Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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There will always be people who think everything is fine. This phenomenon along with most arguments in the world are caused by difficulty with language.
I see the current problem ; some are assuming that convicted = guilty. Convicted no more means guilty than guilty means convicted. I have done plenty for which I never got caught, not that I give a shit except for one thing, there is a possibility that someone else got convicted for it. I hope it never happened but there is no way to know.
And as far as my choice of friends, the guy was locked up for growing pot. If you believe that is a criminal act I simply do not know what to say. He works hard and supports his family and is the only person I have loaned $500 to who paid it back when he said he would, in one lump sum instead of dribbing and drabbing me $50 here and there. It was just at the start of his working season right after he had a major expenditure to expand the business (bought a backhoe) to the tune of $25,000. He needed the money to make payroll because first and foremost he pays the guys. I have also owed him $500 and am probably the only one who paid him back in a lump sum, in fact ahead of schedule. It was to be paid when I got my income tax refund but he called and said he was going on vacation and was looking for the most money so anything I could come up with. I borrowed it, paid him and my check was here about a week later so I paid the other person the same way I got the money, all at once.
Doesn't quite sound like a criminal to me. And that is part of the point. My original point was that we need better ways to punish, and therefore deter crime. The prisons are nothing but crime schools, universities in fact. But the thing is, define crime.
Was our pot grower sitting there telling people how to get a better crop ? I'd bet he was.
Then we have the rapists. I say give them a taste of their own medicine, but in spades. Make it hurt, bad. What makes that favorable to castration is that it is not permanent and there are enough cases of supposed rape where the "victim" recanted that a permanent body modification is not warranted. Also, Men who have had vasectomies can still get hard, so what would castration accomplish anyway ?
Murderers on the other hand, if actually guilty rather than merely convicted should be executed. After all they killed somebody which is permanent. However guilt should be determined beyond any doubt. There also is the issue of mitigation, like in the case of self defense or mutual combat.
The case to which I referred in Texas was one that made the news all the way up north here. Irrefutable evidence exonerating him was presented to the court. They saw it but it was too late. Well they SAID it was too late, he had not been executed yet. I have no doubt the same evidence along with a full transcript of the trial was presented to the US supreme court. They did not rule that Texas must or should execute him, they ruled that Texas had the right to execute him, even though he had not commited the crime. Texas exercised that right.
Now if there was ever a good reason that governors of states have the abilit to pardon or commute sentences, a case like this was it. However knowing who the governor of Texas was at the time, what did we expect ?
But I am equally dismayed by the supreme court's decision. The final artiber of the law of the land lends more importance to arbitrarily set rules and regulations than to human life.
And that's not even the whole thing. What kind of people will persue the right to execute someone who didn't commit the crime ? See I carefully avoided the word innocent to avoid another fucking spiel about that.
The whole court system is a sad joke. Now they put it on TV, they might as well, everything else on TV is bullshit. Like Judge Hatchett (that job has got to go), if I was one of those troubled kids there things would go differently. But that's me.
Mom would never be so stupid to try something like that. My answers would really stun them. Deal drugs ? what do you need ? I can get you almost anything.
Do drugs ? None of your business.
Money ? I do with it as I please.
Boot camp ? You ain't sending me nowhere because this is not a real court. You try I'll see you all in a real court. She can't sign those rights over to you and if you force me you are guilty of kidnapping and illegal detainment. This is not the same thing as forcing someone to sign over a car title. So try it and I will see you in a real court with a real judge.
Just like these interventions they do with bad drunks or drug abusers. They are not the law, the subject always has the right to walk out the door and be gone.
However a real court is different.
Recently in Ohio they had to get some 20 odd people go after being convicted on bogus charges. The informant was definitely not working for them, he purposely got a bunch of innocent people busted. Got them convicted. Well one happened, apparently to have enough money to file an appeal. Most of the rest of them did not even have to file.
What the snitch's motivation was is not clear, but I would say it is one of a couple of things that should not be hard to sort out. He could have been in hot water and wanted to give them a good body count or he could know the REAL people and been trying to draw heat off of them. But the real problem is that it worked until they snagged someone with the wherewithal to fight it. But they all did time, and you can't give back time.
Solving this mess involves rethinking the whole thing. If we were to cut off someone's pinky finger for stealing, we would have to be damn sure they did it. Perhaps incarceration would still have it's place. Someone refusing the quick punishment would be sent to jail. However this is still a form of coersion.
The only way to avoid coersion is to make the rules clear cut. They coerce everybody, guilty and innocent alike, by trumping up the charges and hoping for a deal. That's what a good defense lawyer knows, they want to avoid trial just as much as the defendant. Thus there are deals.
The real deal is that justice is justice. Justice could be proscribed very precisely, but it is not. I mean instead of sentencing guidelines there would be set sentences, in the case of theft, the value of the items stolen. Of course it would be adjusted for inflation.
Restitution is made in a prison labor situation, if made in cash it is treble damages. If made by work it is actual damages. Opt out of restitution, then that is really theft and you have the option to lose PART of your right pinky finger. Everyone you shake hands with for the rest of your life will know. Most will choose restitution.
If by work, there are set wages, quite low but we are feeding and clothing them. Kinda like being in the army. Inmates could be given the opportunity to only work part time and get schooling. After completing that their wage goes up speeding their release. But they would learn that a bit of time invested now can pay off later, gain some kind of skill and possibly recidivism would be greatly reduced.
Back to rapists, but first the kid who got caned in Singapore a while back. You have to remember this it was all over the news. As you know you can get arrested for spitting in the street there. Their laws are way more restrictive than even CM rules. But that does not withstand the fact that the kid committed a crime. He vandalised someone's property.
So he got caned and I have no problem with that. The reason ? It is their law. And it did not kill him. And it did not take away years of his life. Think about that.
My buddy had known Peteroo for a long time. Peteroo was all fucked up one day and caught a vehicular homicide. He did quite a number of years for that, which he should because he killed a kid. Like some ex-cons he actually had some guilt. When he got out his actions indicated that. One of the things he did, when in the joint, was to draw cartoons, and he used to send them to my buddy. This shit was off the wall, some of it hilarious.
When he got out he asked for it all back. It came clear that he had plenty of time to think and he thought of himself as a piece of shit. We all used to get [probably too] high back then and one day ol Peteroo tried to kill me, well at least himself too.
One day I was driving down the freeway in Mom's little S10 pickup, it was on long term loan, just keep it up, which I did (that new clutch hurt though). Well Pete starts talking about his accident and all this and I have no idea what he was on, but he tried to grab the steering wheel and crash us at like 60MPH. In an S10 that can hurt.
Welllittle did heknow that I previously owned a Buick Electra 225 in which the power steering did not work. For years, hardly anyone else could drive this car. My arms almost looked like legs. He is pulling with both hands on the top of the wheel and couldn't do it. Otherwise I would be dead.
We neared the exit to my buddies house who had introduced us and I dropped him off. I was going to take him home in Lakewood but after that I figured it would not be such a good idea. Well he decides to climb in the window and make all sorts of noise.
I talked to my buddy the next day "See Pete last night ?". Oh boy. Yup he saw im, heard im, and stabbed im. Iasked how many times and he replied twice. I said what happened then ? he said "I drove him home".
This is all true and I have not embellished, that is the way we were. But that is not the point.
Here we got Pete, with all that time in prison, thinking, really thinking about what he has done. When you want to die I think there is remorse involved don't you ?
In a way he feels that his time in prison did not pay off his debt to society. With a certain level and type of inebreation he decides to die, in a vehicle, with someone he has known for a very short time.
My buddy probably only stabbed him in the arm or however else, not deeply. Just getting his attention, I guess it worked since he drove him home, but this guy was really out of it at first.
He didn't take my life but he certainly took his own. Too much hard drugs, liquor, all of it. At first when he got out he seemed to be doing alright, but he basically let hislife sink. Back to partying all the time, quit working, did the welfare thing a while and who knows what else. My buddy saw him quite a time later, he wanted to sell him some food stamps. Yes they were stamps back then.
The guy had guilt, true guilt, not the store boughten kind. It was never dealt with. When you have true guilt, it wants to be expressed. If you allow it, guilt will impel you to want to be intoxicated. This facilitates the expression.
So Peteroo really was guilty, and he found out what that meant. He destroyed his life, most likely because he had that innate moral sense that told him that he did not deserve his life. If someone would have addressed this issue properly he could still be a productive member of society.
He was no scientist or leader, but aren't regular people important too ? Texas says you file a paper with the court in 31 days instead of 30 days you can lose your life. Are we that unimportant ?
Oh, and another cool idea for rapists, a nice radical one so nobody thinks I am going sane. LOL.
Makem wear chastity belts. If they maintain their innocence, or under certain other circumstances they can choose incarceration. During the whole time they are belted. They will do the sentence, and the time required to pay back the money on the CB. The finest and most secure in the world.
But remember, it is not castration. What if DNA evidence clears him later ? What if the "victim" is in tears saying she lied on TV ? A chastity belt can be removed, but how can a castration be removed ?
Illogical thinking on this subject has been so pervasive for so long that I understand it might take time for some to catch up.
But I don't see a hell of alot of people defending the system we have. Wonder why ?
OK, another angle, and somebody did mention this, what about a petty theft ? OK, being a nut, but if you think about it .............
You know those lockable fist mitts ? I saw a pretty cool pair at a club, inflatable. Now what if the perp of a petty theft was sentenced to wear one of those for a time ? Which hand did it ?
Think about that, by mandate of law to avoid incarceration you agree to wear it for X time. You lose the use of one hand, but it is not cut off, when the sentence is over, you are all still there.
This is all just a bunch of ideas, like anything they would have to be used in moderation. And that is a contradiction almost, but the thing is, if a punishment could be effective and not cost the taxpayers alot, it should be consuidered.
And as far as the Constitution is concerned about cruel and unusual punishment, I would note that it says AND. That means that cruel punishment can be applied. That means unusual punishment can be applied. But something that is both cannot.
This infers the intent to be that punishment can be varied to fit the crime. But it should not be cruel, or something like that.
And, so they caned that kid in Singapore, would you rather they locked him up for ten years ? Our system is proving not to be better.
T
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RE: Crime & Punishment - 
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