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Transparency - 5/7/2008 5:28:39 AM   
StormsSlave


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I have been mentally exploring the concept of slavery.  In spite of my screen name here, I am not actually a slave by anyone's definition.  (The screenname is a combination of My Lord's name and one of our humiliation play petnames.)  I am interested primarily because I don't understand it, and I'm a person who likes to have at least some understanding of most things.

I shared a brief but extremely productive Cmail correspondence with a fellow poster here regarding the topic.  One of the things she described in the dynamic of her M/s relationship was, and I'm stealing her word, transparency.  She is to share her thoughts, feelings, etc, with her master in a way that makes makes her "transparent" to him.  I have been deeply pondering this ever since I read it.

I am not transparent to My Lord, nor does he require me to be, though I do believe he would find it less complicated to coexist with me if I were more so.  I am a private person.  I weigh my words carefully, in most circumstances.  I also know myself well.  Many times my feelings are my brain's way of telling me that I need to think something through, and if I approach My Lord with all of these raw feelings without completing the thought processes on them, well, it would have him running in circles, frankly.  If I work it through in my way and then approach him with both the feelings and the the thought process, it gives him something we can work with.

I'm not talking about open communication about thoughts and feelings, as that's a given when it's important to do so.  I'm talking about complete, upfront transparency with your partner.  (To the aforementioned friend, I don't know this is exactly as you described it.  I admit it's really where my thoughts have gone since our discussion.)

My questions are these.
As a slave/sub, are you required in your relationship to be completely "transparent?"    Do you find it difficult to do so?  My initial emotions are often changed in the light of clear thought.  Do you approach your dom/master with your feelings before you determine if they are justified, or do you speak out of emotion and then reapproach him/her after you've thought things through?

For those of you who remain more private, do you think it would be difficult to give up your innermost thoughts/feelings/dreams?  Is this level of transparency something you desire?  If your dom/master began to request/require this, do you think you would be able to accomodate them?

And for the dom(mes): How much transparency do you desire and require?  Does it make mastering your sub/slave less complicated?  Do you prefer they come to you with raw emotion then return with calm thoughts, or would you prefer they think things through before any discussion?

I thank you in advance for any light you might shine on this with your willingness to share.

_____________________________

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 5:32:51 AM   
DesFIP


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Emotional transparency is what we strive for. And being an intensely private person, it's damned difficult. At the same time, it is because I am so intensely private that I yearn to be known completely, understood completely and loved fully anyway. And that's the crux of it, that he will know the parts of me I am ashamed of and love them. That he doesn't love me despite my faults but because of them.

Oh, sub here, not slave.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 6:22:11 AM   
DominantJenny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

And for the dom(mes): How much transparency do you desire and require?  Does it make mastering your sub/slave less complicated?  Do you prefer they come to you with raw emotion then return with calm thoughts, or would you prefer they think things through before any discussion?

I thank you in advance for any light you might shine on this with your willingness to share.


For me, privacy isn't really an option. I'm basically a mind-reader; if I get to know you (and I have to if I'm involved with you!), I will develop an almost uncanny ability to know exactly what you are thinking and feeling and the whys and wherefores of that. I can't help myself...I actually try NOT to do this at times, but I am so sensitive to things like tone of voice, body language, word usage (or avoidance), etc, that I unconsciously build an understanding of the way someone's mind works in such fine detail that I can often speak what they are thinking in a situation word-for-word. I'm not perfect, of course, and some stuff certainly does get by me (usually detailed specifics, though, I pretty much always have a fairly accurate picture of overall situation.)
It's NOT easy to live with, though, for the right sort of person, it can be quite thrilling to have someone know you so well. So I specifically try to look for people who are okay with this; "I'm a private person" is something I would react to with this explanation.
I insist on complete openness in my relationships, partly because I can't really function any other way, but also because I do strongly prefer it. It's also very stressful for me to be getting one message from someone's mouth and another from their body/brain. (This is actually why I have some social issues. A certain amount of "perceptiveness" is considered a positive trait, but I have a lot of trouble gauging how much is too much or too little, so I frequently come across as either thick or a threat. Mostly was a problem in work situations, which is why I do much better as a SAHM.) Don't make me pretend not to know what I know, you know? It's like asking someone to act like they are less intelligent or skilled than they are, even worse on a long-term basis.
As to some of what you've said...even though I know what's going on in his head, there are plenty of times where I will wait till he has his thoughts in order before addressing an issue. I know the difference between raw, unconsidered emotion and processed emotion, and I adjust for that accordingly.
Life with me is very, very intimate. For some, it's great, for others, it's not their thing, and that's okay.

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 7:25:05 AM   
tandm


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My master wants me to be very open with him.  He has always said communication is very important of this sort of lifestyle.  Without communication, things can go downhill fast.  My master wants me to tell   him everything and he also has me keep a journal that I am to write down all my thoughts, feelings, frustrations and desires (and he can read it at will).  I have gotten in trouble with him when I have not told him things, as life has a way of revealing things.

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 7:51:33 AM   
batshalom


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

I'm not talking about open communication about thoughts and feelings, as that's a given when it's important to do so.  I'm talking about complete, upfront transparency with your partner. 

My questions are these.
As a slave/sub, are you required in your relationship to be completely "transparent?"    Do you find it difficult to do so?  My initial emotions are often changed in the light of clear thought.  Do you approach your dom/master with your feelings before you determine if they are justified, or do you speak out of emotion and then reapproach him/her after you've thought things through?




Let me preface this by saying ... in my experience

Being transparent has a very vague dividing line. If I am not somewhat private, I overshare and it becomes burdensome on the other person. If I am too private, I way undershare, which is the same burden. Finding a happy medium can be difficult.

I don't like the feeling I get when I'm being transparent and sharing everything because it feeds my tendency to be codependent (and my high need for congruity really balks at not having the same consideration in return, which also feeds my codepedent tendencies, even after a lot of therapy ... but at least I can recognize it when I feel it now).

Being asked to be transparent makes me feel great, initially. If, however, after a time he is not responding well, and not sharing in return, I get clingy and unsure of myself. So, for me, being transparent isn't the best option, which I explain up front. It's far healthier for me to maintain some distance and privacy so that I can process and make decisions about appropriate sharing.

Interesting topic.

< Message edited by batshalom -- 5/7/2008 7:52:14 AM >

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 8:35:12 AM   
aleshaDreams


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quote:

For those of you who remain more private, do you think it would be difficult to give up your innermost thoughts/feelings/dreams? Is this level of transparency something you desire? If your dom/master began to request/require this, do you think you would be able to accomodate them?
 

The most intense relationship I experienced was one in which the male was able to break the barriers I had built up.  It actually was a relief in many ways to not carry the burden of those things that festered and haunted my mind continually.  I am an independant person, very private and carry alot of thoughts that have no escape...... so having someone that truly is interested in listening sometimes without judgement and sometimes to help you though those haunts really is a blessing in my opinion.  I suppose in much of my journey through life remaining silent has been a downfall, not voicing my concerns and sharing my thoughts.  The walls have been built to high, walls that are easier to put up than take down.  Edited to add: I crave the day in which a compatible partner enters my life so that I can live the freedom I desire to, and would accommodate this because it would be the only way I could approach it, and the only way I would want it to be.


< Message edited by aleshaDreams -- 5/7/2008 8:38:34 AM >

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 8:57:44 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I think people who make a big deal out of "transparency" are the ones who tend to have the weakest communication skills and security level in their relationships.  People should be open to eachoher, and of course a slave needs to be informing their master on whatever level is appropriate, but the more you have to force it or talk about it, the less you're actually just doing it.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1464297/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#1464588
Using your submissives thoughts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_902189/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#902281
The hurdles of transparency

http://www.collarchat.com/m_637957/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#637994
Transparency button

http://www.collarchat.com/m_287507/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#287559
Transparency

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 9:11:40 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think people who make a big deal out of "transparency" are the ones who tend to have the weakest communication skills and security level in their relationships.  People should be open to eachoher, and of course a slave needs to be informing their master on whatever level is appropriate, but the more you have to force it or talk about it, the less you're actually just doing it.


As you know, I'm totally transparent to him.  We don't really talk about being transparent, but this is required of me and at this point, the only way I can operate.  I can only deal with truth, even if it is hard, raw truth that neither of us likes.  There is no such thing as telling him "too much" (his opinion) so I share everything I think and feel about my slavery, me, him, and our relationship.  This is how he knows my mind well enough to manage me as he does.  The level that is "appropriate" for me, is the more the better.  This leaves no guess work, and educates him on not only what I am thinking and feeling, but how I think and feel.

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 10:35:56 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave
And for the dom(mes): How much transparency do you desire and require?  Does it make mastering your sub/slave less complicated?  Do you prefer they come to you with raw emotion then return with calm thoughts, or would you prefer they think things through before any discussion?


I require a lot of transparency.  It's a point of pride for me to know my girl as well as she knows herself.  Sometimes better.  She is special, a treasure, and I want to know everything there is to know about her because I value her so highly.  It does give me greater insight into her hopes, fears, desires, and so on, which does put her more under my power.  But I wouldn't say it makes my dominance role any less complicated.
 
Chances are, I'm going to know she's upset about something without her saying it.  If I ask what's wrong and she responds with "I'm a private person and I don't care to talk about it" that's going to piss me off in a big, bad way.  It tells me that she doesn't think I'm capable of understanding her feelings, devalues our relationship to the point that she doesn't view my input as helpful, that she is not taking the Owner/slave dynamic seriously enough for my tastes and we need to reevaluate the relationship, or some combination of the above.
 
I would rather my girl came to me and said something along the lines of "I'm feeling X and it's causing me distress."  There may or may not be anything I can do to resolve her distress but, at the very least, I can offer her a sounding board to vent and reassure her. 
 
If the issue involves me, then we can work on it.  If she wants and needs it, I can give her time to process and then return to the issue.  But she has to tell me "I am feeling X because of something you did/said/failed to say/do and it's causing me distress but I need some time to get myself together before I can discuss it rationally with you."  Having her ask for time to process is better than not knowing exactly what's going on with her. 

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 10:39:52 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

...Do you approach your dom/master with your feelings before you determine if they are justified, or do you speak out of emotion and then reapproach him/her after you've thought things through?...


yes.
 
He gets it all.  Even random thoughts that pass through this slave's head.  He decides what, if anything will be done with it after it is revealed to Him.  If this slave is too emotional to convey her thoughts or feelings, which, due to hormonal overload issues, has actually happened, He will tell her to come to Him after she is able to communicate and not just sit there blubbering incoherently.
 
what He doesn't get is yelled at, disrespected, mocked or anger thrown in His direction, regardless of the impetus.  if that is what this slave is feeling, she can keep that to herself, or channel that somewhere else.  He is not this slave's emotional punching bag for whatever happens in her life that causes her to feel anger.
 
we have never spoken of what is required of this slave as "transparency".  we refer to it as being respectfully open and honest.

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 11:56:19 AM   
DesFIP


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Oh, about the only time I try to not share is when I'm angry. That I need time to process. I'm not comfortable with anger plus about the only times I'm overwhelmed with it is when I'm also tired and/or hungry. He does have a habit of probing and not liking me blowing up out of left field, so he's okay if I say I'm too tired to think straight.

But anything other than anger I tend to go to him with. A couple of minutes of him holding me is a lot better than me stewing for days. And even when angry, we try to hold each other, just silently then and talk it out in the morning.

However he shares too. I can't share me with someone who doesn't share in return. As far as codependent, the truth is that he does want that to a degree. The line there is when is enough too much and it seems to move with how stressed we are.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 12:48:01 PM   
TwoNYCDommes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

And for the dom(mes): How much transparency do you desire and require?  Does it make mastering your sub/slave less complicated?  Do you prefer they come to you with raw emotion then return with calm thoughts, or would you prefer they think things through before any discussion?



I use a hybrid approach.  When slave is feeling some strong raw emotion, I require him to share it with me briefly, then mull it over on his own, and return to it later for a full discussion.  That way, I always know in general terms what he is feeling, but he has a chance to work through it himself--and reach a point where his mood is more conducive to constructive conversation--before delving into it deeply with me.  The initial brief discussion also gives me an opportunity to immediately correct any possible misunderstandings, privide any appropriate reassurance, and possibly suggest avenues for him to consider as he works through it.

(in reply to StormsSlave)
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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 1:47:44 PM   
gypsygrl


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I don't have a lot of trouble with transparency, in principal.  I have weak ego boundaries anyway (and I would imagine that would be a plus in certain kinds of power exchanges) and don't have alot to worry about anymore.  Openness is pretty much my default mode, though I do understand that there is such a thing as too much information.

I do have trouble finding the words to express my thoughts and feelings and expressing them in a way that makes sense for anyone else.

The one thing that makes me less than open is fear.  If I'm feeling insecure in a relationship, either physically or emotionally, I tend to shut down. 

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 2:08:25 PM   
lizcgirl


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No secrets, total honesty, no matter what the thought or feeling. That's what I give to Daddy because He expects it. I am a very emotional person- I have a quick temper and I get mad over nothing and I know it when it happens but it doesn't stop it from happening all the same. I try to keep my mouth shut and keep my anger or worries to myself but He won't let me. It's a good thing He doesn't, otherwise I sit and fester until whatever little snag bothered me 'just a little' turns into a huge deal. Giving yourself means all of you, good, bad, irrational, whatever. If you try and keep parts of yourself away from Him, then you are denying Him what you offered. It isn't easy, so many times I want to sit and sulk or keep that private thought to myself, but when I let Him see me completely, I am so much happier than when I try and keep a piece of me hidden.

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Never make some one a priority when all you are to them is an option.


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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 2:28:22 PM   
HerLord


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Edited to correct poster.  :)

_____________________________

"People as a whole think they want to hear the truth, until they hear it." -Stormism

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 2:29:20 PM   
StormsSlave


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Thank you all for your incredibly insightful and honest answers.  I have even more food for brain fodder, so I now have something to think about at work tonight, the last night before my well-earned vacation.  I am definitely going to respond to some of these posts, so I'll talk to you all in the morning. 

_____________________________

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--nobody's resident anything.

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RE: Transparency - 5/7/2008 2:38:44 PM   
littleone35


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 I feel i am very transparent to my Master.  He can tell when something is wrong even when i don't ay anything about it.  He gets into my head.  I think he knows me better than i know myself.  Like i said to a friend today he just "gets" me.

Matt's littleone

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 4:04:02 AM   
StormsSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Emotional transparency is what we strive for. And being an intensely private person, it's damned difficult. At the same time, it is because I am so intensely private that I yearn to be known completely, understood completely and loved fully anyway. And that's the crux of it, that he will know the parts of me I am ashamed of and love them. That he doesn't love me despite my faults but because of them.

Oh, sub here, not slave.


I have never thought of it this way, and I have to admit I kind of like it.  I spent a portion of my workday today thinking this over.  Thanks for the insight, and the food for thought.

_____________________________

Congratulate me...I'm a missus!!

--nobody's resident anything.

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 4:07:23 AM   
StormsSlave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

And for the dom(mes): How much transparency do you desire and require?  Does it make mastering your sub/slave less complicated?  Do you prefer they come to you with raw emotion then return with calm thoughts, or would you prefer they think things through before any discussion?

I thank you in advance for any light you might shine on this with your willingness to share.


For me, privacy isn't really an option. I'm basically a mind-reader; if I get to know you (and I have to if I'm involved with you!), I will develop an almost uncanny ability to know exactly what you are thinking and feeling and the whys and wherefores of that. I can't help myself...I actually try NOT to do this at times, but I am so sensitive to things like tone of voice, body language, word usage (or avoidance), etc, that I unconsciously build an understanding of the way someone's mind works in such fine detail that I can often speak what they are thinking in a situation word-for-word. I'm not perfect, of course, and some stuff certainly does get by me (usually detailed specifics, though, I pretty much always have a fairly accurate picture of overall situation.)
It's NOT easy to live with, though, for the right sort of person, it can be quite thrilling to have someone know you so well. So I specifically try to look for people who are okay with this; "I'm a private person" is something I would react to with this explanation.
I insist on complete openness in my relationships, partly because I can't really function any other way, but also because I do strongly prefer it. It's also very stressful for me to be getting one message from someone's mouth and another from their body/brain. (This is actually why I have some social issues. A certain amount of "perceptiveness" is considered a positive trait, but I have a lot of trouble gauging how much is too much or too little, so I frequently come across as either thick or a threat. Mostly was a problem in work situations, which is why I do much better as a SAHM.) Don't make me pretend not to know what I know, you know? It's like asking someone to act like they are less intelligent or skilled than they are, even worse on a long-term basis.
As to some of what you've said...even though I know what's going on in his head, there are plenty of times where I will wait till he has his thoughts in order before addressing an issue. I know the difference between raw, unconsidered emotion and processed emotion, and I adjust for that accordingly.
Life with me is very, very intimate. For some, it's great, for others, it's not their thing, and that's okay.


In truth, I am way more transparent to My Lord for this very reason.  It's something I may have actually started to take a little bit for granted.  He sees through me, so why tell him?  Our life together is also incredibly intimate, as we are each others own best friends.  He also gives me time to process emotions as long as I am upfront that, yes, something is bothering me, but I'm not ready to discuss it yet. Thanks so much for sharing.

_____________________________

Congratulate me...I'm a missus!!

--nobody's resident anything.

(in reply to DominantJenny)
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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 4:12:08 AM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

I'm not talking about open communication about thoughts and feelings, as that's a given when it's important to do so.  I'm talking about complete, upfront transparency with your partner. 

My questions are these.
As a slave/sub, are you required in your relationship to be completely "transparent?"    Do you find it difficult to do so?  My initial emotions are often changed in the light of clear thought.  Do you approach your dom/master with your feelings before you determine if they are justified, or do you speak out of emotion and then reapproach him/her after you've thought things through?




Let me preface this by saying ... in my experience

Being transparent has a very vague dividing line. If I am not somewhat private, I overshare and it becomes burdensome on the other person. If I am too private, I way undershare, which is the same burden. Finding a happy medium can be difficult.

I don't like the feeling I get when I'm being transparent and sharing everything because it feeds my tendency to be codependent (and my high need for congruity really balks at not having the same consideration in return, which also feeds my codepedent tendencies, even after a lot of therapy ... but at least I can recognize it when I feel it now).

Being asked to be transparent makes me feel great, initially. If, however, after a time he is not responding well, and not sharing in return, I get clingy and unsure of myself. So, for me, being transparent isn't the best option, which I explain up front. It's far healthier for me to maintain some distance and privacy so that I can process and make decisions about appropriate sharing.

Interesting topic.


Thanks for sharing so openly.  I think I am closer to this camp.  Even though he can see inside my head, it seems, I like to maintain the sometimes-illusion-sometimes reality that I am alone in my thoughts.  I fear that I will become too dependent on sharing, and maybe too open?  anyway, keeping distance is important for me, but only long enough to make sure that I am not venting as much as I am contributing to the relationship.  If it's not helping anyone, why bother.

_____________________________

Congratulate me...I'm a missus!!

--nobody's resident anything.

(in reply to batshalom)
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