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Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 3:00:14 AM

amenableboy

Posts: 19
Joined: 12/6/2006
Status: offline

One thing I have learned about myself recently is that I am not a very good submissive.

I have recently met a Dominant woman, and she is everything that I could have hoped for: beautiful, intelligent, stylish and I definitely have strong feelings for her. So far, we have spent a great deal of time speaking on the phone, and she will be visiting me in June.

Unfortunately, I have realized something: I am not a very good submissive. Sure, in the heat of sexual passion, I am open to humiliation, degradation, pain and punishment. I find this very erotic, after all.

But, there is more to being a true submissive, a real submissive, than just that. There has to be. There is service, and devotion and loyalty. And in there areas, I am afraid I have not measured up. I have consistently put my own needs first, above hers. And what does that say about me as a submissive?

I have long considered myself a truly submissive man. I have had submissive tendencies and fantasies since my early youth. But, have I been fooling myself? Because, right now, I feel like a complete and total fraud. I have proven myself a flake, a liar and an unreliable person. And if this is the best that I may offer someone, what hope do I have of not only attracting a woman, but keeping her?

I have some work to do on myself, and the first thing I need to do is to learn what it really means to be a submissive, because right now, I clearly do not know.

If anyone reading this would like to offer advice, hints or tips, I am desperately in need of it.

Perhaps one saving grace, and the only thing that makes me feel any better, is that I genuinely want to learn, to be better. I need to be better as a submissive. So, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you all for taking the time to read through this.

Post #: 1

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 3:03:34 AM

Asherdelampyr

Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline

Write a list of your wants and needs, then rank those wants/needs... might help clear your head

_____________________________

Pirate King,

The nicest man you'll ever bleed for

Posting Help

Vitam Piratae Eligo

The Rainmaker

(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 2

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 3:04:55 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Maybe you should take a long, hard look at whether or not submissive shoes are really the ones you long to fill. Maybe bottoming would be a better choice for you.....and if that is what is ultimately better for YOU, that is perfectly ok. I'd much rather BE who I am then try to fill the shoes of who I'm not.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 3

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 3:55:04 AM

TwistedLeather

Posts: 189
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline

It may just be that your mind needs some re-programming. For those who are new, often times habits from the vanilla world, our upbringing, societal and religious teachings and influences, have to be corrected. If you feel that these things that are your fall out as a submissive need changing, then you're on the right track. As long as you're willing to make changes, and allow your Domme to guide and teach you, then you'll be fine... in time. It does take time. You can't just make the choice to change your lifestyle or yourself and *poof!* there it is.

Of course, to be a submissive varies from person to person. In my opinion, there are three different catagories... submissive, slave, and pet. i have been all three, and it's been life events that have changed me from the inside to who i am now. As well as the guidance of those i trust, love, and the one i have lost. But even in those catagories, there are variations and differences based on a person's self and character. What one person finds appealing, another finds repulsive. You have to find someone that balances and matches who you are inside, once you've taken away the negative parts that you feel need changing. Again, this takes time.

But you'll need a patient and understanding Domme to take your hand through this. Unless of course, you'd prefer to be thrown into the alligator pool head first. Sink or swim!

Best of luck to you.

_____________________________

Wishing you lots of whacks and giggles!

www.americantwistedleather.com

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 4

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 4:23:06 AM

purepleasure

Posts: 6941
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline

Ok, first, you are not a bad sub. You recognized a shortcoming and have asked for advice in addressing this. You stated that sometimes you put your needs before the needs of the Domme you are communicating with. Ask yourself why, and what makes these particular needs more important than hers. D/s is a two way street. Dominants have needs, and submissives have needs. It is up to the dominant and submissive involved to work out a solution so that everyone's needs/wants are met.

(in reply to TwistedLeather)

Post #: 5

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 4:32:16 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amenableboy

One thing I have learned about myself recently is that I am not a very good submissive.

That would be for your Domme to decide? No?

I have recently met a Dominant woman, and she is everything that I could have hoped for: beautiful, intelligent, stylish and I definitely have strong feelings for her. So far, we have spent a great deal of time speaking on the phone, and she will be visiting me in June.

Everything you could have hoped for but what? You feel you don't deserve her?

Unfortunately, I have realized something: I am not a very good submissive. Sure, in the heat of sexual passion, I am open to humiliation, degradation, pain and punishment. I find this very erotic, after all.

Unfortuneately needing soeone else to tell me what a good girl I am is part and parcel of my submission also.

But, there is more to being a true submissive, a real submissive, than just that. There has to be. There is service, and devotion and loyalty. And in there areas, I am afraid I have not measured up. I have consistently put my own needs first, above hers. And what does that say about me as a submissive?

= Insight. It says that you are aware of the distinctions between your own needs and hers. Healthy. Aware that you have needs of your own that need to be taken care of.

I have long considered myself a truly submissive man. I have had submissive tendencies and fantasies since my early youth. But, have I been fooling myself? Because, right now, I feel like a complete and total fraud. I have proven myself a flake, a liar and an unreliable person. And if this is the best that I may offer someone, what hope do I have of not only attracting a woman, but keeping her?

This is guilt. A feeling that you are wrong no matter what. Judgeed and hung and drawn at dawn by you yourself. With this degree of gilt I would say you have no chance at all of keeping her. She might find another submissive who doesn't have this self-loathing. Or she might tire of trying to shape you up or beat it out of you.

I have some work to do on myself, and the first thing I need to do is to learn what it really means to be a submissive, because right now, I clearly do not know.

The paradox? You can only be the submissive you are. Just like I can only be who I am. And it seems as if you have enough clarity about who you are to want to change (just a little). The beauty of being a submissive? It's the contentment of knowing that it is within your dominant's eyes that you are perfect if you simply allow that to be the case.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 5/4/2008 4:33:20 AM >

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(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 6

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 4:42:16 AM

WalterRego

Posts: 276
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline

Sounds to me like something made you come to this realization: something she said? asked? told you? required? If so, focus on that and try to work through your feelings on what it is and how you feel about it.

Or it could be the old sub frenzy, wanting to be the best sub you can be now that this seems immanent to you.

No matter what it was that triggered this, chances are you'll just have to go through the whole long process of discovery and learning. There's no magic crop she can wave or one tip anyone here can give you to make you a "good" submissive, whatever that is. And it's lots of different things for different people. Whatever being a good submissive is will mean something different to her than it might mean to another woman. But that's okay because you probably really don't want to be a submissive to any or every woman. But rather to a particular woman, one like te one you've been speaking to whose qualities make you want to serve her and be or become the sort of sub she will want to keep. So, keep focused on her, listening to what she tells you she likes and wants.

In the end, after being with her or perhaps a number of others, you'll probably come out thinking and being someone very different than you are now.

(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 7

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 4:53:00 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

amenableboy,

Guess what? You sound to me like you are a better submissive than most out there. Anyone who can not only, recognize their failings but admit them is ahead of most people. Adding in the fact that you are seeking help to work on them puts you in damn fine company.

Guess what, 99.9% of dominants and submissives are imperfect and about the same percentage of those who claim to be "true" anything are complete nitwits.

quote:

There has to be. There is service, and devotion and loyalty. And in there areas, I am afraid I have not measured up. I have consistently put my own needs first, above hers. And what does that say about me as a submissive?

There is a balance and you have to find a balance that works for you and then find someone else for whom your balance AND her balance work together. To make it even more complicated, every relationship will change that balance point for each of you. Which is why going slow is so important and taking a bit of time to get to know each other. Putting yourself first all the times is doomed to failure, so is putting yourself last. This is your first relationship and it isn't even in real life (no offense) with someone who probably doesn't have much more experience. It ain't gonna be perfect, be patient, just make tomorrow better than today.

quote:

I have long considered myself a truly submissive man. I have had submissive tendencies and fantasies since my early youth. But, have I been fooling myself? Because, right now, I feel like a complete and total fraud.

Finding out fantasies are different than reality only happens as you start to experience reality. You are not guilty of being a fraud but you are guilty of being inexperienced but that will change and so will your feelings about being a fraud.

quote:

I have proven myself a flake, a liar and an unreliable person. And if this is the best that I may offer someone, what hope do I have of not only attracting a woman, but keeping her?

I still am a flake at times and I used to lie to myself and to others. You are right, you need to deal with that before you are going to be able to create and be in a real relationships. However, becoming who you are and being comfortable with that will hopefully allow you to become more honest.

quote:

I have some work to do on myself, and the first thing I need to do is to learn what it really means to be a submissive, because right now, I clearly do not know. If anyone reading this would like to offer advice, hints or tips, I am desperately in need of it.

The work you need to do is become whole with yourself, figure out why you are a flake and why you are dishonest, learn to think of others before acting. Do that and you ARE a better submissive.

(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 8

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 5:49:46 AM

MladyHathor

Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline

I completely agree with SimplyMichael's statements---drop the preconceived notion of what you have read that " defines " submission and define YOU and what YOU want to bring to a relationship then look at your Dominant and how (A) that fits with who She is and (B) what you would like to do to make it better, then (C) talk between you and define what you have or want to have together.

That is how you become a good submissive---

_____________________________

The Mistress Hathor, always and forever, much to the disdain and discomfort of others.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 9

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 5:54:59 AM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

Submitting is hard, ab. If this is your first Mistress, don't be so hard on yourself. (If this is not your first Mistress, don't be too hard on yourself anyway).

As long as you are pleasing her, and as long as she isn't making comments, you're golden. There is no such thing as being a perfect sub. If she is making comments about your performance outside the bedroom, perhaps it would be wise to ask for instruction and guidance as to what she wishes of you.

(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 10

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 6:02:39 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

I use to think I was the worst submissive around. I knew I loved being submissive but because I am a strong and opinionated person I thought this made me a bad submissive. Even when the Dominants told me I was a good submissive, I didn't believe them. I think perhaps because i was believing I wasn't a "good girl" when growing up? But I have found through time and encouragement and confidence that I am a good submissive and a good person but I am human. the most important thing is to express my feelings to my Sir good and bad so that we have honest communication and to stop trying to be a "perfect" or "true" submissive and to just be an honest one.

_____________________________

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Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to batshalom)

Post #: 11

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 6:40:20 AM

Leatherist

Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline

The realization that you need work is a good first step. Very few ever get past the idea that a Dom is more than just a sex toy to be used.

Ponder about how one would help another person to be happy. Then think about how it would make you happy as well. It's not that difficult.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 12

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 7:01:25 AM

lusciouslips19

Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

The realization that you need work is a good first step. Very few ever get past the idea that a Dom is more than just a sex toy to be used..

There not??? But, bbbut, my twue submissive handbook says they are just a sex toy to be used. Capter 1, page 2, paragraph 3. Seee?

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 13

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 7:07:01 AM

BlackPhx

Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amenableboy

But, there is more to being a true submissive, a real submissive, than just that. There has to be. There is service, and devotion and loyalty. And in there areas, I am afraid I have not measured up. I have consistently put my own needs first, above hers. And what does that say about me as a submissive?

I have long considered myself a truly submissive man. I have had submissive tendencies and fantasies since my early youth. But, have I been fooling myself? Because, right now, I feel like a complete and total fraud. I have proven myself a flake, a liar and an unreliable person. And if this is the best that I may offer someone, what hope do I have of not only attracting a woman, but keeping her?

All that you have proven is that you are human. Yes loyalty , service and devotion are a part of a dominant/submissive IF that is the dynamic worked out and EARNED between the two people involved when they are together. It is very difficult to build that type of relationship where the two people involved have not even met face to face. Not impossible, just difficult, beacuse ultimately in a phone and online relationship, everything you see, hear, and do is by your own will and hand. On both sides of the coin, it is self inflicted, or self directed.

Dont be impatient with yourself, or what you onsider your failures. How can you service someone else if your no where near them? How can you offer loyalty and devotion to a voice on a phone and pixels on a screen? Instinctively you are protecting your core self until you see the reality within grasp. Human. Interestingly enough, even when you are first together there will probably be rebellion, testing of limits and boundaries and days when you just balk at everything. This too is Normal. Some of the things you mention you seem to lack right now are not only something she is going to have to earn, but something she will also train you in. How can you be loyal when you don't know what she considers disloyal? How can you serve when service is so personal and needs to be defined by the person you are serving. You are not a bellhop in a hotel, but desireous of being a personal servant..something the person you serve sets the boundaries of with you.

Honesty you have to work on for yourself and the first question to ask yourself is why you feel the need to be dishonest. Is it to protect her, you or to gain something?

Relax, take it one day at a time and find the balance when it is right and both can work at it. If you are not submissive or are situationally submissive or just a bottom, that will be revealed as you learn and grow.

poenkitten

(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 14

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 8:23:18 AM

RipenReady

Posts: 35
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline

It's hard being new. I've had the same thoughts. I used to believe that I didn't deserve my Master and that I wasn't good enough for him and I would always question why he even bothered with me. I had it in my head that I was horrible and I didn't know how to behave and that no one should or ever would want me as their sub. It's hard to get those thoughts out of your head but you have to look at it this way, if your Domme is talking to you then obviously she has some type of interest in you. I'm sure she realizes that you're new to this and she plans on teaching you along the way. I have questioned myself over and over and you'll grow over time just like I have. I have a very dominant personality but that's not who I want to be. I used to be in trouble every day with my Master because of my smart mouth and how I responded to things but I've slowly changed over the few months that we have been together. It's a learning process and communication is a must. I told him how I felt about what I was thinking and how I was feeling and it helped me learn and helped me grow. Maybe you just need to tell your Domme how you feel and what you're thinking and see what she has to say. You have to take everything one day at a time and realize that you're both learning about each other.

(in reply to BlackPhx)

Post #: 15

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 8:31:27 AM

beargonewild

Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

You may think you're a good sub though that is from your point of view. Consider the fact that this Mistress seems to want to invest her time and energy into meeting you and developing a d/s relationship with you. What you could keep in mind is the fact that no submissive is ever perfect, our submission is in constant evolution and is constantly being refined. When you are able to sit down face to face with this Mistress, talk to her about this, get her thoughts and opinions and see what she has to say on this.In the mean time, know yourself as a person, as a submissive; know and understand what your basic wants/needs/desires are.

_____________________________

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(in reply to amenableboy)

Post #: 16

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 8:37:35 AM

Ellsa

Posts: 37
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: minnesota
Status: offline

ripenready
thank you for posting that
ellsa

(in reply to RipenReady)

Post #: 17

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 9:24:20 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

If you haven't even met your domme yet, how can you judge wheither or not you are a good submissive.
As for putting your wants and desires ahead of someone you haven't met , you might consider that even saints struggled with that one - and lost.
You wouldn't be human if you didn't have trouble with putting someone ahead of you. Women are programmed by society and instinct to do that (think child rearing - if it wasn't so, my kids would be dead long ago for all the trouble and heart ache they put me through- lol). Men are taught to be upfront and "the leader", and part of that is being used to accepting others regard and favours. You are going against everything people have tried to install in you, so IMO, you have the harder row to hoe.(just as i think it is harder for dommes to domme,for the same reason).

Give yourself a break , give yourself permission to be less than perfect - and do try to enjoy your life. Its the only one you have, and if it doesn't give you joy, then it isn't worth doing.

(in reply to Ellsa)

Post #: 18

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 9:38:57 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

Frankly, there are some who are submissive only during sex (or perhaps the entire session) but it ends when they walk out that door. You need to take a look at yourself and ask if this is all that you want. If so, be clear with your Mistress about it.

IF you want to be submissive more of the time, start with the fact that you call yourself a liar. Work on always telling Her the truth, no matter how difficult it is. Truth and trust go hand in hand.

I applaud you for being able to see that you have some areas to work on. Once you know your true goal you can take steps. Talk it over with your Mistress, let Her know what areas you know you need to work on, and remember that training takes time. I adore my Master, but that doesn't mean that I have nothing more to learn or will never make mistakes. He and I work together on areas where I need to improve. (My biggest problem is fears that come about due to a low self esteem. I spend too much time worrying if I am good enough for Him rather than putting the energy into making sure that I am.)

_____________________________

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 19

RE: Advice for a bad submissive - 5/4/2008 9:57:41 AM

GabrielleSlave

Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
Status: offline

All i can say is THANKYOU for starting this thread. i too worry about my service and my ability to please my Master; i am a headstrong and impetuous girl and this side of me exasperates Master... i am working on my responses and actions and sometimes despair of succeeding! You are not alone and all the answers given here have helped me too so THANKYOU again!!!

love and hugs

Gabrielle x

_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 20

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