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RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 8:45:06 AM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Perhaps its just that my world isn't as black or white, or as rigid as your world. Anything that doesn't fall within your belief system is total BS.

Your recent definition of a Libertarian should have been telling enough for any thinking person to take anything else you have to say with a grain of salt.

And you call me telling? ...

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 9:49:50 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Perhaps its just that my world isn't as black or white, or as rigid as your world. Anything that doesn't fall within your belief system is total BS.

Your recent definition of a Libertarian should have been telling enough for any thinking person to take anything else you have to say with a grain of salt.

And you call me telling? ...


See you misunderstood. I called you a hypocrite. I said your statement was telling.

I don't need to believe in real medicine. It is tested scientifically and by and large works. The alternative meds BS is at best placebo effect and at worst does people real harm for no reason except a strange anti reality compulsion some people seem almost unable to rise above. You yourself acknowledge that if you really need medical care you're going to get real medical care. Not spinal adjustments to cure disease as chiros claim. Not acupuncture to cure diabetes or the like. No herbal concoctions if you've got cancer.

Always remember real medicine doubled life expectancy over the various traditional medicines that make up most of 'alternative medicine.'

BTW go to a Libertarian Party meeting and you tell me who you meet there. I did that whole scene a while back and know exactly of whom I speak.


(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 12:03:49 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

See you misunderstood. I called you a hypocrite. I said your statement was telling.

I don't need to believe in real medicine. It is tested scientifically and by and large works. The alternative meds BS is at best placebo effect and at worst does people real harm for no reason except a strange anti reality compulsion some people seem almost unable to rise above. You yourself acknowledge that if you really need medical care you're going to get real medical care. Not spinal adjustments to cure disease as chiros claim. Not acupuncture to cure diabetes or the like. No herbal concoctions if you've got cancer.

Always remember real medicine doubled life expectancy over the various traditional medicines that make up most of 'alternative medicine.'

BTW go to a Libertarian Party meeting and you tell me who you meet there. I did that whole scene a while back and know exactly of whom I speak.


Look again, and read carefully. It's all there, Ken. What I acknowledged is that I'm glad to have conventional medicine at my disposal in the event of a catastrophic injury or failure. For clarification purposes, I later added that conventional medicine, and treating symptoms, have their time and place in situations like injuries, heart attacks, and other life-threatening catastrophics.

I'd like you to explain how this make me a hypocrite... that is, to anyone other than a person who has a black or white outlook, is rigid in their thinking, and believes everything outside their belief-system is total BS?  

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 1:24:36 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		This is what you said.
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
I'm glad to have conventional medicine at my disposal in the event of a catastrophic injury or failure. I'd certainly want them to use any measure to save my life and put my body back together. But for any other problem, I'd prefer alternative medicine to seek the cause of what ails me, instead of using conventional medicine to treat symptoms.


Like I said before, your life is threatened you want real medicine but else you will get by with quackery. Not a consistent stand and at opposition with your claimed beliefs which is hypocritical.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 2:47:09 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

This is what you said.
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
I'm glad to have conventional medicine at my disposal in the event of a catastrophic injury or failure. I'd certainly want them to use any measure to save my life and put my body back together. But for any other problem, I'd prefer alternative medicine to seek the cause of what ails me, instead of using conventional medicine to treat symptoms.


Like I said before, your life is threatened you want real medicine but else you will get by with quackery. Not a consistent stand and at opposition with your claimed beliefs which is hypocritical.



In a life-threatening situation, only a fool would worry about anything other than treating the symptoms first. Conventional medicine is very good at treating emergencies, and I give them credit where credit is due. This in itself is a part of my claimed beliefs.

This is not rocket science here, Ken. It's that black or white thinking of yours which discombobulates your reasoning skills. In your rigid mind, you think I should have no interest in conventional medicine whatsoever, simply because alternative medicine is my primary interest. It's all or nothing with you. You see any deviation from black or white as being hypocritical. How sad. 

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 5:24:03 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		What's sad is you apparently fail to understand that on one hand you reject the scientific evidence showing alternative medicine is bunk but you then will seek to use real medicine which is supported by the scientific method you reject when it is convenient to you.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 6:26:35 PM   
ThinkingKitten


Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline 		FR:
Everyone might want to visit this site, to find out what really should be labelled/banned:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html




_____________________________

Thinking Kitten

If you can't stand the heat... tell the chef to get out of the kitchen.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 6:55:14 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What's sad is you apparently fail to understand that on one hand you reject the scientific evidence showing alternative medicine is bunk but you then will seek to use real medicine which is supported by the scientific method you reject when it is convenient to you.


Geez, take a good look at yourself, Ken. You're living in a black and white world, and taking non-sensical pot-shots at those who choose to take the best of all worlds as they see fit.

This has nothing to do with hypocrisy, and everything to do with people freely doing what they believe is best for themselves.

Go ahead, keep it up. You're painting a very clear picture of who you really are. 

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 9:05:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThinkingKitten

FR:
Everyone might want to visit this site, to find out what really should be labelled/banned:
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html




Nasty stuff water.

(in reply to ThinkingKitten)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/10/2008 9:20:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What's sad is you apparently fail to understand that on one hand you reject the scientific evidence showing alternative medicine is bunk but you then will seek to use real medicine which is supported by the scientific method you reject when it is convenient to you.


Geez, take a good look at yourself, Ken. You're living in a black and white world, and taking non-sensical pot-shots at those who choose to take the best of all worlds as they see fit.

This has nothing to do with hypocrisy, and everything to do with people freely doing what they believe is best for themselves.

Go ahead, keep it up. You're painting a very clear picture of who you really are. 

I live in the real world. The world where sticking tiny needles into someone releases endorphins but doesn't cure disease. The world where homeopathic 'cures' are simply water, alcohol or sugar with no medicinal value at all. The same world where praying over someone does not result in their diabetes being cured. The same world where having your back cracked won't cure any disease and only provides temporary relief from actual spinal problems. The world where sperm and ova are not responsible for anyone's outlook on life. The same world where enemas do not detoxify people.

You apparently know that the real world is the one you live in but want to reject that truth for some reason unless you're actually in need of medical aid. Now that would simply be your own sad little delusion but there is a small chance that you'll convince someone that whatever foolish crap you peddle is real and that person might actually be harmed by your blather so I point out your hypocrisy and ignorance in the hope that that will give pause to anyone who might otherwise believe you.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 12:05:01 AM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
Joined: 8/14/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, that's enough.  If you can't discuss the issue without reverting to this, please don't even bother.

XI


_____________________________

This mod goes to eleven.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 12:21:07 AM   
LilMissMisery


Posts: 25
Joined: 10/10/2007
Status: offline 		*fast reply*

Stevia is commonly used in homemade lip balm, because it works well with otherwise unsweetened flavors to give the balm its taste, especially when mixing into wax and oils is concerned.. As a sweetener it's very definitely an acquired taste. I'm not crazy about it... especially in tea that already has anise in it. Makes it taste funky.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 1:09:03 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		~FR~  I am agreeing with subfever here (that is probably no surprise )...
I, for One, would not ever go to the chermo and radiation therapy, for example, should I be diagnosed with a cancer.  I truly admire those people who are willing to go through that, but I would take alternatives everytime and go for the quality of life.  However, I agree that that is just My opinion and My personal choice.
That said...If I needed to have My gallbladder or appendix out,  if I had a severely broken bone that could require surgery to propertly repair, if I suffered a heart attack, as examples, then I am, like subfever, grateful that I live in a modern era wherein quick and good fixes are available to Me.  It might also be a good thing to recall that aspirin is based upon the natural remedy of willowbark, and digitalis comes from foxglove.
I do not believe that alternative medicine is bunk.  I know many people do and I respect their choices.  But I have treated My UM's when they were so tiny they still had to be in My arms, with homeopathic remedies for a stuffy nose, etc., and it works.  No mind over matter.  A tiny little thing was breathing freely  and sleeping peacefully in a few minutes.  *shrug*  I can't object to that. 
I would not presume to tell others how to treat their personal medical conditions.  Some people tolerate well the chemical drug therapy (such as broad spectrum antobiotics), while others, such as Myself, do not. 
I got the main point of this thread not to be what methods of medical care people choose, but rather that we have a federal agency who obviously works hand in hand with big business and, for no real apparent reason, makes it difficult for people to even learn about what might be a safe alternative to the standard natural sugars as well as the chemical sugar substitutes that many people are obliged to choose.  And also that we would like to have the choices, instead of having an agency dictate to us what is okay and what is not.  Especially when that agency had been known to hand down proclamations based on the corporate lobby of the moment. 
I had never even heard of Stevia, and I try to be up on most of the alternatives out there.  I would just like to be permitted to exercise My  intelligence and check out the info.  I don't need a big brother or a nanny to help Me out so much. 
There is, as always, a place for some reasonable regulation.  Once again, I feel the the government, working with corporations, have overstepped their bounds. 

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to LilMissMisery)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 2:56:13 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I live in the real world.


Real, huh? I think you've made it quite clear to all here on this thread, what world you really live in.

There are many shades of gray between that black or white world of yours. To label those who choose to pursue something other than all black or all white as ignorant hypocrites is a reflection upon you... not upon those you label.



(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 3:09:09 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I would just like to be permitted to exercise My intelligence and check out the info.


Are you asking my permission? ...

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 3:13:40 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

I live in the real world.


Real, huh? I think you've made it quite clear to all here on this thread, what world you really live in.

There are many shades of gray between that black or white world of yours. To label those who choose to pursue something other than all black or all white as ignorant hypocrites is a reflection upon you... not upon those you label.

Note mod XI's post. You went to the mods and complained and now try and continue insulting me? That's pretty bad form.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 3:19:20 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

I live in the real world.


Real, huh? I think you've made it quite clear to all here on this thread, what world you really live in.

There are many shades of gray between that black or white world of yours. To label those who choose to pursue something other than all black or all white as ignorant hypocrites is a reflection upon you... not upon those you label.

Note mod XI's post. You went to the mods and complained and now try and continue insulting me? That's pretty bad form.


I said nothing to the mods. Not my style.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 3:22:49 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluebird

Not sure how old (or paranoid) that article is, but I regularly buy stevia at Trader Joe's in the sweetener section.  It's readily available, not illegal as far as I can tell.  It's kind of an acquired taste - it does NOT taste like sugar to me, but it does satisfy that sweetness craving enough.


Yes, I buy mine at Trader Joe's also. After years of battle with the FDA, it's no longer illegal to sell it, but it's still illegal to label it as a sweetener.

I agree that it does not taste like sugar. It has sort of a subtle licorice-like flavor. And it's more of a hassle to get it to mix in liquid, than sugar. 

From Stevia Rebaudiana: Nature's Sweet Secret, Vital Health Publishing:


The FDA's position on Stevia is somewhat ambiguous. In 1991, citing a preliminary mutagenicity study, the FDA issued an import alert which effectively blocked the importation and sale of Stevia in this country. Ironically, this was the year that a follow-up study found flaws in the first study and seriously questioned its results.

In September of 1995, the FDA revised its import alert to allow Stevia and its extracts to be imported as a food supplement but not as a sweetener. Yet, it defines Stevia as an unapproved food additive, not affirmed as GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) in the United States. The following is a portion of this revised alert:

"If Stevia is to be used in a dietary supplement for a technical effect, such as use as a sweetener or flavoring agent, and is labeled as such, it is considered an unsafe food additive. However, in the absence of labeling specifying that stevia is being or will be used for technical effect, use of stevia as a dietary ingredient in a dietary supplement is not subject to the food additive provisions of FD & C ACT."

In our opinion, this revision represents a political compromise between the artificial sweetener and sugar lobbyists and the Natural Food Industry and its representatives, as mediated by the FDA.


Uhmmmmm....ever tried sugar?

(In case anyone was wondering...it tastes quite a bit like sugar).


< Message edited by Griswold -- 5/11/2008 3:24:12 PM >

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 3:41:18 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Uhmmmmm....ever tried sugar?

(In case anyone was wondering...it tastes quite a bit like sugar).


Yes, but some people are not supposed to eat sugar, and others choose not to eat it. So these people need alternatives... and preferably, a healthy alternative.

(in reply to Griswold)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Stevia & the FDA - 5/11/2008 3:43:33 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

Uhmmmmm....ever tried sugar?

(In case anyone was wondering...it tastes quite a bit like sugar).


Yes, but some people are not supposed to eat sugar, and others choose not to eat it. So these people need alternatives... and preferably, a healthy alternative.



Thank you...valid point (my error)

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 40
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