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RE: Powerless - 4/30/2008 8:27:00 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

That's just it Greedy...i can...but i don't know if i should.... i want (or need) his actions to be judged for what they were and don't want them to discount his actions simply because i'm stupid enough to allow myself to get raped..Ya know what i mean?
Kali



As I understand you...the guy was intimidating. His intimidation of you triggered you.
You are afraid if you reveal that you were raped to your supervisor then his actions will be not be taken as seriously because after all you are damaged/traumatized etc.

You are right. That could happen.
AND it might not happen.

Meanwhile while you sort that out...give the folks at RAINN a call... because they might be able to help you now.

He was intimidating.
It is true you might be hyper-sensitive.

But most people will not think you were stupid enough to be raped.
the statistical numbers are pretty clear: 1 in 6 women will be a victim of sexual assault.

If you are distressed tonight then do something tonight; talk to someone tonight... there are times when inside our own head is not the best place to be alone.

I am so sorry this happened to you but please try to not engage in secondary wounding by seeing this as your fault.
It isn't.

(((hugs)))

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Powerless - 4/30/2008 8:31:05 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		I'm with slaveboy here.  I am AN ASS when I think I'm right, which is most of the time... I do my level best to dilute it with humor and perspective, but push comes to shove I won't take no for an answer until security's been called in. 

For the same reasons--If I don't stand up for myself, then sometimes somebody else will do it for me... and then I feel bad.  And if they don't, I'm screwed. 

But the fact is, I'm as dangerous as a dandelion.  And I have medicinal properties, I make decent tea... wait, sidetrack.  What I mean is, I'll push and I'll linger when I can't think of something to say, and I'll talk fast and hard when I can, and I won't alter my course until I'm convince of the logic of it; pulling rank has little effect on me, which means it's good I'm self-employed in a field where clients have little to no comprehension of what it is I actually do.  Dammit, sidetracking again... point is, maybe... just maybe... you're being too hard on the guy.  And too hard on yourself, but mostly too hard on the guy.

D

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Powerless - 4/30/2008 8:50:15 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		i was trying to keep what he was (or was not) doing out of this, but since You asked i'll give You some examples: he's always wanting to 'touch' people...i don't mean sexually or anything, but he has no idea of other people's personal space....  he also frequently is telling people what psychiatric diagnosis they have (which is not only inaccurate but completly inappropriate) as well as what medication they should be on.  He puts the wrong client numbers on client's paperwork, he frequently misfiles stuff, he flat out refuses to do things the way our state auditors mandate we do them, insisting that it is impossible to do it that way...He can not or will not follow simple directions and does not take redirection or correction well...In fact he has told me numerous times recently, "if you tell me i need to do something different, i'll get mad about it and pout for a while.... but eventually i'll do it."....
And here's the thing.....Even in the meeting with the HR person, my supervisor, and myself, he could not see how inappropriate his interaction with me is.... When they explained the write up and referral to EAP due to his intimidation of me, he spun around really quickly and  stared at me and almost yelled, "I don't intimadate you do I?"  To which I was gone, and the HR person said, "See...this is an example of something that's inappropriate."
Looking back over things, I wonder if part of it isn't the fact that I am a woman.  He spent 30 years in various sects of the military....
Thanks all for your honesty, support, and direction,
Kali


_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to DMFParadox)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Powerless - 4/30/2008 9:34:11 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Ah, he was a military man.  That explains a lot.  He probably doesn't realize he is being intimidating.  My father was a military man, and he was very abrasive.  He was extremely intimidating, and you never knew what he was thinking.  He did things his own way.  I don't think a lot of people understood him. 

I don't know what to say about the touching thing.  Some people are just like that.  I don't like people coming up and putting their hand on my shoulder or patting me on the back.  I had a female supervisor that did that all the time.  It irritated the shit out of me, but I generally let it go.  It sounds like his little psychiatric diagnosis, and his comments about pouting are bad attempts at humor.  Some folks just aren't good with people.  They try to be, but they just aren't.  It sounds like he is a little passive-aggressive.  Unfortunately most passive aggressives don't even realize they are like that.  They don't see the world the way you do.  I doubt that he understands that turning to you and asking about being intimidating is inappropriate. 

Now as for his failure to follow directions and his refusal to do things properly, that goes back to his passive aggressive behavior.  I often don't like certain ways that things are done at offices.  But I choose a different route to express my displeasure.  I will make up a proposal and ask to speak to management.  I try to make a case that my way would be more productive.  I don't always get what I want, but I do think that impresses the boss.  It has at most places I have worked.  It sounds like this guy doesn't understand how to do that.  He wants to make changes; but in typical passive-aggressive form, he tries to frustrate people until they give in.  Passive aggressives often deliberately fail at things and sabotage their own work, because subconciously want to change things but are unable to assert themselves.  I bet he acts like he doesn't hear people when they tell him to do something, doesn't he? 

All that being said, I don't fault you for writing the guy up.  But I wouldn't be intimidated if I were you.  I have met a lot of guys like that.  They are harmless generally.  I guarantee you that he doesn't understand what he is doing wrong.  People like him just don't do well with authority.  They either need regimented types of work (like the military) or they need a job with a lot of autonomy (like sales).  He may just need to be persuaded to do something else.  It sounds like he is in the wrong type of environment. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 4/30/2008 9:44:24 PM >

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Powerless - 4/30/2008 10:20:05 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Sorry for being the asshole, but from what you've said, It doesn't sound like his intention was to intimidate you.

I've worked in more than a few places, and raised tempers over disputes happen. They just do. Unless he did something other than raise his voice, and keep talking for 90 seconds, I'd say this is your problem.

Maybe the guy is a bad worker, I don't know, but from what you said, It does sound like you are being over sensitive to the event.

Unless something was left out.

Every single place I've worked has had an event like you described. Worker gets disciplined, worker doesn't agree, worker has a verbal battle with the perceived assailant

Anyway, I'd guess unless you just hire all women, and I've been yelled at by female workers to, you're going to have another situation like this again, because it happens, occasionally.

Just my two cents based on partial information.

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Powerless - 4/30/2008 10:57:35 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Well, going by what Kali stated in her OP, it seems the guy is exhibiting a pattern of insubordination. Failing to do the work as directed, lingering in Kali's office after being directed to leave, and so on, all demonstrate that.

I'd avoid going into anything about your trauma if at all possible, and view his behavior strictly as a performance issue. If he was in the military, he knows how to follow an order (assuming his resume is truthful; not a wise assumption these days)(I read that over 9 million people claim to have been in Nam, when the number was actually around 1 million).

I have PTSD from early childhood trauma. If you ever feel like you need a shoulder, ...

Peace, Scott

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 4/30/2008 11:06:03 PM >

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 1:53:11 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Be firm and determined in your purpose.

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 2:04:44 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
i was trying to keep what he was (or was not) doing out of this, but since You asked i'll give You some examples: he's always wanting to 'touch' people...i don't mean sexually or anything, but he has no idea of other people's personal space....  he also frequently is telling people what psychiatric diagnosis they have (which is not only inaccurate but completly inappropriate) as well as what medication they should be on.  He puts the wrong client numbers on client's paperwork, he frequently misfiles stuff, he flat out refuses to do things the way our state auditors mandate we do them, insisting that it is impossible to do it that way...He can not or will not follow simple directions and does not take redirection or correction well...In fact he has told me numerous times recently, "if you tell me i need to do something different, i'll get mad about it and pout for a while.... but eventually i'll do it."....
And here's the thing.....Even in the meeting with the HR person, my supervisor, and myself, he could not see how inappropriate his interaction with me is.... When they explained the write up and referral to EAP due to his intimidation of me, he spun around really quickly and  stared at me and almost yelled, "I don't intimadate you do I?"  To which I was gone, and the HR person said, "See...this is an example of something that's inappropriate."

Is it a social oriented business?
It seems to me that he is insensitive, incompetent and not qualified. He is completely unaware that his actions are such nor that they are intimidating.
He has repeatedly given you his manual, though, and that is a positive thing: "if you tell me i need to do something different, i'll get mad about it and pout for a while.... but eventually i'll do it". So the thing to do is to be patient with him yet to persist. Eventually, as he said, he will comply.

< Message edited by Rule -- 5/1/2008 2:05:39 AM >

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 7:50:30 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		kali, first off let me say that I was heartened by a couple of things:  how well you handled yourself during your interaction with this man, given the inner turmoil he was stirring up within you AND how professionally you handled the situation, as proven by your supervisor's own feelings about the situation, despite your misgivings about whether or not you were reacting to him on a professional level or personal level.

Which brings us to the second-guessing:  Did I react this way because I am a woman?  Did I react this way because I just do not like this guy and his way of doing things?  Did I react professionally or did I react personally?  Did I react this way because his actions were truly wrong or because his actions were too similar to those of the man that raped me?
All good questions and all questions that need answers.  You COULD get defensive and answer the first few questions in this manner...I did NOT let my personal issues, no matter how traumatic, color the situation.  He WAS being an asshole and I handled the situation the same as I would with any asshole.  But your own words belie that...and let's face it;  every one of those questions could have a qualifier:  "Did I react this way because I am a woman?"  sotto voce:  Yeah, a woman who has been RAPED.  "Did I react this way because I just do not like this guy and his way of doing things?"  sotto voce:  No...I reacted this way because he acts just LIKE the asshole who raped me and that can't be good for business.
The hard truth of the matter is that the rape has changed you:  note that I did not say harm because while his actions have changed you and they damaged you, only you have the power to let those changes become irrevocably harmful or to become something else...wisdom, strength, wariness (of a good kind), a power that you have not had before.  But to get to that place, you have to have professional guidance...counselors trained to help you get there, ones who will hold your hand while lifting you up and not pushing you down.

And now, on to the part that may be controversial but I really feel is part of the equation here.  kali, you have had a rather complex situation involving your significant other.  You have been left hurt, befuddled and disappointed by many of his actions and uplifted by other of his actions.  You have noted that it has been difficult at times to speak to him about these things so you have had them to deal with on your own in many instances.  These complex feelings....no matter how subtle their shading may be...when added to the deeper shadings of the turmoil brought on by the rape, are also helping to color your reactions...not just on a professional level  but in all areas of your life.  These need to be dealt with in counseling also and they can be dealt with during the rape counseling as they are significantly tied to it.

I wish you luck...you know that. 

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 7:50:33 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		1.  a cam is your friend.   have one or a dummy cam
2.  verbalize the commands.  methodically and firmly.  
3.  always know what you and others are paid to do. when in doubt- refer to that.
4 verbalize 3

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 10:17:58 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
Yes, actually last Thursday night when it happened i couldn't figure out if i had a right to feel the way i did or not..
 
... simply because i'm stupid enough to allow myself to get raped


Oh, don't make me come there and slap you, sister.  First, you have a RIGHT to whatever feelings you have.  Whether or not your experiences colored those feelings out of proportion is a different story, but even then, you still have a RIGHT to them. 

Second, if I ever DO see you saying you're stupid enough to allow yourself to get raped, I WILL come there and slap you.  You may have made choices that in hindsight were not wise, and only you can decide that. But at the time, in the moment, you did the best you could. 

This isn't going to be over for you until you forgive YOURSELF for what happened.

If your supervisor questions you again on why you would be afraid of him (although hopefully that was evident in the last interaction), you can always say that his responses seem grossly out of proportion to reality, and he gives you that "never know what to expect" feeling.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 10:30:12 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Cali?  I love you! well said... (and if need be.. I'll go with ya and get all dom on her, too LOL)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 10:39:37 AM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline 		Kali,
I just went through this last week. You offered to help, I am responding with my offer to help you. Email me.

Hugs,

MoGa


_____________________________





(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 10:54:58 AM   
LilMissHaven


Posts: 734
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		Any woman who has been raped in the past will tell you the first step to overcoming the experiance and moving on with your life on a positive foot is to realize you did not choose to be raped, someone made that choice for you and its their responsibility to carry the guilt.

Second, is continuing on with your counseling in your new community.  I know its hard to build the level of trust you need to truly open up and be honest but you and your sanity are worth it.  I found peer therapy and scream therapy to be very helpful with my own healing.  I know it sounds totally uncool and embarrassing the first few sessions of scream therapy I just watched everyone like OMG what freaks but after a particularly grueling session I just let it go and screamed till my throat hurt and damn did I feel good afterwards.

Is there a chance you could make a suggestion to your supervisor?  Something along the lines of...So and so could be such an asset to our firm if he could just learn to communicate in an appropriate manner and stopped offending and upsetting his co-workers so I wondered if we could sponser a manditory communication seminar for all employees?

That way your supervisors know your trying, if he doesn't take anything away from the seminar its not you who failed now is it?

Yea, I'm a sneaky bitch so what

_____________________________

I must first learn to master myself, before I can truly be owned by one.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 11:17:48 AM   
CraZYWiLLiE


Posts: 161
Joined: 1/24/2008
From: HD NM
Status: offline 		Keep a 357 magnum in your purse, or pepperspray, stun gun.
If you ever feel that vulnerable, fight back, or you will be a victim yet again.

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 11:19:12 AM   
LilMissHaven


Posts: 734
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CraZYWiLLiE

Keep a 357 magnum in your purse, or pepperspray, stun gun.
If you ever feel that vulnerable, fight back, or you will be a victim yet again.


Ummm I'd go with maybe pepperspray and some self defense lessons but you don't want to accidently shoot the neighborly old lady next day cause you heard a noise while walking to your door.

_____________________________

I must first learn to master myself, before I can truly be owned by one.

(in reply to CraZYWiLLiE)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 11:27:43 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		FR

I read this last night and as far as I'm concerned you don't owe your supervisor and explanation of your past.  If the guy nakes you uncomfortable he needs to cease and desist, you are protected from feeling harrassed in the work place.

Years ago-- even before they got hypersensitive to harrassment I worked with a guy that was just creepy, he gave me bad vibes and he would try to engage in casual banter as other coworders did but it would give me chills.  I asked him to stop and he didn't.  I went to my supervisor and he told him to stop.  The guy pointed out that he wasn't doing anything others weren't doing (and he was right) but the supervisor maintained that it didn't matter, if I was uncomfortable that was reason enough to quit the activity.  And he never even touched me. 

Touching is a huge no-no non-sexual or not.



_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to LilMissHaven)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Powerless - 5/1/2008 12:19:52 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I would not confide this to your supervisor as it may be viewed that you have an issue keeping your personal life seperated or that it is interfering with your ability to perform your job...... or worse, it could be viewed that you are asking for special handling.

All that needs to be said is that this employee did not respect you or your position when he refused to leave your personal space and that you felt threatened and intimidated by his failure to comply with your request to leave.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to OmegaG)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Powerless - 5/2/2008 2:24:15 AM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		i just wanted to thank everyone sincerely and deeply for their responses....You have no idea how much You all have helped me.... Even those who emailed me personally. i also wanted to let You know that i took most of Your advice (or plan to).  Yesterday, i just couldn't cope at work anymore....i started having chest pains and i knew it was not my heart.. i came home and i couldn't stop crying....okay...sobbing..anyway, i called the local rape crisis center and went in and saw someone there. She honestly, wasn't very helpful, but i spoke to a wonderfully reassuring and kind women on the phone who i'm actually going to be continuing my counseling with.  The woman i saw yesterday mostly just listened to me ramble on and on for about 50 minutes... Then, i went back to work for about an hour and spent some time with two of my supportive co-workers. One of which is on the same level ( management wise) as me, who's livid about everything that's happened.
Then i decided to get off my ass and go to a freaking AA meeting. Yeah, apparently i had decided that after 12 years i was no longer an alcoholic... *insert insanity here*
All that's wonderful isn't it? However, here's where I'm at this morning: i'm okay with them bringing him back Monday, he has a right to come back to work just like anyone else would. i'm a firm believer in 'we teach people how to treat us', and i don't think it's my responsibility to ensure he likes this or understands it, it's simply my responsibility to let him know where my limits are. Which include: he may not enter my office unaccompanied, we will not meet or discuss anything alone on the 2nd floor, he will only get one time of being told anything if he continues to push....the conversation is done and i'm getting up and leaving the room, he will continue to be held accountable, i will treat him with grace and dignity.. And here are the other things: i truly believe that my internal response was a direct corelation to the rape itself. Having said that, however, it does not negate the way he treated me or acted towards me. i've decided i'm not going to share that with my supervisor at this time because i need his actions to stand on their own.  The last thing i want to do is be labeled as some 'hysterical victim'...UGH...
i think that's everything....i truly and deeply want to thank everyone for their advice, encouragement, truth, etc.
Kali


_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Powerless - 5/2/2008 2:51:31 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		WOW!!!! What a strong tough girl you are? Gimme some of that courage!!!!
I admire you sister.



_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to Kalista07)
Profile   Post #: 40
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