Forced Sessions (Full Version)

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hsspode -> Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 10:45:59 AM)

I always found the term forced to be a little un-forced.  If a slave likes to dress as a fem or strap-on, could it really be forced?  Forced to me would be putting a completely hetero slave in unescapable bondage, then taking a strap-on to him with great enthusiasm despite his screams of mercy.  Maybe taking a slave who does not enjoy putting on women's clothing, and blackmailing him to go outside or else you will tell his boss or family what he is doing.  Maybe I don't quite understand what exactly happens in a forced session good enough to place judgement on the term....



Shawn1066 -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 10:50:38 AM)

Slaves who like strap-ons aren't completely hetero? o_O

Well, regardless, what you describe would be rape.  Rape is illegal.

DV's Fox



Wheldrake -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 10:59:10 AM)

quote:



Well, regardless, what you describe would be rape.



Or perhaps just a bit of good, clean, "consensually non-consensual" fun, depending on how it was set up. I wouldn't call it rape if the victim consented at an earlier stage to being put in that position, or even to the possibility of being put in that position.



Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 11:01:11 AM)

Rape is illegal, yes, however, if two people enter a D/s type relationship and rape isn't a limit ....well, you get the picture.

I personally dislike the term 'forced' when being used as a way to justify one's fantasy.  But, if two people are in a relationship and the limits are few, some things may very well go against the submissive's desire for such except as to please their dominant.  They may well see it as being forced.  Forced to comply or risk losing the relationship they desire.



Lynnxz -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 11:06:04 AM)

If you don't call it forced, I think it takes away a lot of the fantasy for some people. Sure, a guy might be willing to do the whole "Forced Bi" thing, but by calling it forced, it's easier to accept it.  Why mess with someones fantasy? It's not bothering you, leave it alone.





AAkasha -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 1:04:39 PM)


I love forced scenarios. That doesn't mean I enjoy doing something against a man's will, though.  Although, a girlfriend and I did KIDNAP a guy in high school (totally against his will) as part of a prank and it was totally hot (no, nothing sexual happened, sorry boys! it was totally harmless) but that's another story...

Anyway -- there's a category of man who will do certain acts (endure a strap on, eat his own cum, etc.) but not willingly, not happily, not eagerly and certainly not for the hell of it.  In his mind, he enjoys the idea of being forced to do it.  Now, what happens in real life is often a different story - there are some men that want the femdom to "pretend" to force him and he's ready to go as soon as she's ready to say "DO IT."  Not that much fun, in my opinion...

But, there's another category of man who really does need to be broken down a bit, persuaded, seduced, or put in an emotional or sexual state where his resistance goes down - and it takes some work. Maybe he needs to be so horny that he will agree to anything.  Maybe he has to be put in a position of suffering until he can't resist any longer.  Maybe he needs to be fucked with, mentally, until he's tricked into it -- he wants it, but he does NOT go down without a fight.  This can be INCREDIBLY hot.   But the total nightmare scenario is a guy that is truly, horribly ambivalent and full of self hatred over the idea of it -- he has to really be ok with the idea that he WILL be forced..and that he does want it, on some level. All this baggage needs to be sorted out ahead of time to ensure there's no yucky feelings afterward.

Then there's coercion.  And seduction.  Is it unethical?  Well, to some, sure.  I have seduced and coerced a lot of "hesitant" men into doing a lot of "things" they did not sign up for -- like getting fucked with a strap on or eating his cum or doing embarassing things in front of my female friends.  We're talking vanilla guys here.  They laugh when I bring it up, then two weeks later they are sucking my strap on and begging for it in their ass.  Is this unethical?  Some people think so -- personally, I think it's just incredibly HOT.  On some level, I'm most into my predatory side of domination, and that includes the process of seducing a man to agree to things he finds unnatural or scary.  There is NO DOUBT that when the moment comes that he's staring at that strap on that he is ready to take it and wants it and will beg for more -- but it takes some seduction to get him to that point, it takes trust, and it takes a LOT of sexual arousal.  They like it once they try it. Some people call this "converting" guys.  And no, I have never seduced a man into kink and then the next day they get mad and feel betrayed. Men LOVE it when a woman is confident in her sexuality, is kinky, and enjoys and introduces him to acts he found unthinkable.  And it takes a good screening process up front -- trust me, I have passed on guys that were hot but I knew based on their personalities they'd NEVER take it up the ass.  But lots of confident guys who scoff at the idea of strap ons eventually learn to love it.

Akasha



Decimus -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 3:09:51 PM)

I agree with both the original poster and with Lynnxz. As with the original poster, I do not agree that there is such a thing as "consensual forced". Either it is consensual in one way shape or form or it is forced, eg rape. However I also agree with Lynnxz if someone wants to call it that for their own mind, then by all means go for it...how many other words or sayings are used incorrectly ever day? Every hear someone say "ignant" or "ignorant" to mean stupid? It doesn't it means lack of knowledge, they are just showing their ignorance for proper grammar and word choice.

Miss AAkasha I'd love to hear that story about the guy in your high school some time, I'm sure it is interesting.

There are many different people in the world. People may see an action as rape and others as "consensually being forced" and others who just see it as consensual. Still others in the world may actually really want to be raped. Its a crazy world out there.

Myself well I'm unique and very different. I see what was listed above as consensual as I mentioned however I also do want to be raped by a woman. (Yes it is possible for a woman to rape a man without using a strap on. It is not required that the man even be a virgin however that would also be true in my case.)

I apologize if anyone has been traumatized by rape in the past, I am by no means trying to insult you or belittle you or shame you in any way. I am fully aware that a woman being raped by a man has more consequences than a man being raped by a woman. That being said I feel any man who rapes a woman should be killed in a most brutal fashion.



MladyHathor -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 3:16:01 PM)

Well you'll get some interesting responses, Im sure---but I agree with you, forced isn't forced I'm sure and if it was, well we'd see some kind of repercussion--but it is a fantasy--the whole yes. no, yes no, no, yes scenario.
 
I always say be careful what you wish for--



RumpusParable -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 4:59:34 PM)

I've strong opinions on the (over/mis-)use of the word "forced" in, most often, bi and fem situations but also in any it is applied to.

Can such play be forced?  Yes, both in the nonconsensual manner and in the over-riding consent manner.  Meaning, it can be "force" play if the person doesn't like it, doesn't crave it, but goes through it while honoring the over-riding consent given in the relationship.  Example:  sub hates strap-on but his domme loves it, their agreement is close to TPE and so he goes through it against his desires because she decides he will.  By honoring his greater "yes" he is forced to submit to something he'd prefer "no" to.

However, yes, a lot of "forced-______" is actually just supporting or encouraging a sub/bottom to fullfill a role or fantasy that they aren't completely opposed to, interested a good bit in, or (in many cases, and here in lies my pet peeve) they are completely consumed by and they mis-label it "forced" though it's harder to get them NOT to do it than to do it.



submale4u2spank -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 6:55:08 PM)

It is acting, the force is in the "scene."



ShaktiSama -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 7:03:42 PM)

There is a bell curve of coercion in BDSM, and some people are much more "forced" by their dominants than others.  It is far too mandarin for me to sort the whole thing out, really, but on one hand of the spectrum you might place a man or a woman with a "forced bi" fantasy who craves the scenario so badly that they're basically trying to strong-arm the dominant into fulfilling that fantasy for them...and on the other end of the spectrum you have the man or woman barely containing their revulsion as they live through a horrible sexual experience with a person of the same sex, for no other reason than because it turns their dominant on, and they were commanded to obey.

Many submissives endure horrible experiences for their dominants and are happy precisely because the experience is horrible!  Many others just need someone else to take moral responsibility for their sexuality.  Either way...meh.  Not my thing.



Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/7/2008 7:34:01 PM)

Limits can be pushed; I don't like to push hard limits, though.  I know that I'd be really mad/scarred for life if I told someone that scat was a hard limit and then they took a shit on my chest, so I figure I can afford another person that same courtesy.  Just because something isn't a hard limit, though, doesn't mean that it's not forcing someone to do it.

Example: my boy is completely hetero.  He has no interest or desire to have sex with another man.  However, if I tied him up and brought home another man to fuck his mouth or his ass, he would endure it because I told him to, regardless of whether or not it was something he enjoyed.  Still counts as forced, still pretty hot in my book.





tight57cd -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/8/2008 7:45:49 PM)

for me forced is many thngs. Forced femme can be where the day you decide you do not want to be forced is the day you could/would be. And the outcome might not be waht you expected. As in forced bi, forced chasity or more. For me hearing my own muffled cries under a nice tight fitting hood and gag while dressed as a femme and then strap, well !!!!!!!



needDomme -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/10/2008 9:33:26 AM)

Dear Ms Akasha,

You have incredible insight into the male psych. I can't believe how well a woman can understand a man's mind as well as you do. I know because I fall into the category of men who would never partake of certain "disgusting" activities. The right Domme, however, could get me to do just about anything and I would enjoy doing it and get off on it because she was powerful enough to force me. Afterward, I would feel so very content, satisfied and loved. Oh, and owned too!

need




Dilseachd -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/10/2008 1:02:39 PM)

I have always been of the opinion that if you want to do something then you cant really be "forced" to do it.  I have had this discussion a number of times over the years and I have heard many of the responses seen on this thread. 

Overall the predominant notion that has come from my discussion of this with alot of Dominants has been guilt re-association.  They feel like when someone lets it be known they want to be forced into something its because the submissive really feels alot of guilt about that desire.  So by submitting to someone who will "force" them to do the act the guilt and responsibility of the act is now pushed off onto the "mean evil dominant" who "made" them do it. 

As for myself...I have been in TPE relationships where I was forced to endure things that were not limits that I certainly did not enjoy.  Be it just a harsh pushing of physical limits during percussion play or having to drive across town in rush hour traffic to fetch something...yea...there are more ways to "force" someone than just fetishes and play. *chuckles*  So it is possible to "force" someone even in a situation where they have agreed to things.  I do like the term presented here earlier "consentual non-consent"..it is a term I have used often.   I also agree that the illusion of force in some situations you are not totally comfortable in can be extremely exciting and erotic.

Just my thoughts.

Regards to all,
Dils



kickable -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/10/2008 6:55:03 PM)

I want to contribute to this discussion.
My own thoughts are coincide with Akasha's.
If not forced, then coerced, persuaded, pressured, intimidated or other words could be used, and the act still be consensual.
In my own case, Female Domme's have for years wanted me to be bi. Some said no personal relationship without becoming bi. Another dumped me because she was pissed I declined a bi experience.
Could a Domme, under some circumstances, convince me to change my mind and persuade me to accept the act? It's something I wouldn't even think about without my focus on Female Domination. It did take a long time to admit to myself that I even thought about such an experience.
Therefore, I can see where other guys would have accepted some experience for the love of their Mistress, or after some disciplining and submitting, to not disappoint their Mistress, to please their Mistress -- and in doing sell truly believed they were forced, even though it was consensual.
Would it a betrayal of a Domme to perform a ``forced bi'' session, then laugh and deny it was forced? I agree with Akasha that there should be careful scrutiny of the sub to ensure the act would not be something horribly regretted later. But it would be good if the Mistress accepted some responsibility that her dominance, persuasion and afffection played a role.
In my own experience, I've admitted to Female Dominants that while submitting to them, they could make me, but I would rather they did not.



iwearpanties -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/11/2008 11:13:50 AM)

as a sub male i will agree is it realy forced when you have likes or wants to do things  and have   tryed or have done it ?  one of the forced things i have done was i had a Mistress some yrs ago and she knew of my wearing panties and crossdressing but i also wanted it with domination and spanking and other  thigns you do in   sessions with Mistresses and like many or most subs and Mistress  pushing limts and doing more each time keeps you on edges and wanting more . the point im getting to is like many masculine males who wear or crossdress for fun and enjoyable times i was exposed to another male while in a females dress and under it i was in panties and bra and garter and stockings i had clue she was going too push this limit for me being that i was a closet panty, cder. I soon found myself  as a  forecd too be a sisy man infront of this other Male who wasn't submissve at all more a Dom type but he enjoyed seeing my tourment as male with no make up and clearly not passble .. this was a true forced exposure for me as a male crossdressed before another male  a limt i have long feared of but  it was a very enjoyable time to realy feel this was my   so called forced in the d/s world of fun



MisPandora -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/11/2008 3:44:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hsspode

I always found the term forced to be a little un-forced.  If a slave likes to dress as a fem or strap-on, could it really be forced?  Forced to me would be putting a completely hetero slave in unescapable bondage, then taking a strap-on to him with great enthusiasm despite his screams of mercy.  Maybe taking a slave who does not enjoy putting on women's clothing, and blackmailing him to go outside or else you will tell his boss or family what he is doing.  Maybe I don't quite understand what exactly happens in a forced session good enough to place judgement on the term....

Given that one of the tenets of what we do in BDSM rides on the concept of and granting of CONSENT, it makes this little fantasy play of "forced" anything really a misnomer.



bownow -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/11/2008 4:28:25 PM)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



undergroundsea -> RE: Forced Sessions (5/17/2008 7:56:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hsspode
I always found the term forced to be a little un-forced. 


I see it differently. I think in some cases this point might apply whereas in others it does not. The scenarios described suggest that forced can only be if the activity is non-consensual. I think one can have forced scenarios in consensual activities.

The forced nature of an activity can simply be by virtue of an order--it is not essential to have elabroate, immediate means to create compulsion.

I recall a forum discussion elsewhere where a man clarified that he does not otherwise enjoy bisexuality but enjoys being forced into it by his domme for the submission it represents. Similarly, a man might not enjoy licking the ground otherwise but might enjoy it under the context of dominance. In each case, it is not the activity that the person enjoys but being forced to do something that is otherwise unpleasant for that person--and the submission it thus represents--is what creates the appeal.

To take a physical parallel, because one enjoys being beaten does not mean that the strikes do not create pain. Similarly, in forced scenarios that are enjoyed there might be physical or emotional discomfort. The gratification of submission outweighs this discomfort in forced scenarios that are enjoyed.

To say absolutely that forced scenarios are not really forced then can suggest that submission is not really submission if it is volunteered, and disagreement with such an idea helps convey my point.

Cheers,

Sea



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