master that she ran away from. To me, it seems she didn't trust you or the family to let you know she had obligations to resolve before she started.

I would procede very slowly if at all.

(in reply to MasterButtercup)

Post #: 52

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 7:50:02 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skully7000

I pretty much agree with the first page of responses... She broke the trust of the whole family in a very big way. Besides the mental health issues which must be adressed first and foremost....

scene wise: this is how I would consider handling it.
if you do decide to keep her (which is what it seems) you and the rest of the family (and especially her) must know that she is/will NOT be starting from scratch. she is starting from Negative numbers. she has earned herself an inherant lack of trust. and for the beginning. I would start off keeping her in a state of Non-trust.
if you go to leave the room, make her follow you. as you don't trust her alone in the room. if she needs to go to the bathroom check to make sure she didn't take anything while in the bathroom. make her empty out her pockets.
etc etc. for whatever length of time you see fit make her Learn what it means to TRULY not be trusted.

then from their you can begin to give her more responsibilities. thus allowing her to earn the families trust back little by little. day by day.

again this is admittedly theory and I have no experience with this. nor make no claims as to how this may help or hurt her actual mental health.

good luck and cheers
Skully

Skully, she's just out of a locked psych ward. Hasn't it occurred to you that this kind of treatment will cause her to need to go back? I suppose if she were diabetic you would punish her by withholding her insulin?

Health and safety come first. Deliberately doing major harm to someone this fragile shows a dom to be totally untrustworthy.

If he can't deal with her problems, then don't get involved again. But don't try to damage her to the point she may never recover.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Skully7000)

Post #: 53

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 8:04:39 AM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

You are clearly missing a huge cue in this, OB, the cue is that with mental health issues symptoms do not suddenly appear nor miraculously disappear under their own volition. I know few guys have such a thing as Common Sense but really.

This person embarked on a relationship with her and one can deduce that due time has been spent in each other's company for him to 'uncover' all those lies... yet, now that she has gone through whatever therapies and given a 'clean bill of health' what is the OP's first thoughts about the situation... It is to post on a message board asking people what steps he should take to punish her.

Nowhere in my posts have I suggested that a person should welcome such issues with open arms or put up with deceitful behaviour. What I have suggested is that in a relationship where one is behaving thusly, there is also the enabler... the enabler in this instance is the OP so rather than focus on implementing punishment methods for said woman, I am sure you will agree that they BOTH need to focus on their own issues and SEPARATELY b/c they sure are bountiful, and improve ways in which to recognise and make healthier choices in the future, and, if he is incapable of making healthy choices, which are strongly indicated given the OP, he is not capable of managing someone else's life.

Pearls enough for you?

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A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to OldBastardly1)

Post #: 54

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 2:38:31 PM

lalbobbilynn

Posts: 483
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline

i was given the impression from the OP's statement that although his slave has a mental illness, she made the choice to lie to Him and his family so she could get what she wanted.
Being a chronic liar to better her selfish needs is not a judgment flaw (a bad choice), is a character flaw Your slave seems to be repeating.
When the basic foundation (trust) of any relationship is not shared by all parities involved, isn't really a relationship.
Also, who is to say she won't lie again to get what she wants.
b.~

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 55

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 3:48:54 PM

Aereci

Posts: 28
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline

You're right- any given individual could have a number of psychological problems. Does that give everyone a free card to lie, cheat, or steal? I don't think so.

Fix the holes in your theory.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 56

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/3/2008 11:20:46 PM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Lalbobbilynn, I got that impression too, it wasn't missed. However, with that in mind, do you think judgement is impaired to reintroduce such a disruptive influence to a household? If we separate issues, surely the outcome is the same regardless... I do not feel people should be 'disposable', however, we are responsible for our actions and if we invite such disruption to continue in our personal lives who really is ultimately responsible? Whether or not there is deliberate deception going on that is incidental, the OP is still requesting advice on what punishment/s should occur for such behaviour instead of focusing on how to ensure ways in which to maintain the household equilibrium.

The issue isn't just one person's as it affects everyone else in the household. Sometimes, when we are emotionally involved, we lose our perspective and I think that is what has occured here with the OP. I would be focusing those energies on the relationship and re-establishing boundaries. Lies do not come out of nowhere, there tends to be a foundation for them and two or more persons involved... the one that lies and the others lied to. Implementing punishments isn't going to fix such a situation.

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 5/3/2008 11:32:00 PM >

_____________________________

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A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to lalbobbilynn)

Post #: 57

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/4/2008 10:53:11 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aereci

You're right- any given individual could have a number of psychological problems. Does that give everyone a free card to lie, cheat, or steal? I don't think so.

Fix the holes in your theory.

I didn't say she got a free pass. We don't have enough information to know. Just because you may or may not have major depression and are competent doesn't mean that's what she has or that she is competent.

Cali

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Post #: 58

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/4/2008 11:22:37 AM

lalbobbilynn

Posts: 483
Joined: 6/11/2006
Status: offline

Hey MissMorrigan, hows You?!!?
i read the OP's post, and to be truthful my first thought from how he stated his post was: isn't it funny (not really) how the mind decides when to say ENOUGH, and scream out a safeword (in a matter of speaking)? i could very well be off point in how i precieved the post, nevertheless, my view was that the slave in question made a choice to lie to her Master, and his household from the jump off. As a result of those lies (again i am going by the original post) she had a breakdown.
i could not agree with You more in respects to how one person affects the household as a whole, and how being emotionally connected can squew the lines. That aside, IMHO, is not about disposing of one, but rather having values that are not negotable, hence the lying.
i am not capable of giving insight as to how he should punish his slave b/c it is a point i am unable to comprehend. i believe strongly in free will.
Aside from being her friend even after she is back on good mental standing, i do not see why he would desire to continue a relationship with her. Is not just him to consider here, he has a household to take into account as well.
b.~

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

Lalbobbilynn, I got that impression too, it wasn't missed. However, with that in mind, do you think judgement is impaired to reintroduce such a disruptive influence to a household? If we separate issues, surely the outcome is the same regardless... I do not feel people should be 'disposable', however, we are responsible for our actions and if we invite such disruption to continue in our personal lives who really is ultimately responsible? Whether or not there is deliberate deception going on that is incidental, the OP is still requesting advice on what punishment/s should occur for such behaviour instead of focusing on how to ensure ways in which to maintain the household equilibrium.

The issue isn't just one person's as it affects everyone else in the household. Sometimes, when we are emotionally involved, we lose our perspective and I think that is what has occured here with the OP. I would be focusing those energies on the relationship and re-establishing boundaries. Lies do not come out of nowhere, there tends to be a foundation for them and two or more persons involved... the one that lies and the others lied to. Implementing punishments isn't going to fix such a situation.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 59

RE: What should the punishment be? - 5/4/2008 3:11:51 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

With all due respect, Master Buttercup, I cannot figure out how she could be a slave living at your residence and you being unaware that she had both a husband, albeit separated, and another Master.

I would not let her back in. And I get the feeling she will not be alone for very long.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 60

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