quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

The irony is, that most middleclass and blue collar people who complain about the left wouldn't have it so good if it wasn't for the left.

Typical self-deluding self-rationalization. 

The left has done more to undermine economic opportunity for the middle class and "blue collar" people than anyone else.  The left discourages individual enterprise and individual effort, and then villifies individual success as the cause of all that is evil in the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Term, Hillary's certainly starting to shape up to be "the one in the middle", isn't she?
To the right of Obama and to the left of McCain!
A very wise move me thinks.
Obama is just too far to the left.
He's unelectable.
/quote]

Exactly Popeye. Obama is entirely unelectable and if he gets the nomination the GOP slur machine is going into overdrive to rip him to shreds. This Rev. Wright scandal? A frigging warm up. So unless we want 4 more years of McBush, better keep that in mind. This country cannot afford another 4 years of that type of "administration."  

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(in reply to popeye1250)

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I'd rather pay taxes for the sewage workers and garbage workers to be able to have good healthcare and have their kids in a good school than pay for rich bankers to have tax cuts.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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I'd rather pay taxes for the sewage workers and garbage workers to be able to have good healthcare and have their kids in a good school than pay for rich bankers to have tax cuts.

Talk about deluded.  But then, class warfare rhetoric is an exercise in delusion, so I can't say as I'm surprised.

quote:

It has nothing to do with class war but common decency. (I did notice you ignore but dismiss by implication, the sticky question of the American system denying healthcare to the poor as class warfare)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

It has nothing to do with class war but common decency. (I did notice you ignore but dismiss by implication, the sticky question of the American system denying healthcare to the poor as class warfare)

There's nothing common or decent about class warfare--which is all your pious pontifications are, in the end. 

Not as pious as the attitude that claims the poor are poor because they deserve it which I understand is the rightwing American attitude, especially since the system needs poverty to be able to work.

Bush's tax cuts lowered MY taxes, and I am not one of the "rich" (although in your eyes I probably would be since I am not dependent on government largesse for my daily bread), so that bit of pomposity merely underscores the class warfare foundations of your arguments.

Well, the rich rely on people being grateful for the crumbs that fall off their table. No doubt they are pleased you are grateful. Personally I would call Bush's imperial jolly largesse in the circumstances. Unless you consider subjugating Iraq good for the economy.
 
It is also largesse since the next couple of generations will be paying for your tax cut, now there is welfare if ever I witnessed it.

It's not that I dismiss your "sticky question"--I dismiss your entire position. 

That is a typical American position when it comes to left wing politics, even when tleftwing policies have proved more effective than rightwing policies.

The reality is that the poor are limited in their healthcare choices the world over, and the argument that the American system is particularly deficient is disingenous and basically pathetic.


This is not entirely true, since while the rich tend to use private healthcare for minor ailments in western Europe, when it comes to serious illness they tend to use the same health service as the poor because the national health services have more expertise and experience than private healthcare (as well as being better value for money).