RE: The Ron Paul Evolution

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: The Ron Paul Evolution

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 5 [6]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 7:14:40 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

SCOTUS did a "we do not have jurisdiction" type of response in the "eminent domain" case. They threw it back at the state in question.

And what they ruled is that the people in each state brought the eminent domain problems upon themselves, via their elected officials, and that the best (not only, but best) remedy would be for the people of each state to get up off their collective lazy asses and pass local laws stopping the practice.

(OK, the Court didn't really say 'collective'... )

Yes, they really should get up off those lazy asses. In the situation we are addressing, the people in each individual state do not have the power to get up off their asses and so anything since it is a federal law. I dont; think it should be a federal law, so that is My objection.

The internet is doing its usual wonderful job of obscuring communication.

I don't think that there should be a federal OR a state law forcing a US citizen to bear children against her will.
Obviously, there are many people who see the competing interest of the unborn child as overarching. (Should there ever be a Constitutional amendment naming the unborn as citizens, then there would have to be much back and forth balancing the issue...but as of now, that isn't in play.)

I hold with the view that the state's rights argument isn't always persuasive by itself, when it comes to stripping a US citizen of their rights.

Second, I feel that all cases arising at law should be settled by the courts, with the federal courts having the final ability to override bad legislative or executive decisions from either state or federal bodies... Which means that I find these 'non-reviewable by the courts' codicils to be just as bad as bogus claims of state's rights, regardless of whose side they benefit.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)

Profile

Post #: 101

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 7:16:33 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Maybe I missed something in this thread...

In what way has Ron Paul evolved? He seems like the same tired blowhard to me. What's new?

The original OP asked:

Has Ron Paul laid the foundation for a new era of libertarianism in America?

He did not ask how Ron Paul has evolved.

In other words, are more people discussing the concept of liberty, and working towards pursuing it, due to Paul's influence?

You're misusing the word liberty and libertarian. Liberty is roughly equivalent to freedom. A Libertarian is a tax protestor and/or pot head who will go along with anything in pursuit of their goals. For instance a basic plank of virtually all Libertarian organizations is the complete elimination of most of government at all levels which would directly result in most people rapidly having no liberty at all.

Paul himself by advocating the elimination of the EPA and all interstate pollution regulation is opposing my and your liberty to be alive and healthy amongst many other examples.

Please either study those you think support what you think is right or be honest in what it is you support. Next you or somebody will be claiming the US Constitution Party isn't a bunch of theocrats out to do away with the US Constitution simply because of their name.

Gee Ken,

I looked in several places, but I couldn't find your definition of a Libertarian:

"A Libertarian is a tax protestor and/or pot head who will go along with anything in pursuit of their goals."

That's quite an opinionated statement. You wouldn't be trying to pass off your opinions as the truth now, would you?

If you're really interested in what I support, look here:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1835844/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#1836157

But do me a favor, before you start taking potshots at what I believe in or why in your opinion they wouldn't work, why don't you first share with us what you believe in.

< Message edited by subfever -- 5/4/2008 7:23:01 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 102

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 7:47:07 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Paul himself by advocating the elimination of the EPA and all interstate pollution regulation is opposing my and your liberty to be alive and healthy amongst many other examples.

Here's what Paul had to say:

"In a free-market system, nobody is permitted to pollute their neighbor's private property -- water, air, or land. It is very strict."

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 103

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 7:54:31 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

Here's what Paul had to say:
"In a free-market system, nobody is permitted to pollute their neighbor's private property -- water, air, or land. It is very strict."

quote:

If anything, my comment had the potential to put the OP (Has Ron Paul laid the foundation for a new era of libertarianism in America?) back on track. It's really about liberty, or the lack of it.

Libertarianism looks interesting on paper... so do other proposals... but in practice, the LP looks like more of the same... who is going to enforce Paul's 'nobody is permitted'?
Some people may feel that they aren't free unless they can do whatever pleases them, no matter who it harms. Who is going to shut down their methlab in the woods before its runoff hits my drinking water? The kinder gentler Libertarian administration?

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 5/4/2008 7:55:03 PM >

(in reply to subfever)

Profile

Post #: 104

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 8:30:00 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Here's what Paul had to say:
"In a free-market system, nobody is permitted to pollute their neighbor's private property -- water, air, or land. It is very strict."

quote:

If anything, my comment had the potential to put the OP (Has Ron Paul laid the foundation for a new era of libertarianism in America?) back on track. It's really about liberty, or the lack of it.

Libertarianism looks interesting on paper... so do other proposals... but in practice, the LP looks like more of the same... who is going to enforce Paul's 'nobody is permitted'?
Some people may feel that they aren't free unless they can do whatever pleases them, no matter who it harms. Who is going to shut down their methlab in the woods before its runoff hits my drinking water? The kinder gentler Libertarian administration?

Here's what Ron Paul had to say on something similar:

What if you're part of a community that's getting dumped on, but you don't have the time or the money to sue the offending polluter?

Imagine that everyone living in one suburb, rather than using regular trash service, were taking their household trash to the next town over and simply tossing it in the yards of those living in the nearby town. Is there any question that legal mechanisms are in place to remedy this action? In principle, your concerns are no different, except that, for a good number of years, legislatures and courts have failed to enforce the property rights of those being dumped on with respect to certain forms of pollution. This form of government failure has persisted since the industrial revolution when, in the name of so-called progress, certain forms of pollution were legally tolerated or ignored to benefit some popular regional employer or politically popular entity.

When all forms of physical trespass, be that smoke, particulate matter, etc., are legally recognized for what they are -- a physical trespass upon the property and rights of another -- concerns about difficulty in suing the offending party will be largely diminished. When any such cases are known to be slam-dunk wins for the person whose property is being polluted, those doing the polluting will no longer persist in doing so. Against a backdrop of property rights actually enforced, contingency and class-action cases are additional legal mechanisms that resolve this concern.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Profile

Post #: 105

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 8:42:35 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Paul's bullshit civil suits will protect teh environment claim? Does anybody really think civil action would work? How many lawyers does Dow employ?

(in reply to subfever)

Profile

Post #: 106

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 8:48:12 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

BTW I'm still waiting can someone answer the challenge?

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 107

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 8:54:28 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

As soon as you explain why you hate baby Jebus.

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 108

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 9:22:12 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Paul's bullshit civil suits will protect teh environment claim? Does anybody really think civil action would work? How many lawyers does Dow employ?

You're looking at things though the eyes of the current system. After the playing field has been leveled, and Dow no longer has the courts in its pockets via political advantage, why wouldn't it be a slam-dunk case?

But this is really all besides the point of the OP... which you seem invested in avoiding. You seem more interested in browbeating Paul, and those who support some or all of his ideas.

The OP wanted to know if Paul has laid a new foundation of Libertarianism in America.

We all already know you don't agree with Paul or his supporters. But do you believe, as a result of Paul's recent influence, that more people are discussing and pursuing Libertarian values?

< Message edited by subfever -- 5/4/2008 9:23:41 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 109

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 9:46:08 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Libertarian values? What are those? Based on Paul's actions they are denying people their rights based on religion and subverting the US Constitution.

Or maybe you meant the tax evaders and pot heads who dream of a country without taxes or drug laws? They never do explain what is supposed to prevent anarchy and tyranny under their system but maybe if we all wish real hard...

But I'll say again what I said to start this, I find it sad that so many are still being fooled by this liar.

(in reply to subfever)

Profile

Post #: 110

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/4/2008 10:43:07 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Actually, doesn't Ron Paul believe in Intelligent Design?

(in reply to Level)

Profile

Post #: 111

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/5/2008 5:09:06 AM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

Naaaah, they don't teach that stuff in those maddrassas mooozlum schools he went to.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Profile

Post #: 112

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/5/2008 6:38:14 AM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Libertarian values? What are those? Based on Paul's actions they are denying people their rights based on religion and subverting the US Constitution.

Or maybe you meant the tax evaders and pot heads who dream of a country without taxes or drug laws? They never do explain what is supposed to prevent anarchy and tyranny under their system but maybe if we all wish real hard...

But I'll say again what I said to start this, I find it sad that so many are still being fooled by this liar.

So... do you believe, as a result of Paul's recent influence, that more people are discussing and pursuing Libertarian values?

(in reply to DomKen)

Profile

Post #: 113

RE: The Ron Paul Evolution - 5/5/2008 7:16:31 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline