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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 4:16:42 AM

StormsSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...
what He doesn't get is yelled at, disrespected, mocked or anger thrown in His direction, regardless of the impetus. if that is what this slave is feeling, she can keep that to herself, or channel that somewhere else. He is not this slave's emotional punching bag for whatever happens in her life that causes her to feel anger.

we have never spoken of what is required of this slave as "transparency". we refer to it as being respectfully open and honest.

No one in any part of a relationship should be the emotional punching bag for anyone. I wonder, how do you express your anger? Of course, without disrespecting your master or yelling, but surely, you must feel anger? How is that handled for you, and from emotional resource do you draw to control yourself? While My Lord and I do occasionally raise our voices with one another, respecting one another is important to us, so we do try to control our words, if not our tone. It sounds as if you're describing a very contructive way to deal, and I'd be interested to hear more.

Thanks so much for responding.

< Message edited by StormsSlave -- 5/8/2008 4:17:36 AM >

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 4:21:55 AM

StormsSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

As you know, I'm totally transparent to him. We don't really talk about being transparent, but this is required of me and at this point, the only way I can operate. I can only deal with truth, even if it is hard, raw truth that neither of us likes. There is no such thing as telling him "too much" (his opinion) so I share everything I think and feel about my slavery, me, him, and our relationship. This is how he knows my mind well enough to manage me as he does. The level that is "appropriate" for me, is the more the better. This leaves no guess work, and educates him on not only what I am thinking and feeling, but how I think and feel.

Thanks for responding.

I'd be interested in knowing, how hard a process was it for you to become transparent? Was this something that took work, or did it just begin to flow naturally and you both grew with it? Was the requirement there first, or was the inclination there and the actual act more incremental?

Again, thanks for sharing. I always enjoy your insight.

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 4:34:19 AM

StormsSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think people who make a big deal out of "transparency" are the ones who tend to have the weakest communication skills and security level in their relationships. People should be open to eachoher, and of course a slave needs to be informing their master on whatever level is appropriate, but the more you have to force it or talk about it, the less you're actually just doing it.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1464297/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#1464588
Using your submissives thoughts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_902189/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#902281
The hurdles of transparency

http://www.collarchat.com/m_637957/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#637994
Transparency button

http://www.collarchat.com/m_287507/mpage_1/key_transparency/tm.htm#287559
Transparency

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts, and doing this additional research for us all. I had actually read these threads, and I'm sure that others here will find them useful.

It sounds to me that you feel as if those who are actively striving to acheive transparency are posing. (?) I apologize if that's a wrong impression, but that is the impression I've gotten. Why do you feel that way? Is it from personal experience, or from watching the experience of others? Since communication is key in any relationship, I think it's fair to say that any successful couple already has open communication. However, do you think it's unreasonable or unrealistic for a master to expect a higher level of communication from his sub, or for a sub to be prepared to accomodate such a request? I know that in my relationship we are very open and very honest, to the point of brutality, and yet, neither of us can say that we share every single feeling and thought with one another. For me, transparency to the degree described by my friend is not realistic or practical. Do you feel this is a unrealistic expectation for the world as a whole, or just for you and yours?

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 5:52:25 AM

MasterFireMaam

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I expect a certain level or degree of transparency in my household. I also give an equal level. I know that I can get more than I give with a simple order.

You have to understand the definition of what transparency means for each person, though, in order to judge if it's right for you or not. I know household were NOTHING is hidden...the bathroom door even stays open, and not only for the slaves. I know households where the slave knows very little about what goes on in their Master's life. But, most households I know are somewhere in between.

For me, the word transparency is equivalent to emotional vulnerability. How vulnerable are you will to be for your partner? I open myself up pretty far in meaningful relationships. I'm the happiest when that's requited.

Master Fire

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 6:48:51 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

I wonder, how do you express your anger? Of course, without disrespecting your master or yelling, but surely, you must feel anger? How is that handled for you, and from emotional resource do you draw to control yourself?

SS,
This is Merc, I'll give you my answer. beth will respond after she brings me my morning coffee.

In our 5+ years of knowing each other we've been angry many times; but I can't remember one time when we've been angry at each other. I know we've used each other to vent the anger we feel about others or situations out of our control, but there's never been a time where anger was directed toward each other. I'd attribute this to two things.

The first I think is most important - beth only serves one Master - me. There is no job, no other outside distraction or outside focus that creates conflict and can be a cause for anger. Some may say we are fortunate to have that situation, but it was the result of planning - not luck.

The second thing is that the first sentence in the previous paragraph is wrong. There is another that we both serve - Merc & beth. The responsibility to that 'person' supersedes any other. We both believe and live by that philosophy. We don't sweat the small shit.

We're a confident couple. A result of coming together as confident individuals. I've seen beth angry and I know she's seen me angry. We don't let those occasions pass unnoticed. Most often I provide a preemptive comment like "I'm pissed at (fill in the blank)!", she'll ask if there's anything she can do - or better yet - take off her top (if she's wearing one), cup her breasts and say; "can these make you feel better?"; and next thing you know - I'm not so angry anymore.

As you say - we all feel anger, but why should it be directed to your partner? Your partner should be a source of calming that anger. Your relationship should be a calming influence. Life will piss you off! The dog may not make it outside to pee. You can develop a stress fracture in your foot that prohibits you from wearing high heels. You can 'total' a two month old car. Get mad at the situation; your partner had nothing to do with it. Ideally he/she will help you laugh and realize how it doesn't, and shouldn't effect your relationship.

Most anger is a result of conflicting opinion, conflicting goals, ego, or selfishness. As has been said so many times, communication eliminates most of these problems. It doesn't mean that you have to agree about everything, or agree about anything. It means only that you respect each others different opinions. The agreement on goals is usually the hardest obstacle to overcome. If beth has a personal goal - a career or some other job path; we would never be together today. That was one of the many sacrifices she made.

Ego and selfishness disappear when the focus is transfered from self to the partnership. If you can't make that transition you'll forever have conflict. This doesn't mean you lose yourself or your soul; just the opposite - It means those things are enhanced. You are 'completed' by the relationship, not lost in it.

quote:

...but surely, you must feel anger?

yes, but in 5+ years, He has not disrespected this slave, ignored her needs, misrepresented Himself or caused this slave to be arrested...so what else is there to get pissed about? seriously.

the situations Master described above regarding the dog, the foot and the car actually happened...and it did inspire anger, but not at Him.

this slave has expectations regarding the dog, her feet and her driving abilities.

the feet, the car & the dog ALL belong to Master, but they are operated and maintained by the slave---it's not His fault when they fuck up, but hers.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/8/2008 7:04:16 AM >

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 8:01:50 PM

StormsSlave

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quote:

The second thing is that the first sentence in the previous paragraph is wrong. There is another that we both serve - Merc & beth. The responsibility to that 'person' supersedes any other. We both believe and live by that philosophy. We don't sweat the small shit.

Thank you, both of you, for your outstanding responses and for taking the time to clarify. This of yours that I have quoted stands out for me most of all. We follow a philosophy of, "worship the relationship," and we try to keep in the forefront of our lives at all times the sacred nature of our relationship, and never allow it to be sacrificed on the ego of self. We rarely argue with one another. Like you, one of us is usually angry at something, someone else, or a situation if we get angry. Neither of us takes the other's anger personally, or takes it out on each other, and like you, we try to help. I've used beth's method of "helping" more than once myself. I find that this pair of breasts has quite a calming effect on the anger of the situation.

We are, however, a work in progress, and find we'd rather be with each other then most anyone in the world. We do argue, usually because we misunderstand each other. However, My Lord and I hold each other in the highest regard, and our respectful words and actions don't cease just because our voices are raised. He would never disrespect me in public or private, and to do so to him would be as if doing it to myself.

One thought, or perhaps quesiton, about being completed by the relationship. I was complete before this relationship. As was My Lord. We came into this attracted to one another's completeness, and the fact that neither of us was seeking to fill a void in ourselves with the other. Neither of us is "lost" in the relationship; we have become more than we are because of it. What we have together has contributed to the value of ourselves as individuals. Is this the same as what you are trying to communicate, or is it that in your situation, you were in need of one another to complete yourselves individually?

These insights of yours will definitely increase my own understanding. I so appreciate your taking the time to sincerely answer my questions and help me understand something that without the input of others I could not understand; and possibly understand myself better because of it.

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RE: Transparency - 5/8/2008 10:30:43 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave
Thanks for responding. I'd be interested in knowing, how hard a process was it for you to become transparent? Was this something that took work, or did it just begin to flow naturally and you both grew with it? Was the requirement there first, or was the inclination there and the actual act more incremental?

Again, thanks for sharing. I always enjoy your insight.

It was a really difficult process for me to become completely open to him. My history gave me no reason to trust others with my heart. My vulnerability was always used to my disadvantage and I was never not greatly hurt as a result. I had pretty much stopped communicating about myself as a general rule. Then along came this man who not only encouraged, but required me to tell him everything - everything! It scared me to death. I had been knocked down enough that I was terrified about telling him something he wouldn't like, or something that would upset him.

He always assured me he might not like what I am thinking or feeling, but he still needs to know it. And over time, he proved himself to be safe with my heart. He is tough with me, but he has always been safe. In time I came to communicate without fear and much more easily. Now I can only operate in truth - however ugly or hard it might be, or however too-good-to-be-true it might seem. The consequences of truth are always better than those of untruth, and omitting the truth is being untruthful.

The requirement was always there. The ease in which I was able to fulfill it took time.

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RE: Transparency - 5/9/2008 6:50:32 AM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

And for the dom(mes): How much transparency do you desire and require? Does it make mastering your sub/slave less complicated? Do you prefer they come to you with raw emotion then return with calm thoughts, or would you prefer they think things through before any discussion?

I desire and require complete Transparency from my girls. However Transparency doesn't mean that they can express their thoughts and feelings in any old way they choose... Even the most negative feelings and thoughts can be expressed constructively and not destructively. Being held accountable to be Constructively Transparent is not unreachable. As a note... Raw emotion doesn't equate to it being destructive... it can be expressed constructively no less that calm thougths.

Secondly, Transparency is neccessary in my world so that I can make the best possible decisions for the relationship. If I don't have all the information.. their is an increased risk that the wrong decision will be made. I don't like making the wrong choice.

Lastly, I would add.. that Transparency is not a M/s thing. Transparency can be useful and desired in any relationship structure for those that want it.

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RE: Transparency - 5/9/2008 12:12:08 PM

chamberqueen

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Someone else had in their post the idea of barriers coming down. That's how I feel about myself. I become more transparent as trust grows, but I will never be one to immediately say whatever pops into my head. I am guarded, and sometimes become frustrated when I don't fully understand a situation. (An example of this - not receiving a phone call after one is promised. If I was totally transparent I could go on and on about how much it hurt my feelings, how trust just got backed off a step, how it made me wonder what value our relationship had in His eyes, etc., but the better course for me is to calm down, see what happened, and be understanding. It isn't a repeating pattern, just a one time thing, and there is no reason for me to go ballistic over it.)

If I am specifically asked what I am thinking then I will respond, though I may still choose to hold some back until I am ready to share it. This is my own internal fear coming out of a past with an abusive father and then an abusive husband. I could literally get punished for what I was thinking. Ask me for a statement of fact and I am right on it. Ask me for a statement of my emotions and it is much more difficult for me. I am fortunate that my Master understands this and is working patiently with me to get me to open up more, but He will never expect me to be totally transparent.

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RE: Transparency - 5/9/2008 1:40:47 PM

StormsSlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

And for the dom(mes): How much transparency do you desire and require? Does it make mastering your sub/slave less complicated? Do you prefer they come to you with raw emotion then return with calm thoughts, or would you prefer they think things through before any discussion?

I desire and require complete Transparency from my girls. However Transparency doesn't mean that they can express their thoughts and feelings in any old way they choose... Even the most negative feelings and thoughts can be expressed constructively and not destructively. Being held accountable to be Constructively Transparent is not unreachable. As a note... Raw emotion doesn't equate to it being destructive... it can be expressed constructively no less that calm thougths.

Secondly, Transparency is neccessary in my world so that I can make the best possible decisions for the relationship. If I don't have all the information.. their is an increased risk that the wrong decision will be made. I don't like making the wrong choice.

Lastly, I would add.. that Transparency is not a M/s thing. Transparency can be useful and desired in any relationship structure for those that want it.

Knight,
Thanks for responding. This makes a lot of sense to me, actually. My Lord says that things are going the way he wants them to, anyway, so he doesn't see the point of pushing it. I'd have to agree that I am very open to him, and increasingly share my thoughts and feelings with him.

I have one obstacle with the bringing of raw emotion to him, however. We are one another's best friends. The emotion(s) I express may hurt him, even when constructively stated, and may not be what I am truly upset with in the long run, since I know that sometimes I need time to pin down what it is I really feel. I am extremely careful about the potential of creating the little cracks in relationship that later accumulate and become a big hole. I am sometimes entirely not great at expressing myself. shrug. It happens. To hurt him NEEDLESSLY is not something I ever, ever desire to do. Should I let him take that risk, if he so chooses? Perhaps at some point we will evolve to the point where I can believe it won't hurt us, but I admit to not being there, yet.

Does it happen sometimes for your household that emotions first expressed are not the core of the matter for the members of your household? When this happens, do you recognize it in the initial discussions on the matter, or only acknowledge them when they come back around? You've given me a different way of looking at the matter. Not surprisingly, this topic has generated a significant amount of discussion in this household, and I think we are growing because of it. Thank you for this very thought provoking addition to the conversation.

edited to add: transparency, like almost anything, can be part of any relationship, of course. It seems to be more prevelant here, however, or maybe I'm just spending too much time here these days.

< Message edited by StormsSlave -- 5/9/2008 1:49:30 PM >

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RE: Transparency - 5/9/2008 2:53:01 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave

Does it happen sometimes for your household that emotions first expressed are not the core of the matter for the members of your household?

oh yes...but it is necessary to deal with those intial emotions in a constructive manner... just because they are not a core of the issue... they are often reflective of the core and can become a distraction if allowed to fester.

quote:

When this happens, do you recognize it in the initial discussions on the matter, or only acknowledge them when they come back around? You've given me a different way of looking at the matter. Not surprisingly, this topic has generated a significant amount of discussion in this household, and I think we are growing because of it. Thank you for this very thought provoking addition to the conversation.

Seldom is an issue ever a single discussion... particularly if intense emotions are attached to it. It's a slow pealing of the onion and yes sometimes it might be hurtful for everyone involved.

It is easy to say be transparent... but much more difficult to do so. Generally one needs to build alot of trust to get there... particularly when one can be said will cause hurt for the person listening. You need to have trust that such issues will not negatively affect the relationship.. you have to have trust that what you feel and think... regardless how irrational it might be in the moment will not affect the love and commitment your partner has for you. It has been my experience when I am able to be a sponge and listen to the feelings and thougths of my two wonderful girls... EVEN when they are negative and even hurtful to me.. and I refuse to judge negatively but allow it to come out so we can talking openly... the rewards are amazing. I walked the talked! and as such it has been very rewarding for me. In other words... Telling a person's slave/submissive to be transparent is only part of the issue... one needs to be able to listen constructively just as much as one needs to express feelings and thougths constructively.

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